The Questions They STILL Won’t Answer...(probably be cause they can't)

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[DarthVader]

There have been several posts asking questions of those who support Mark and believe his innocence (I support him as a person, a brother in Christ, believe he has done many good things, helped many people, but do not believe his innocence).  Most often after poking some holes in a few things Suzanne has said, not wrongly btw, what she says should be subject to a high level of scrutiny, they then quickly retreat to silence when it comes to the hard questions for their narrative.  While we are all (not) patiently waiting for the results of the investigation (as we should be, myself included), I thought it might be helpful to post those questions and see if those supporting Mark's innocence are willing to share their answers, beyond just poking holes in Suzanne's narrative (justified as that is).  If you want to post those questions of what Suzanne (or others) have said, in a separate thread, I'd do my best to share my thoughts on the answers..But how about sharing your thoughts on below?

1. Heidi says she clearly recalls the fireplace working, has spoken to multiple people who agree.  She was in her 20's, having babysat for the Darlings in the late 80's while the oldest of Mark's kids would be well under 10.  Is Heidi lying or just mistaken?  

2. Do you believe what Natalie described happened?  Long walks in the woods alone with an ECC pastor of the opposite sex with said pastor describing his sex drive?  If not, what credibility issues does Natalie have, in your view?  Does it matter what this behavior is labeled? If you believe her, is it okay if ECC pastors are actively doing similar things today?  Have the acceptable standards of pastoral conduct at ECC changed over time? If Natalie is trying to exploit this story for fame, why is it not mentioned on her blog or FB page?

3. Do you believe fox9 when they said they spoke to another "victim" who recounted sharing details of her honeymoon sex with Mark and who felt manipulated into doing so?  Do you hold her anonymity against her credibility, even if she has fully disclosed identify to Fox9 and the ECC investigator?  If so, why?

4. Is it okay that ECC stated in their tweet that they gave a "gift" of $1M to John and Suzanne to "follow their dream"?  Why didn't they apologize to Suzanne when they issued an apology statement to the congregation for their misleading tweet?  

5. Mark has to my understanding, completely denied all allegations (e.g., he never took walks alone in the woods with Natalie, Suzanne, etc.) - Do you believe his complete denial? If not, is his lack of truthfulness troubling to you?

6. Heidi has an email/letter posted on FB from the early 90's discussing counseling for Mark.  If the "mediator" was "fully satisfied" why does Heidi have this email referencing counseling from the early 90's?

I would be nice, if you chose to respond, to actually answer the questions, vs. deflect by attacking Suzanne (but again, feel free to post another thread doing so, and I'll respond best I can), recounting the list of good things Mark has done (I fully believe he has done whatever good things you might describe), or generally attacking the forum, accusing those on the other side of ill motives (some may absolutely have them), etc.  

[Heidi]

Thank you Darth Vader,

It is very troubling to me that some of the questions I have asked are not being answered.

Holes in Suzanne and Natalie's' stories are scrutinized, but it still does not make the allegations untrue.  One walk in the woods at Fort Snelling or two or twenty.  Does the number matter? 
It was and is inappropriate for a married man in ministry to have interacted with single women this way. 
Again- Mark's behavior is what he is accountable for. 

Mark has not spoken publicially to defend himself in any way.  Did he take walks in the woods with single women?  I remember Mark talking about his Love for Fort Snelling and love for fires in many teachings. He did go there a lot.

Mark has been used by God, but Mark has also hurt and misused his authority as a pastor. 
There is forgiveness for that, but here does need to be true repentance also.
 True repentance- Confess your sins to God and others- in this case- Mark needs to repent before the church that he has hurt,  not just God.  Step back, out of the pulpit and get the healing help needed.  It does not have to be a shaming thing.  True repentance is a beautiful thing.  Like the woman on the news cast stated.  Morally, it is never to late for Evergreen to get things right.  I want God to be glorified in this. 
Heidi

[DarthVader]

As usual, when presented with challenging facts, the silence is deafening....but maybe it's a positive sign that reality is sinking in, common understanding (even if only acknowledged by silence) is starting to build.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

There also seems to have been some sort of coordinated decision not to participate in this forum anymore other than to "bump" positive posts about Mark Darling.  Interesting.

