Turn the other cheek

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[araignee19]

I want to post about something that has been on my mind and heart a lot lately, but I have been debating if it is the right thing to say. So I will say this and you can all make up your own minds the wisdom of my thoughts.

I personally am done responding to anything Digital Lynch Mob, Jeromy Darling, and others like them post from here out (if Jeromy does start posting again). Their posts have been vile, critical, unloving, personal, lashing, and hypocritical attacks against anyone who dares to disagree with them. We will NOT convince them of our viewpoints. I am convinced they have done more to hurt Mark's reputation than anything anyone else has said on this site.

They do not show Christ. They are attacking people instead of ideas. They are attacking and seem to be trying to distract from the search for justice. They say we have made unfair attacks towards Mark. In some cases they may be right, and I would encourage everyone to be very cautions to not fall into personal attacks and speculation against Mark. Focus on known facts. Stay or get on the high ground and stay there at all costs. If you see someone saying something that does fall into attacks or gossip or speculation, send a personal message to call them out. Correct old posts if you realize you said something out of line.

I think by allowing DLM and Jeromy (and any others who are posting similar types of posts) to rant and by refusing to respond to them, we will be taking the high ground. I would like to challenge everyone to stop responding! No matter how good of a point you might have in response. No matter how insulting they have been. Walk away. Do not let them stir the "hornets nest" anymore. Stop letting them direct the conversation. Take away their voice by letting them have the other cheek.

I'm sure this post will draw attacks towards me. I will not respond. Please, no one else respond to the attacks if they come.

Continue to argue theology and call out bad teachings and share personal experiences. But not with them anymore.

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." Proverbs 26:4

[Janet Easson Martin]

I agree that when others act like Pharisees - twisting the truth and hurling lies and slander - then they can be treated like Pharisees.  Jesus said, "Leave them".  In other words, don't stick around to argue.  I personally feel led by the Spirit to do just that.

[Differentstrokes]

I agree. When people are so engrained in their own opinions. Debate is not a useful option(although I do love healthy debate, I think its great to hear from other points of view some times!), arguing will get you no where.

[Greentruth]

I agree Janet, when you read when the Pharisees went after Jesus, trying to trick Him into saying something they could prosecute Him with, you see similarities to what I see here. When anyone tries to speak rationally their words are manipulated and thrown back at them. And when there is no other recourse they did exactly what has just been done here. Everyone left this site alone for scores of years. We all knew about it, and let there be this safe spot for venting for those who couldn’t give it to God. But when you attack the Church and people we love, yes we are going to bring forth truths that are being squashed or ignored. We are all weak and susceptible to fail, and of this I’m sure, if we seek what is right, what is loving, and pray for forgiveness, letting God be God and take care of matters, we will find peace.

[Linda]

We all knew about it, and let there be this safe spot for venting for those who couldn’t give it to God.

That is your opinion. This site was created to warn people about the aberrant teaching in GCC churches. Hence the name, gcmwarning. We are here to warn people by talking about problems we have encountered in GCC teaching and practice. If you don't think there is a problem, this site is not for you and probably explains your harsh attitude and misunderstanding of people who have been damaged by this teaching and who post here. Again, you probably have no idea the damage that has been done for many years by this bad theology/teaching/practice, but understand that you don't have the full story here.

Do you believe the victims are lying? Please answer.

[Huldah]

Returning to the topic at hand:

Arraignee19, I've been impressed by the kindness and gentleness of your posts. You've shown great generosity of spirit toward both sides here. You're a blessing and a voice of reason.

I've been debating the very thing you suggested, just ignoring the posts from ECC supporters. For me, that's starting to make more and more sense. But the thing is, I'm of two minds about it. On one hand, I'm tired of going in circles with people who came here intending to cause trouble. On the other hand, error still needs to be refuted. Furthermore, speaking the truth wasn't safe back in my GC church, and I paid a high price for doing it. As a result, I'm reluctant to give up my voice now that I can finally speak out without fear.

I hope that makes sense. I think your suggestion has a lot of merit, but I just don't know if I'm ready to go along with it. I do very much honor the spirit in which it was made, though.

