Turn the other cheek

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[araignee19]

Greentruth,
If I'm understanding your post correctly, you are saying that when the Bible says "turn the other cheek," it means not turning away from your faith when you face sufferings? Please let me know if I am reading that wrong and you meant something else.

If that is what you mean: No. That is simply not what those verses (Matthew 38-41) say, although it is a nice thought and I don't disagree with the sentiment. I think you can and should apply Matthew 38-41 to situations where you face suffering for your faith. Apply it by not seeking revenge and by not lashing out. And I think that may be what you are trying to say (?).

But those verses are instructing us not to seek revenge by attacking someone who has attacked you. They are about showing grace (undeserved kindness) to those who have hurt you. This is what we should be doing here. Show kindness even when you feel wronged. When someone says something derogatory towards you, ignore it or respond in kindness.

That being said, calling out faulty theology and teaching is not (necessarily) trying to seek revenge. And defending people is not (necessarily) done to seek revenge. I think you can do both of those things in a way which is consistent with what Jesus is saying here. That is what I am advocating for.

[Godtrumpsall]

Greentruth,
If I'm understanding your post correctly, you are saying that when the Bible says "turn the other cheek," it means not turning away from your faith when you face sufferings? Please let me know if I am reading that wrong and you meant something else.

If that is what you mean: No. That is simply not what those verses (Matthew 38-41) say, although it is a nice thought and I don't disagree with the sentiment. I think you can and should apply Matthew 38-41 to situations where you face suffering for your faith. Apply it by not seeking revenge and by not lashing out. And I think that may be what you are trying to say (?).

But those verses are instructing us not to seek revenge by attacking someone who has attacked you. They are about showing grace (undeserved kindness) to those who have hurt you. This is what we should be doing here. Show kindness even when you feel wronged. When someone says something derogatory towards you, ignore it or respond in kindness.

That being said, calling out faulty theology and teaching is not (necessarily) trying to seek revenge. And defending people is not (necessarily) done to seek revenge. I think you can do both of those things in a way which is consistent with what Jesus is saying here. That is what I am advocating for.

But calling out faulty theology and teaching is purely opinion based.  Believe it or not, but the opinions of some here on the forum are not the gold standard for all theology.  I have seen people here take GCx teachings WAY out of context to fit into their negative view of people or leaders within GCx.   I highly disagree with the theology of Greg Boyd.  Should I be running to his church telling everyone I know about how false and wrong his teaching is?  Should I waste my time writing a blog to expose him? I believe Bill Johnson out of Bethel is way, way off base with what he teaches.  What should I do?  I think he is damaging young people's lives with his teachings.  I pray.  If someone asks my opinion, I will share it in love. 

[araignee19]

Do you see the irony in your post, GTA? Telling me I'm wrong for calling out something as wrong? Sharing your opinion that I should only share my opinion if asked?

Again, you are trying to hijack this thread. This thread is about being above reproach in whatever you feel God is calling you to do, whether that is debate theology, defend the innocent, or anything else. If you wish to discuss a new topic, please start a new thread to discuss it. Thank you.

[Godtrumpsall]

Do you see the irony in your post, GTA? Telling me I'm wrong for calling out something as wrong? Sharing your opinion that I should only share my opinion if asked?

Again, you are trying to hijack this thread. This thread is about being above reproach in whatever you feel God is calling you to do, whether that is debate theology, defend the innocent, or anything else. If you wish to discuss a new topic, please start a new thread to discuss it. Thank you.

The issue is the means by which you feel it is needed to be called out.  That is what I am saying.  I have opinions, you have opinions.  I don't use public platforms to shout my opinions about other brothers and sisters in Christ from the rooftops (well, I guess now I am, but I am a guest here, not in  support of others being here, and will leave once the allegations are settled and I will move on).  How we share those opinions is what matters.  That was my point. 

