Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
September 21, 2023, 07:28:59 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Poor Theology in GCx Churches  (Read 3629 times)
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« on: January 22, 2021, 06:53:17 pm »

Poor Theology in GCx Churches



Here’s what former members have to say about the Theology in GCx [alias GCI, GCM, GCAC, GCC] Churches.  The reviews below share keen insight into the teachings of GCx Churches.




Finally, I thought that the theology at the conferences was bad. That is actually the main point. It is bad theology that is wrapped in flashy packaging. I think that the movement doesn't have the teachings that will help Christians to grow past a state of immaturity. In order to keep people going, they have these conferences interspersed so that people will continue to have that momentum needed to perform and gain numbers.
-MarthaH



The most telling and repeatable problem is the GC [GCx] reading into the Word and not from the Word.  Take an opinion and add Scripture to make it support your opinion.  Converts to opinions and not to Christ.  This is to some a subtle thing since many people in GC began there as newly saved and don't know any better.  If there's no Holy Spirit dependence, there's no gift of discernment there either.  I saw no mention of the Holy Spirit's power at the GC church I attended.  He (HS) was an afterthought only.  This is scary and a clear indicator of GC's major theological problems from the get-go.
-everythingchrist



He [my husband who was a GCx pastor] was being asked to not teach what he had come to know and believe and knew he should teach.  There was no real unity around the whole Bible but only around certain very basic truths... and... GC core values.  When he began to learn on his own and discovered certain truths and Biblical principles missing in our church he began to talk to the other elders.  This was when it began to get very difficult.  I felt at times like I was in a bad dream.  I was scared. ... This kind of thinking really reflects a lack of confidence in God’s Word and power to change a person’s heart (Romans 1:16; John 17:17) and I believe this is the main root problem in GC.  That’s why there is an overbalance on what we need to do rather than what God does through us as we are believing Him and obedient to His Word...

“Feed My sheep”, Jesus said!  This area of God’s Truth and sound doctrine is the area that my husband has said is the main weak link in GC.  All the gifts in the body are needed for a healthy church, but the gifted teacher types were not encouraged to use their gift of digging in the Word to understand it properly and then teach it fully and accurately to the people. Indeed, many if not most times they have been discouraged from doing so.  He tried to help ones see this but to no avail.  “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” ~ (Hosea 4:6).

My husband and his present co-pastor went to many GC pastors’ conferences in the past.  He said that in all the many years he went to GC pastors’ conferences, the continual emphasis was always on evangelism and relationships ~ he said that there was never even one GC pastors’ conference dedicated to training and encouraging pastors how to faithfully teach the Bible in order to feed the believers.  Remember, most in GC, including leaders, have never heard much, if any, deep, accurate, and thorough Bible teaching themselves.  You were told to be careful not to listen to others outside, especially ones who spoke with strong convictions on the Word.

We began to read other good books about God and godly Christians from the past ~ not just books on evangelism, which was all we really heard recommended...

..once you disagree as a result of growing in your understanding of God’s Word, then you are the problem, you are messing up the unity, you are not humble.  Again it’s their definition of humility  ~ humble and submissive to them, apart from what God’s Word actually says.

One of the charges that are made against ones like us is that “knowledge puffs up”. ... They say that if we spend too much time reading and learning doctrine then we won’t evangelize. ... when ones are ready for the "meat" understanding of certain Biblical doctrines instead of just the "milk" understanding ~ they will be discouraged from learning more about God and His Word in many of the GC churches.

Loving God and His Word first and foremost and rightly dividing it and proclaiming it faithfully and fully was not encouraged and if you questioned them about certain doctrines or the depth of some doctrines you were not humble (to them) and you were causing the difficulty.  That's why GC continues to have so many problems ~ weak, shallow and errant doctrines. ... So when some began to mature and dig deeper into Scripture they became a problem to the ones who did not want to learn and grow in their understanding of God's Word.  The eager learners were "messing up the unity" they were told.  That's why they discouraged people from listening to other teachers, especially really good Bible teachers.  I know of a very important meeting where someone quoted 1st Cor. 1:10 as important to true unity ~ doctrinal unity.  They then read an excellent commentary on that verse from a well respected and highly skilled expositor.  They were told that it didn't really mean doctrinal unity.  They were told that it meant just getting along with one another relationally. Then a very important national leader actually said "What is truth?"  He was basically mocking the others' desire for unity around the truth and quoted Pilate to do it!  That is very scary to hear coming from any professing Christian pastor.  
-Truth Lover



