Time to move out of Des Moines! :)

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

http://movingforwardcampaign.blogspot.com/p/our-journey.html

[AgathaL'Orange]

I can't get over all the work that they put their members through.  Note to pastors:  You are aware that your members have lives, right?  I mean cleaning, sewing, construction, painting, killing cockroaches, cooking, doing the music, setting up chairs, taking down chairs, moving everything, leading stuff... That's a lot to put onto to anyone at any stage of life.  But young people who are in college should be getting ready for the next phase of life.  Young marrieds should be getting to know each other and setting the foundation for their family.  Young parents should be parenting. 

I don't get it.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Also, all of the pastors sound alike!  AAAAAH!

"God uh, really blessed us, uh, and it was a tremendous, just a tremendous adventure in its uniqueness.  God is uhhh, God is always faithful."  AAAAAHHHHH!  God IS always faithful.  But not just to GC.



GC members all sound alike:  I remember painting.  I remember cleaning.  I remember sewing.


AHHHHHH!

[Neverbeengcm]

I agree Agatha.  There is a disturbing, subtle rythm to the way they speak.  It is like they are in some kind of trance.  Anyways...here is my two cents worth:

I feel so bad for the people who have been assimilated into the control of any GCx church.  But, the Walnut Creek and the Downtown Church are two of the most problematic churches in the Great Commission.  There are so many stories of people trying to escape the controlling clutches of those two churches. I can feel the pain of individuals trying to do the right thing by discussing problems they are having and then running into the idiotic methodology used by the GC leadership to re-assimilate them back into the sect.

These are some of the weird things that I see happening that are not considered to be abnormal for someone in the cult:

• -   Any insurrection or questioning of church leadership is always done behind closed doors to avoid other members of the church from possibly hearing about it.  Discussions that are eventually brought out are only issues where a poor parishioner has been re-assimilated and then guilted into confessing his/her “sins” in front of the flock to threaten others who may consider speaking out against the leadership.
  
  -   Couples with marital problems are not allowed to seek counsel outside the cult. Any counseling is done by pastors/leaders who always counsel the couple to stay together and “submit” to each other instead of identifying the problem and working on them.  GCx pastors are not professional marriage counselors with  “real” training.  What in the world makes them think they should be counselors of any kind?  The only training they got comes from sucking up to their leaders so that they can get some power in the church.  Does that make them smart enough to rule over your personal life?
  
  -   If you are offered a great job outside the region where the GCx church is located, the pastor will “pray on it” and tell you what God tells him you should do.  Oddly enough, he will always counsel you to only take a job where the GCx can control you. .  The pastor will obviously not want to lose one of the few who have been assimilated.  Instead of “praying” for God to help you make a wise decision, the pastor is actually “preying” on you.  Your best interest and freedom to choose a church by using your brain will not be of any concern to him.
  
  -    The daily lives of GCx members is scheduled in a way to make it unlikely that they will have significant contact with other members of society. This is obviously done by design.  If you can keep people from talking to normal society, then they will begin to think that the GCx society is normal. Doesn't everyone spend most of their free time working for their church?  Well, most of us don't (for those of you who don't know that).  We are supposed to be free to enjoy life, relationships with family and friends while rejoicing in the glory of God without being controlled.  
  
   -   The way that dating is done in GCx churches is so wrong.  These folks in Des Moines are in for a treat if they allow themselves to be sucked in. Only the ones who suck up to the pastor and give their life to the pastor will be allowed to date.  And then they will only be allowed to date someone who the pastor approves of (based on how much this person sucks up to him). The basis of a GCx relationship is not based on compatibility. If you don’t blindly give your life to the church…you ain’t gonna date and then marry in the GCx.
  
  -   I don’t understand why anyone feels an obligation to tell the pastor when they leave a church.  Just leave.  You are adults with minds of your own.  You don’t have any obligation to stay in a GCx church or tell ANYONE when you change churches.
  
  -   GCx churches teach people that they are commanded by God to stay with a GCx church for life.  Come on, people!!!  Do you really believe that line of whatever?