[Greentruth]

Araignee19, I’m sorry if I have hurt your feelings, not meant to. I will not be posting on your site any more, as I have said all I need to. Praise our Lord Jesus, as He is our guide, councilor, forever redeemer.  God IS bigger than this!

[Linda]

Drive by! Of course!

[araignee19]

Returning to the topic at hand:

Arraignee19, I've been impressed by the kindness and gentleness of your posts. You've shown great generosity of spirit toward both sides here. You're a blessing and a voice of reason.

I've been debating the very thing you suggested, just ignoring the posts from ECC supporters. For me, that's starting to make more and more sense. But the thing is, I'm of two minds about it. On one hand, I'm tired of going in circles with people who came here intending to cause trouble. On the other hand, error still needs to be refuted. Furthermore, speaking the truth wasn't safe back in my GC church, and I paid a high price for doing it. As a result, I'm reluctant to give up my voice now that I can finally speak out without fear.

I hope that makes sense. I think your suggestion has a lot of merit, but I just don't know if I'm ready to go along with it. I do very much honor the spirit in which it was made, though.

That makes complete sense. It's why I have posted and responded up till now. But I think the responses to their attacks are out there now. Most of the points have already been made, and people have already made up their minds. Or they can read historical posts if they are still undecided. I just have come to the conclusion not taking their bait and getting stirred up does more to discredit them than anything else I can possibly say. When the attacks are completely one sided, people will see that. So I don't feel silenced. I feel stronger than them because I truly have the power to walk away. I can shake my head in confusion and sadness and peace at their attacks in my confidence regarding who I am in Christ and what I believe to be true about this situation and all else.

But that being said, I trust you are listening to Gods prompting in this situation. And if you do still feel called to respond, I think you should do that with as much kindness and integrity as you can.

I will also say if any ECC supporters want to come here and have a kind and mature discussion, they should be completely welcomed. I might even respond to some. But not those few I have named and others who use similar tactics.

[Digital Lynch Mob]

I'm going to turn the other cheek on this thread.

[Huldah]

But I think the responses to their attacks are out there now. Most of the points have already been made, and people have already made up their minds. Or they can read historical posts if they are still undecided. I just have come to the conclusion not taking their bait and getting stirred up does more to discredit them than anything else I can possibly say. When the attacks are completely one sided, people will see that. So I don't feel silenced. I feel stronger than them because I truly have the power to walk away. I can shake my head in confusion and sadness and peace at their attacks in my confidence regarding who I am in Christ and what I believe to be true about this situation and all else.

You make a very good case.

At the very least, perhaps ignoring them would help keep threads on-topic. It bothers me when threads change topics multiple times and then drag on for page after page, long after the original topic has been forgotten. (Although I've been as guilty as anyone when it comes to making it happen.) Maybe ignoring the flare-ups and rants would have the side benefit of minimizing the number of thread-jacks.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Just want to clarify that by no means should supporters of the GCx Warnining Forum stand down when someone brave enough to share their story of abuse in GCx is personally attacked in attempt to discredit them and their story.   How dare those who oppose this site try to take away their voice!  You already steal their voice by ignoring them, rebuking them, excommunicating them and viciously implying they are the ones with the problem IN YOUR CHURCHES.  You are NOT WELCOME to do it here!  

I personally feel those who practice such tactics do not deserve a response personally directed to them because they have already shown they are unwilling to respect the victims and the truth.  They are clearly not interested in doing so.  So, Jesus says don't cast your pearls before those who act like swine.  

I fully agree this site was created to give those silenced in this deviant organization a VOICE.  God knows GCx's tricks.  He will in no way tolerate them endlessly.  There is a reckoning coming and it's not for those who speak THE TRUTH on here.  It's for those who downplay it, cover it, silence it, and PUNISH those who speak it.  It's only a matter of time until the house of cards collapses.

[araignee19]

Well I'm certainly adding arrogantcat and HughHoney go this list. My word! The maturity... Not sure those profiles aren't just trolls trying to get a rise, but I think everyone should just ignore them completely (as it seems most have been doing, which is good).