...leaders who, when questioned on specific topics in the Bible, actually knew very little about the Bible outside of certain favorite verses and themes...
-Huldah



So we tried The Rock again at the Urban Refuge. We went to a couple services and they where okay. This lead me to start listening to the podcasts from the pastor's sermons online. So I listened to them for a whole week at work. So about 8 hours a day for 5 days straight. And that was when I noticed things were off. First thing I noticed was he rarely preached from scripture and most of his sermon seemed opinionated with some biblical stuff sprinkled in. A lot of it was I did this, my family does this, my kids do this, followed by you should too. It all seemed very self righteous to me and I didn't feel like I was learning anything. ... And I said self, I can't listen to this anymore it feels self righteous and shaming. So then as I do sometimes, I said self. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this. And then the googling began. And here I am..
-Mr.Guy



The pastor had a heart for the lost but doctrinally was a mixed bag which resulted in nothing but confusion and YEARS of spiritual and mental agony for me. Despite being one who truly hungered and thirsted to be righteous before God, within a few years I was reduced to despair, despondency, apathy and temptations to suicide. By God's grace I know now this was mainly for one reason: the pastor (and he's hardly alone in this) never taught exactly who and what a new believer has become in Christ...likely because he himself did not know of it.
-musterion



The very important national leader (reported above) who rebuffed doctrinal unity by replying “What is Truth?” was Jim McCotter.  


« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 08:48:15 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2021, 09:24:38 pm »

Poor Theology in GCx Churches

Continued



More from former GCx members on GCx Theology.


Submitting to leaders is stressed far more than submitting to The Lord. ...I've been told not to read outside of the Bible. The first time I heard that I gave the benefit of the doubt, the second time came along with a weird explanation, so I figured the person didn't know what she was saying. The third time it was said, I realized they were serious.
-Mary7
Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2021, 05:46:41 pm »


Very rarely did I see true study of theology in GC. My pastor was not well read and looked down upon other people who read. If you told them you were studying works from an author, they would laugh it off. Seminary was often referred to as "Cemetary".

The root issue is that this movement was founded by people who were very critical of the church. In their eyes, the church had failed to convert lost souls and they had to start a new movement with new theology because the theology of the past wasn't working. So, if you were to study things by people who were part of the failed church movements of the past, you posed a danger to the unique teachings of what GC was trying to introduce.
-MarthaH
Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2021, 08:59:41 pm »


...the bulk of the negative evidence that we found came from GCM itself (sermons, conference tapes, papers, books) not from outsiders...

Two things came to mind right away... The first is a gcnwdads.com article. Number 46 entitled “Building Courage and a Spirit of Sacrifice in our Wives” is telling. One concluding line is, “Sometimes, the only way to cultivate and develop a joyful response to sacrifice on the part of our wives is to plan times of sacrifice into our marriages.”  How twisted is that? The Bible tells us that it’s not the wife that is supposed to sacrifice for her husband, but the husband is to sacrifice for his wife.

... Another talk at Faithwalkers 2005 was telling (and very sad). I think it was a main session on God’s Revolution on Earth. The speaker says that early in his marriage his wife had asked what one thing she could do that would help him most. His answer was to tell her that he was going strong for God and that the best thing she could do for him was to not be a weight at his feet. That is not only wrong, but profoundly sad.
MamaD

« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 10:04:12 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
PietWowo
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 287



« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 02:30:46 pm »


...the bulk of the negative evidence that we found came from GCM itself (sermons, conference tapes, papers, books) not from outsiders...

Two things came to mind right away... The first is a gcnwdads.com article. Number 46 entitled “Building Courage and a Spirit of Sacrifice in our Wives” is telling. One concluding line is, “Sometimes, the only way to cultivate and develop a joyful response to sacrifice on the part of our wives is to plan times of sacrifice into our marriages.”  How twisted is that? The Bible tells us that it’s not the wife that is supposed to sacrifice for her husband, but the husband is to sacrifice for his wife.