Sorry to rant.  But, watching that video make me feel like I was being violated somehow.  The wording and the rhythm and the whole 5 building thing was really disconcerting to me .

[Linda]

I watched the rather lengthy video in its entirety. The main thing that struck me looking back is the thought, "Where are the grown ups?" I know someone will come back with 1 Timothy 4:12, so I'll spare you having to look up the verse.

I can't help but think of the disclaimer written in the statement on their web page that describes "Project Care" (seriously, those people needed to hire a new PR group on that because no one knew of Project Care till they put it on the web page). It says:

"Almost all of the early leaders were young men in their twenties and thirties who were learning and growing in Christian leadership. Our early immaturity and isolation contributed to some errors and weaknesses that were later addressed in Project Care."

Hello?!

This is not about "persecuting" young, enthusiastic Christians who want to spread the Gospel. This is about helping them not make stupid mistakes that hurt people and divide families and undermine the Lordship of Christ.

I would assume that they look to the leaders of WCCC for "mature" advice, but those are the very people who grew up in this flawed system and continue to perpetuate it.

So very sad.

[Linda]

One other point. In the video, he says something about circling Des Moines with GC churches. I wonder if any one has ever asked him the question, "Why?" I'm thinking there are a number of churches already in the greater Des Moines area.

Obviously, the rationale is that there is not a church in Des Moines that does church as well as GC does church. Because if they were really interested in reaching the unchurched, they would go to towns, cities, states that don't already have churches.

[Neverbeengcm]

You are absolutely correct, Linda.  There is not one picture of a mature adult in the entire video.  Very strange...

[Janet Easson Martin]

"We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will continue our boasting to the field God has assigned us...For we do not want to boast about work done in another man's territory."

"For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends."

_{2 Corinthians 10:13,16,18}

One of the things the false apostles did in Paul's day was try to actually "take captive" those another (Paul) had led to the Lord, and persuade them that they (Paul) were not as good a christian leader or church as they were.  They were "super".  They put on a show to impress these new christians convincing them they were MORE competent.  They worked hard at selling themselves and their following.  A big red flag to identify "false" christian leaders/ churches and teachers is their emphasis on commending themselves, comparing others to them, and comparing themselves to eachother!  There is a continual undercurrent of who's on top of who, or who's ahead of who.  It breeds an insidious unspoken spiritual pride, jealousy, and resentment. This is why Paul says these false apostles actually operate by the standards of the world (2 Corinthians 10:2b).  In healthy christian churches this is not at all the "growing" environment.

"But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles."  I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge... Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you...

"For even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for BUILDING YOU UP RATHER THAN TEARING YOU DOWN, I will not be ashamed of it."

_{2 Corinthians 11:5,6a,7a & 10:8}

The false teachers took advantage of these new Corinthian christians financially, spiritually, and emotionally.  They requested to be paid for giving them straw and thorns as "bible teaching".  They must have used spiritual shame and guilt to persuade them to isolate themselves from Paul; through slandering his motives, character and integrity, while exulting themselves and their methods.  

[nelliepooh]

is it strange that i recognise 90% of the people in this video from when i was there 8 years ago and they are all still there?  they were all college students and they all got stuck because they didnt leave.

[blonde]

I know when ECC went from renting to buying the building, the leadership (i.e. Brent Knox) demanded people tithe.  It was scary to see how he acted and did his sermons about tithing and sacrificing. -Blonde

[Ned_Flanders]

is it strange that i recognise 90% of the people in this video from when i was there 8 years ago and they are all still there?  they were all college students and they all got stuck because they didnt leave.

I don't know if that's strange but it's definitely not something I would have done.  My interest was to go to school, get a job, get married with children and then move on, i.e., away from the college town.  I know in the college town where I went to school there are some people who are still there to this day, 20 years later, involved in campus ministry and still single.  But hey, it's your life, do what you want to with it.  And certainly, campus ministry is important.  I just know I'm not interested in being a 50-year old man hanging around with college kids playing Duck Duck Goose (I heard about the playing of that game on one occasion after I left the university).

[AgathaL'Orange]

Wow, that is kind of sad.