[Huldah]

Arraignee19, I feel much the same way. There are certain people I've decided just aren't worth the bother of even reading any more.

The forum owner has granted us all the privilege of speaking our minds here. That doesn't mean that any particular member has the right to be heard. Whether you decide to read any, or all, or none of the posts by any other member, you need only answer to God and your own conscience. You owe nothing to people whose only goal is robbing you of your peace.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

For the record, HughHoney just seems to be having fun with some people who are maybe a little too intense and is not one of the harassers I will be writing about.

There is wisdom in not replying, but it is difficult for me because these people are participating in a coordinated effort to shame, defame, harrass, intimidate, discredit, criticize, and silence alleged VICTIMS of clergy sexual misconduct/abuse.  Imagine any victim who might even consider coming forward who reads these.  Who wants to deal with these bullies?  And these bullies are real people who likely live in the same area if they are attenders of ECC.  "Will anyone believe me?" is a big enough question for victims, but that has been answered by the rude ECC supporters on here.  Not only will they not be believed, they will be dragged through the mud, attacked, and lied about. (to clarify, many current ECC people on here are very respectful, I'm referring to the ones who are inappropriate and unrelenting in their disparagement of potential victims). 

I sometimes don't respond because unless you want to write that the accusations are all lies and Mark Darling never did anything wrong, they will not acknowledge worth of anything said.  So it IS quite pointless.  However, part of me wants other victims (of any type of abuse by any perpetrator) to see that someone will stand up for them, will stand with them, will at least try to not let the bullies have the last word.  And even this desire of mine has been mocked by some on this forum.

If this was a moderated FB group some people would have undoubtedly been kicked out by now. That's not how this one works so "To Respond, or Not to Respond, that is the question..."

[Huldah]

I fully support anyone's right to respond. If I read something I think needs responding to, then I won't hesitate.

However, to respond, first I have to read. If someone has a record of never saying anything kind or constructive, or of knee-jerk reactions lacking in truth and logic, then for the time being, I consider it a waste of time to even read what they have to say. I may change my mind at some point in the future, especially if there are significant updates to the Mark/Suzanne situation, but for now, I won't make a gift of my time and energy to people whose intent is inflicting pain. (Defending Mark is just their cover story. There's been little to no actual defense offered by any of them.)

[araignee19]

I absolutely believe in defending people who come forward and allege abuse. But I don't think engaging with certain types of people when they try to get a rise out of the defenders is the way to do it. I truly think some of the attackers want your reaction, they want you to say something in your passion that they can fling back, and they want to distract from the core issue. I think by responding to certain types of things and people, we are allowing them to have a strong voice and allowing them to continue to attack.

We should absolutely let people who want to come forward know we will defend them. But we should be careful not to accidentally harm their reputation or distract with pointless circular arguments about side issues in the process of trying to defend. I'm not saying I've been a perfect example of this, but I think this is something God has been showing me. If you want to defend your "side," make sure you don't stoop to the level of the other "side." I would personally love to see everyone participating here hold themselves to that standard.

In our defenses and fighting for what we believe is right, we should be above reproach. And often that means being slow to anger, quick to listen, and not sinning in our anger (however righteous we believe that anger is). 

[araignee19]

Please don't hijack this thread. This thread is about turning the other cheek when insulted and being above reproach, not whether there is coordination in any of this.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Huldah and Araignee19, you make good points.  Very thoughtful.

[Greentruth]

I was thinking about this last night. I was thinking how the disciples took a very painful death over renouncing their faith. And the thousands of martyrs who are executed today rather than turning from Jesus. I think this is what the Bible is defining on turn the other cheek. This is the most effective example of action that brings the lost to except Jesus saving grace. To say GC churches have run Christians away from their faith is sad, and condescending to the strength of the supposed lost Christian. Turn your cheek on what would cause you to stumble and grasp our Lord with all your strength. I don’t doubt that some here have been hurt. Most of us have to some degree. The most painful time in my life brought me to Jesus feet on my knees, with a bleeding cheek that wanted to strike back. Striking back is from the Devil, and of which if he gets a foothold will do unmeasurable damage.