... Another talk at Faithwalkers 2005 was telling (and very sad). I think it was a main session on God’s Revolution on Earth. The speaker says that early in his marriage his wife had asked what one thing she could do that would help him most. His answer was to tell her that he was going strong for God and that the best thing she could do for him was to not be a weight at his feet. That is not only wrong, but profoundly sad.
MamaD



Depends on the context.... First quote..... Husbands and wives at times will have to sacrifice many things together for God. Most missionary couples are in that situation.... Both of them have to sacrifice many things....

The second depends a lot on the family.... Maybe the wife is holding her husband back and he's asking that.... Now maybe he should have not married her to start off with. But once they are married, they need to work it out.

Janeth, it doesn't seem like your problem is with these quotes. But your problem with your difficulty in letting go off for you bad experiences...

Did you know that many past GCx's will support financially staffers in their former churches???  So, it's not like they had that bad of an experience with them. Just recently I spoke with a friend of mine from our old GCx days.... He told me how it was such a wonderful time. Now, he's television reporter and has if you will been around the block.... Not everyone had the same experience as you did in GCx....

So, if you had a bad experience.... confront the one(s) who did that to you... try to work it out and move on.... You're not doing yourself a favor by writing these daily posts....
Logged
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2021, 09:04:26 pm »


...one led by the same people who come to power under McCotter’s intense, super-confident, ethically suspect, theologically untrained leadership. When I left there was a proof-text driven vagueness and vacuousness about everything. The dynamics of attaining leadership seemed hidden. There remained a demand for purity that, in this instantiation, meant being “less legalistic” than before, not a bad idea, but it nonetheless violated my sense of respect for boundaries, and I felt that there was a demand for perfection I couldn’t live up to. I felt horribly empty and lonely and was glad to get on with my adult life charting an independent path. Being involved was just too big of a burden for me. The popular GC mantra “he who separates himself seeks his own desire” strikes me as used, by this group, largely for its own abusive agenda against freedom of thought and individuality.
-Observer

« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 07:15:10 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2021, 05:35:15 pm »

This statement declares something that cannot be denied or deceptively excused. I believe it’s tolerance and public acceptance rather than rejection is likely the ROOT of all GCx spiritual abuse.



My point, as better stated by others, is that McCotter is NOT someone whose teachings (in any part) should be endorsed as "solid" by GC.  And if GC chooses to do so, they'd better take every punch thrown at them over this without even trying to defend themselves.  Because it's simply indefensible.
-namaste



Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2021, 08:37:44 pm »


Poor Theology in GCx Churches

The More Light Shed, The Darker It Gets


If it seems the more we expose and learn about the actual history and behind-the-scenes facts of GCx Churches and their leaders, the darker the organization becomes, you are not alone. If we had known some portion of any of this while we were members we likely would have high-tailed it out of there. Sadly, many of us were very young or new-born in the faith when we arrived and didn’t know biblical from unbiblical. We were easy prey to tyrannical leaders like McCotter. But we are getting smarter as we get to know who Jesus really is, and educated about the truth of GCx they have tried to keep hidden for decades.

The following informative accounts may be news to some, and to others more definitive details of what they suspected.



...I first joined the movement in Tucson in late 1971. For one thing, I had long felt there was an unbiblical denigration of the mind and its intellectual capacity in exploring the deeper truths of Scripture, and general discouragement of engaging in more "secular" pursuits, particularly higher education. This was accompanied by an over-strong emphasis on aggressive evangelism, among other things, and I felt there were many truths of Scripture which had not been taught adequately or even touched upon; the teaching we had been receiving seldom provided more than the rudiments of the faith.
- Larry Pile, “Marching to Zion”


... So when the Bible would get in the way ~ when the young elders grew in their understanding of the Bible in deeper ways, when they began to get deeper and more accurate convictions and therefore knew they had to teach what the Bible said in order to please God ~ this became a problem.  That's why in the earlier days some of the main leaders had decided it would be best to not teach one way or another on certain doctrines.  They really did talk about this and said this.  Just ignore them altogether or go very lightly over the top of them. ...

Loving God and His Word first and foremost and rightly dividing it and proclaiming it faithfully and fully was not encouraged and if you questioned them about certain doctrines or the depth of some doctrines you were not humble (to them) and you were causing the difficulty.  That's why GC continues to have so many problems ~ weak, shallow and errant doctrines.
- Truth Lover


Great Commission [GCx Church Organization] has taken their stand. Their beliefs are now quite public (unlike when we left). "Give the controls of your life to the men God works through" and  "commit to your local church for life unless the elders give you permission to leave" are their mantras. ...
- Linda


« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 05:24:39 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Vince Capobianco
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97



« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2021, 01:11:19 pm »

X
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 08:09:20 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 05:17:37 pm »


The Deceptive Teaching of “Fruit”



I am the vine and you are the branches.
The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit.
For apart from Me you can do nothing.