[DarthVader]

At some point soon I fully expect their narrative to switch from “they are all lying” to “Mark’s good intentions went a little too far and were taken the wrong way”. It may have already happened behind the scenes. But that’s just speculation.

[Greentruth]

There also seems to have been some sort of coordinated decision not to participate in this forum anymore other than to "bump" positive posts about Mark Darling.  Interesting.

What is to participate in? Everything you two or so have been caterwauling over has been discussed quite extensively. When the results from the third party independent investigation are revealed, we can move forward from there. Then Rebel can Judge us, oh yeah you redacted that comment. And I say this very sadly,the pain going on with both sides of this issue is obviously horrendous. It hurts my heart to see, especially when a few treat it like a cheap soap opera.  What’s your hurry?  DV Rebel and a couple others, don’t you trust God?  What do you think your accomplishing by mocking others and trying to push for responses that have already been made. Kind of makes me Sick! Another reason I don’t come here, so dark!

[DarthVader]

Welcome back - GT we missed you

[Rebel in a Good Way]

What did I redact, GT?  I used the word judge in another post, but I mean it in the sense of evaluate/assess.  I know you expect the worst from me. It kind of bothers me that you have a face to put with my username since Jeromy doxxed me and you still seem to have such a disdain for me.  I have a picture of you in my head but no idea if it's real. 

I truly hope you will be okay if the investigation does not turn out how you expect.  At least three women who call themselves victims have spoken with Joan.  I am concerned about you if everything you believe about right/ wrong, dark/light gets turned upside down.

And I absolutely trust God.  I also know he allows injustice in our time and some people are untrustworthy.  In the end, he will restore and redeem everything, and I look forward to that beautiful day.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

GT, you aren't the creepy guy that made fake Facebook accounts and posted all over my page, are you? It doesn't seem like you but thought I'd ask.

[HughHoney]

There also seems to have been some sort of coordinated decision not to participate in this forum anymore other than to "bump" positive posts about Mark Darling.  Interesting.

What is to participate in? Everything you two or so have been caterwauling over has been discussed quite extensively.

Where were the answers to Heidi’s questions discussed extensively?

[Greentruth]

GT, you aren't the creepy guy that made fake Facebook accounts and posted all over my page, are you? It doesn't seem like you but thought I'd ask.

Ahhh NO, but I suppose that is another sick smear of some sort?   Social media is sick, big reason I spend very little time on it.

Your response-to someone accusing someone else they where going to burn in hell? Didn’t pay much attention until your post which said you where going to judge all ECC and md supporters words and actions. I see it was gone,and I also saw it was probably a forged message.  I don’t know you, and trust me I have NO desire to. You constantly try and pull people into saying something you can then use against them. Just look at your posts before I responded. Of which I’m done. Your merry little band can continue stimulating each other with what seems to be your life ambitions.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I said I judge (evaluate/assess) each supporter by their own words and actions. Meaning if someone did message Suzanne that she is going to hell, I don't use the terrible action of that person to lump in with all of Mark's supporters and put them all on the level of doing something so hateful.

Writing that to clarify for anyone else, I know you're done with me, GT.

And yes Mark Darling's supporters have been on my Facebook page, which I find creepy.

[Greentruth]

I said I judge (evaluate/assess) each supporter by their own words and actions. Meaning if someone did message Suzanne that she is going to hell, I don't use the terrible action of that person to lump in with all of Mark's supporters and put them all on the level of doing something so hateful.

Writing that to clarify for anyone else, I know you're done with me, GT.

And yes Mark Darling's supporters have been on my Facebook page, which I find creepy.