John 15:5


In GCx Churches, according to the teaching of Jim McCotter and those he discipled, and those they discipled... -FRUIT EQUALED COUNTABLE BODIES joining the church. It was taught that we must prove our “fruitfulness” to be worthy.  The number of people we physically brought to the church or “discipled” in the church, already saved or not, determined our worth and status. It was all about the outward production and “success.” (Thus, when new people came through the door, people dropped conversations with their familiar friends to scramble to the “love-bombing” welcome.)

Like salesmen in pyramid scheme, we were expected to “follow-up” any who might be interested in the church (including, but not limited to, those interested in Jesus). Our free time was to be used to frequently call or visit these potential members. My “mentors” “dogged” me daily, often twice a day. It felt intrusive and condescending. This, we were taught, was “pursuing fruit”. Being successful at accomplishing this was, or so we thought, “being fruitful.” “Manipulating Them to Join” and “Pursuing” these people was deceptively labeled “fruitful ministry.” BUT NOT ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, unless the methods we are using are a result of the submission to and overflow of the Spirit.


And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Acts 2:47


The Who? GCxers just listened to and followed leaders of GCx. Were we not taught that apart from Jesus and his Life in us WE COULD DO NOTHING OF DIVINE VALUE. Thus, the “fruit” we thought (we manipulated and) we worked for was not, by God’s biblical definition, divine or of eternal value. We were expending much effort, working and devoted to a plan of mere men. No wonder we didn’t have the JOY, HUMILITY, and PATIENCE that abiding in the divine brings.


Here is what reknown biblical author, Andrew Murray, very insightfully shares about authentic “fruitbearing.”

Have you ever noticed the difference in the Christian life between work and fruit? ... A law can compel work: only love can spontaneously bring forth fruit. Work implies effort and labour: the essential idea of fruit is that it is the silent natural restful produce of our inner life. ...he can do nothing to produce the apple: the tree bears its own fruit. So in the Christian life: "The fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy." The healthy life bears much fruit. ... It is only when good works come as the fruit of the indwelling Spirit that they are acceptable to God. Under the compulsion of law and conscience, or the influence of inclination and zeal, men may be most diligent in good works, and yet find that they have but little spiritual result. There can be no reason but this —their works are man's effort, instead of being the fruit of the Spirit, the restful natural outcome of the Spirit's operation within us.


You CANNOT Bear Fruit, ONLY The Spirit Can.


Like the pastor rightly taught at the CMA church I attended today: Gifting, Accolades, Accomplishments, and Success in Ministry are NOT necessarily AUTHENTIC FRUIT. Only JESUS ABIDING IN and THROUGH US produces the FRUIT OF THE VINE.





« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 08:39:55 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2022, 08:37:06 pm »


Sound Theology of Fruit by Andrew Murray



Apart from Me you can do nothing

John 15:5


If you stayed any length of time in GCx Churches, there became less and less dependence on the Holy Spirit; and more and more codepence on your mentor/discipler and the leader they were following. After awhile, it was no longer the flow of Jesus’ life through us that compelled us to do “good works”, but guilt and fear. Zeal was often not of the Spirit, but of fleshly effort to make a visible show. Insecurity, jealousy, and competition which ran high in these churches spurred on flurries of human strength to contend for elevated positions in GCx. These “accoladed positions” sadly were too often the motivation behind “ fruit bearing.”

Instead, it is the quiet humble motion of the Spirit, not our fleshly efforts, that operate like birds restfully riding the wind that truly produces the divine. Andrew Murray explains this work only the Spirit Can Do:


... As Son He did not receive His life from the Father once for all, but moment by moment. His life was a continual waiting on the Father for all He was to do. And so Christ says of His disciples: Ye can do nothing apart from Me. ...