But you didn’t say (evaluate/assess) and you did assimilate all ECC and md supporters. And I’m assuming that is why you redacted your statement. And the simple fact you jumped on that assessment of who posted what before knowing all the facts made it that much worse. Something that seems to be a commonality for a few. All the more reasoning the argument has been made to wait until all the facts, or at least both sides to be heard before all the accusations get thrown around. MD, the Church, and anyone who supports even the premise of innocence get accused of multiple offenses. And you have been one of the top theorists, mostly from assumptions. I think enough is enough. Let the facts come out, and the results be seen before saying supporters are doing this , or are going to do that. Or the Church is thinking this or going to do that. For goodness sakes give it break already. And I don’t say any of this in anger, as my first post tonight stated, all this caterwauling and assumptions and accusations is so heart breaking.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

This thread is being highjacked from the original intended purpose.  Greentruth, please stop misrepresenting me so I don't need to clarify the wrong things you are writing about me. 

Here is my quote: "I did see that nasty message from Jeromy's mother-in-law written to Suzanne, an alleged victim of clergy sexual misconduct/abuse.  For those who didn't see it, it reads:  "You will burn in HELL!  HOW SICK YOU ARE!  DISGUSTING!" (then a little demon face emoji). 

5.08.18 Edited to add: it has not been verified the message was sent from his mother-in-law's real account.  If she sent that message, terrible.  If someone is pretending to be her and sent that message, terrible and very creepy.

I will say that I judge each ECC/Mark Darling supporters by their own words and actions...and I'll leave it at that for now."

I was responding to the above comment that said "And as we are all sitting here being accused of not being Christians we have Gail Grant (Gretchen’s mom) who knows who will “burn in HELL”.  What I wrote meant that I don't judge (evaluate/assess) all MD supporters by the action of this person. 

Judge truly does have multiple meanings but I will try to be more careful in the future to make sure my word choice isn't confusing.

I didn't redact anything.  I left the original message and made the addition (with a date) for transparency. 

And yes, I have speculated on possible responses by the church.

[DarthVader]

It was a nobel effort RIGW but the reality is some people are just partisan's for lack of a better word. You and I can see Suzanne do something wrong (posting MD on the grace child sex abuser site) and call her on it, while at the same time not believing MD is innocent or that Jeromy's behavior has been disrespectful and problematic in many ways.  Others, unfortunately can only see the world through their lens.  DLM posted "10 reasons I believe Suzanne is lying"..Didn't hear GT complaining about "caterwauling" (her favorite word - it might make a good drinking game challenge)...Jeromy has has posted many hateful things, silence from GT.  She wants to think she's the voice of light in the darkness (her word), but the best response, is probably just to let her think that.

[Greentruth]

If the thread was hijacked it was by you and dv. I was responding to your assumptions why many have chosen not to post here at this time. I saw when your original post was deleted, quite quick I might add, on your statement of judging others. I scanned your posts before commenting and couldn’t find it. Your concerns on social media are well founded, just as one of the founding people of this form attacked MD and his family with totally corrupt and abusive posts. Lot of sick people out there, as I just shared. What goes around comes around. Exactly why I stay away from social media. Anyone can make up anything about whoever they want, and without being exposed if desired. Everyone should take that into account before making accusations off of someone else’s comment or claim that they don’t know first hand.

[DarthVader]

Exactly why I stay away from social media.

This from a "veteran" poster with 51 more posts than me on this forum  (ok, now make that 50 but cut me some slack  )

[araignee19]

A couple points....THERE IS AN ACTIVE INVESTIGATION OCCURRING.  There is much that can't be said because of this.  MD cannot publicly speak because there is an active investigation that is ongoing.  The church leaders cannot say much...because...well you know.  As others have said, the circular discussions are getting old. 

Now this I fully agree with. I don't think it would be bad at all if no more posts were made regarding Mark/Suzanne until after the end of May when we have more info (hopefully). Either side could be surprised at that time by the results, or maybe not. But I think at this point the best thing to do is to wait patiently, think and pray, and allow others to do so as well. If the end of May rolls around, and these questions are still not answered, there is plenty of time in June to pick all this discussion back up.

Now go enjoy some nice weather in the meantime. It won't be here for long