A deep conviction of the truth of this word lies at the very root of a strong spiritual life. As little as I created myself, as little as I could raise a man from the dead, can I give myself the Divine life. As little as I can give it myself, can I maintain or increase it: every motion is the work of God through Christ and His Spirit. It is as a man believes this, that he will take up that position of entire and continual dependence which is the very essence of the life of faith. With the spiritual eye he sees Christ every moment supplying grace for every breathing and every deepening of the spiritual life. His whole heart says Amen to the word: You can do nothing. And just because he does so, he can also say: "I can do all things in Christ who strengtheneth me." The sense of helplessness, and the abiding to which it compels, leads to true fruitfulness and diligence in good works.




Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2022, 09:23:46 pm »

The following are excerpts from Larry Pile’s “Letter to the Disperion” written in 1978 and found in the Top Ten Section of The GCx Web Library on this Forum site. They describe GCx’s erroneous and unhealthy operation as a “church.” The link follows the telling excerpts.

Though I was not in GCx at the time this letter was written, nor did I experience what Larry Pile did in those early years; I personally would extend the label “utilitarian” used below to “exploitation.” I would not give the benefit of the doubt toward biblical motives to the founder. The GCx I knew from 1980 to 1991 was not following the Great Commission Jesus gave his disciples. From their actions (not their words) their actual goal was not evangelizing the world for Christ; but ultimately to reach as many as possible to join their “supreme divinely anointed group” who would lord over their lives for the rest of their life. Now doesn’t that sound like adultery in our relationship to Christ? Doesn’t that sound like an insidious deception of Satan to get new believers off Jesus’ path for them? We have only one Husband and Lord the Apostle Paul emphatically warned.

The operation of discipleship in GCx was not biblical either. For Christ’s Spirit is humble and gentle and puts others interests above their own. This was NOT the spirit of GCx. They manipulated and exploited people. Their MO turned out to fulfill the founders motto, “By hook or by crook.” In their fierce determination to hook people into their ranks, they deceptively stole their freedom from them. They abusively deceived their members into isolating themselves among them for a lifetime.

Pile has good insights in this letter about the significant lack of actual biblical pattern GCx taught and practiced. Some of which are below. Bold emphasis and italics mine.


... One question that immediately arises in connection with this is: how should we gauge what "the most" is? By the number of professions of faith in Christ? By the number of persevering disciples that are made? Or by something less tangible, less readily measured, such as helping believers to experience a total and mature spiritual life, or preparing the hearts of unbelievers to be won by someone else? The concept that prevails in the Blitz assemblies with which I am familiar does not seem to leave room for that last gauge of fruitfulness...

... Concerning laborers, it's a remarkable (and overlooked) fact that Jesus, in speaking to the disciples about the need for the harvest, did not tell them to evangelize for the purpose of raising up laborers, but to pray for laborers, i.e., to ask and believe Him to raise them up, rather than to expend a lot of human energy in the endeavor. And when the disciples went out, they went out "among the villages, preaching and healing everywhere" (Luke 9:6) -- they didn't look for something they could call "the most accessible labor pool"! ...

... It was the Lord who raised up the laborers. The "most accessible labor pool" theory of evangelism strikes me as being extremely utilitarian (as Franky Schaeffer would say)--it indicates more of a desire to see people saved for what they can produce than for who they are or because of their intrinsic worth as creatures in God's image[/b]. ...

This utilitarian view of things carries over into "discipleship." Time is spent teaching or helping a person only so long as he responds positively to instructions and conforms to the discipler's expectation of what he ought to be a doing--which primarily means he should get involved in the evangelistic effort on the campus. The biblical injunction to help the weak and encourage the fainthearted (1 Th. 5:14) seems to be interpreted to mean that the weak and fainthearted are such because they're not evangelizing (at all or enough) and that all their problems would be solved by active involvement in the evangelization program...

Spiritual growth takes time--much more time than the Blitz is normally prepared to grant. New and immature believers are force-fed and pushed and pulled in an attempt to make reproducing laborers out of them at an early age. Unfortunately this does not usually work--all this effort manages to produce is a bunch of deformed and stunted spiritual children full of zeal without knowledge because they haven't been allowed to grow by the working of the Holy Spirit within them. ...

- Larry Pile, 1978



“Letter to The Dispersion” by Lawrence Pile

http://gcxweb.org/Misc/LarryPile-02-06-1978.aspx


« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 06:25:02 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2022, 08:32:21 am »


The Vital Teaching of the Holy Spirit


Apart from the Holy Spirit we cannot divinely effect the lives of others. As Charles Stanley explains in this teaching, the Spirit leads and keeps us inside the will of God. Obviously, many of the leaders in GCx would have had to quench the Spirit in order to practice the harsh and abusive words and actions they did. So many teachings & practices were DEFINITELY NOT HIS WILL! Some may have started out heeding his Spirit, but went astray in their quest for men’s approval, position, and even exultation. The temptation of “importance,” “success,” and “power” very likely caused them to ignore the promptings of Jesus and his gentle shepherding.

The teaching below is helpful in understanding the vital work of the Holy Spirit in our lives.



Walking in the Spirit - Dr. Charles Stanley

https://youtu.be/r-9L2-aVR4I



« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 01:48:38 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
PietWowo
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 287



« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2022, 11:46:48 pm »

Most evangelicals have very poor doctrine....Go ask them how many Books of the Bible they have memorized....

They don't know how to defend basic things. For instance the evangelical goes to a Jewish Rabbi. The evangelical thinks that they know Isa. 53 should convince the Jewish Rabbi. But the Jewish Rabbi has the entire Book of Isaiah memorized. So, he just asked them about the context. What is chapter 52 about? Or 54? Most evangelicals would have no idea... how to answer that. Including most elders from GC whatever.
Logged
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2022, 04:08:17 pm »


Poor Theology in GCx Churches

Insights from the Inside



Here are insightful observations and pointed conclusions from someone inside the leadership circle. These are based on actual words, meetings, pastors conferences and teachings of GCx leaders (especially those holding high status and power in GCx). They give us a knowledgeable view. Others (or their spouses) in like positions such as GCx elder/pastor/teachers here also have experienced similar conversations, silencing and unbiblical rebuke. Some wonder what went wrong. It seems from these glimpses of early history those in authority were not interested in the accuracy or fullness of The Word of God being taught from the very beginning.


I am the wife of a pastor who came to GC [GCx alias] in the 70's and was recognized as an elder a few years later.  I came in the 80's.  I do thank God for leading me to GC as it is where I met my husband and some very dear friends. ...

Here’s one example of un-Biblical authority of some of the leaders ~ a grown man decided it was time for he and his family to move to a far away location and they counseled him not to because it was not God’s will for him to do that ~ to which I said to my husband:  “How could they know what God’s will is for him in this situation?” ...

One time we wanted to go to a conference on prophecy by a gifted Bible teacher ~ and we were told not to because it might cause us to learn something they didn’t believe.  I had never heard any teaching on prophecy at all in the years I had been there [in GCx], yet we were told it was wrong for us to learn from someone else. ...

We began to understand more about God’s sovereignty in everything, including salvation, and we realized that we had never heard any teaching on this at all. ...  I remember hearing of a GC pastor who taught one Sunday morning that God doesn’t really know everything. I couldn’t sleep very well that night.  Later I heard that he admitted that he shouldn’t have said it, but he still believed it.

... there is an overbalance on what we need to do rather than what God does through us as we are believing Him and obedient to His Word and His ways ...

... All the gifts in the body are needed for a healthy church, but the gifted teacher types were not encouraged to use their gift of digging in the Word to understand it properly and then teach it fully and accurately to the people.  Indeed, many if not most times they have been discouraged from doing so. ... I remember at a meeting once when a group of leaders and wives were there and this one [GCx] pastor claimed that in order to grow we need to go back to our roots and just be enthusiastic like in the old campus days,  I quoted John 6:63  “ It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.”  ~ I said something like:  “we need more of the Word so the Spirit can use it to give life!”  ~ he did not look pleased. ...

One day my husband came home and told me that one [GCx] pastor said to him that he was not humble.  I was so upset and amazed because, while no one is perfect, he was and is very humble, he had been very patient through all this and had served faithfully for many, many years and only wanted to follow God and His Word.  But once you disagree as a result of growing in your understanding of God’s Word, then you are the problem, you are messing up the unity, you are not humble.  Again it’s their definition of humility  ~ humble and submissive to them, apart from what God’s Word actually says.  I went out that night to cool off and went to the mall and bought my husband some after shave called “Escape”! It’s nice that God gives us a sense of humor even at a time like that! ...

My husband and his present co-pastor went to many GC pastors’ conferences in the past.  He said that in all the many years he went to GC pastors’ conferences, the continual emphasis was always on evangelism and relationships ~ he said that there was never even one GC pastors’ conference dedicated to training and encouraging pastors how to faithfully teach the Bible in order to feed the believers. Remember, most in GC, including leaders, have never heard much, if any, deep, accurate, and thorough Bible teaching themselves.

... so they can't teach the deep, wonderful things of God.  Instead they probably spend their time devising ways to try and compel people outwardly to conform to what they think is important, rather than let God, by His Word & Spirit, work in ones' hearts to produce true, heartfelt desires in line with what He wants them to be and do. Again, it comes from an inadequate understanding of God, His sovereignty, and man's inability to work up in himself anything that is pleasing to God. ... I am convinced that this is the main root of the problems in GC and other churches who think they can produce salvations and control peoples' lives if they just do the right things/methods.

... GC seemed to value unity around the Great Commission more than the Bible as a whole.  Also there was the relational unity that they said was so important.  Both of those are very important.  But unity around and in the truth is also very important.  So when the Bible would get in the way ~ when the young elders grew in their understanding of the Bible in deeper ways, when they began to get deeper and more accurate convictions and therefore knew they had to teach what the Bible said in order to please God ~ this became a problem.  That's why in the earlier days some of the main leaders had decided it would be best to not teach one way or another on certain doctrines.  They really did talk about this and said this.  Just ignore them altogether or go very lightly over the top of them.  There was never any real unity on some very important doctrines.

...when churches tend to diminish the role of the teaching pastors and / or teach inaccurately, they are short circuiting God's plan for growing the church His way ~ by His Word & Spirit, through imperfect but redeemed vessels such as us.  It is so the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not of ourselves.

-Truth Lover


« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 11:13:46 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2023, 06:30:43 pm »



For me the problem with Great Commission [GCx alias] has never been much about hurts and offenses. It's been about theology and ecclesiology, the theory and practice of Christianity.

Without a doubt all sorts of harmful relational things result from bad teaching—ideas do have consequences—but at the core of GC oddness and dysfunction is an aberrant view of two things: 1) The nature of the church as the body of Christ and  2) The nature of biblical leadership. BTW, problems well articulated by folks coming out of this group decades ago.

Inevitably from these errors flow some pretty dangerous possibilities; high-control "discipleship" practices, shepherding, cult-like demands for life-time loyalty to the organization, suppression of questioning and dissent, and perhaps more subtle, a maturity-paralyzing atmosphere of condescension produced by a preposterously elevated "clergy" over members of the group. And the list could go on.

-TerryD,   2009



« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 10:39:19 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2023, 09:24:21 pm »



I think GCM has a serious problem whereby enthusiasm they preach a lot of nonsense, and not enough gospel ... GCM mixes much error with some truth, and some of the truth it preaches isn't really, because it's twisted: they twist it. They don't hold to the form of sound words...and if they're confronted with that, they say "I know his heart"; trouble is that the Word says only God knows our hearts. ...

GCM's problem is false teaching...which leads to false practice (the technical term is "heteropraxy"). ...

-theresearchpersona,   2008


« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 11:13:07 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1775



« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2023, 06:01:33 am »



The trouble for us [former GCx] sheep is that the field we fed on (in GCx) had so much straw and thistles and thorns that we often starved or were hurt and wounded in our faith.

By their fruit you will recognize them [that is, by their contrived
doctrine and self-focus]. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes
or figs from thistles?
Even so, every healthy tree bears good fruit,
but the unhealthy tree bears bad fruit.

Matthew 7:16-17   AMP

We thought our own dissatisfaction was from our lack of "righteousness" because that is what we were taught. So we got on the gerbil wheel of 'righteousness' or 'holiness' in an insane effort to attain something that had already been accomplished for us.

Paul points this out clearly to the Galatians who had come under false teaching. Galatians chapter 3, verses 1-5 recount their predicament, especially verse 3: "Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

-Janet



« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 06:39:59 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Free.to.love.Jesus
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2023, 08:50:33 am »

In a Bible teaching, we were told to immitate the leaders. We should be told to immitate the Lord.
We knew we had to leave.
Logged
Free.to.love.Jesus
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 24



« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2023, 10:25:57 am »

They had conference after conference, event after event.  And conferences went late into the night. Enough to drive anyone crazy who needed rest and time to study for exams. But we were lectured time after time how we still had enough time to study. Oh yeah. I can do all that! Right. Tell me about it. 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1