This has everything to do with  turning the other cheek.  How do we deal with our offenses, our opinions, when others judge us or criticize us, our hurts?  We turn the other cheek, or create an online forum and continually point out the faults of churches and pastors, some of which you have never met, for 12+ years?  Do we forgive 70 times 7, or do we post continually on a forum about our hurts and beliefs of false teachings 70 times 7?  Do we love your neighbors, treat others the way we want to be treated?  These are logical, applicable, spiritual thoughts to ponder. 

[Greentruth]

Another part of what I was trying to say was in response to some saying ECC ran some away from their faith, becoming atheists,agnostic or pursuing a different form of religion. If you have the spirit of joy which comes from Jesus, I don’t believe that you will turn your back on Jesus.  I believe you turn your cheek and go to prayer for whoever our whatever is discouraging you,sharing truths.

I know this stretches the intended thread limit, but I also believe it’s very close in the nature of trusting God.
Another troubling statement I read today that is related was that anyone who has left their faith, or just comes to this form being from any other religion is welcome. Which totally confuses me, as I thought this was a form to warn Christians of false teaching in the Christian sense. This would defeat the purpose I would assume. Are we to coexist in our defense of ECC?  Will Sheria law be allowed in debate? Are we called to turn our cheek, per say, to someone attacking ECC from an atheist standpoint?  I know how to turn the other cheek when someone threatens me, or disagree with me, but not when someone who doesn’t even believe what is being discussed attacks the Church and people we love

[Godtrumpsall]

Another part of what I was trying to say was in response to some saying ECC ran some away from their faith, becoming atheists,agnostic or pursuing a different form of religion. If you have the spirit of joy which comes from Jesus, I don’t believe that you will turn your back on Jesus.  I believe you turn your cheek and go to prayer for whoever our whatever is discouraging you,sharing truths.

I know this stretches the intended thread limit, but I also believe it’s very close in the nature of trusting God.
Another troubling statement I read today that is related was that anyone who has left their faith, or just comes to this form being from any other religion is welcome. Which totally confuses me, as I thought this was a form to warn Christians of false teaching in the Christian sense. This would defeat the purpose I would assume. Are we to coexist in our defense of ECC?  Will Sheria law be allowed in debate? Are we called to turn our cheek, per say, to someone attacking ECC from an atheist standpoint?  I know how to turn the other cheek when someone threatens me, or disagree with me, but not when someone who doesn’t even believe what is being discussed attacks the Church and people we love

Very good points Greentruth. 

[araignee19]

I want to post about something that has been on my mind and heart a lot lately, but I have been debating if it is the right thing to say. So I will say this and you can all make up your own minds the wisdom of my thoughts.

I personally am done responding to anything Digital Lynch Mob, Jeromy Darling, and others like them post from here out (if Jeromy does start posting again). Their posts have been vile, critical, unloving, personal, lashing, and hypocritical attacks against anyone who dares to disagree with them. We will NOT convince them of our viewpoints. I am convinced they have done more to hurt Mark's reputation than anything anyone else has said on this site.

They do not show Christ. They are attacking people instead of ideas. They are attacking and seem to be trying to distract from the search for justice. They say we have made unfair attacks towards Mark. In some cases they may be right, and I would encourage everyone to be very cautions to not fall into personal attacks and speculation against Mark. Focus on known facts. Stay or get on the high ground and stay there at all costs. If you see someone saying something that does fall into attacks or gossip or speculation, send a personal message to call them out. Correct old posts if you realize you said something out of line.

I think by allowing DLM and Jeromy (and any others who are posting similar types of posts) to rant and by refusing to respond to them, we will be taking the high ground. I would like to challenge everyone to stop responding! No matter how good of a point you might have in response. No matter how insulting they have been. Walk away. Do not let them stir the "hornets nest" anymore. Stop letting them direct the conversation. Take away their voice by letting them have the other cheek.

I'm sure this post will draw attacks towards me. I will not respond. Please, no one else respond to the attacks if they come.

Continue to argue theology and call out bad teachings and share personal experiences. But not with them anymore.

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." Proverbs 26:4

Bump.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

 

[Huldah]

But calling out faulty theology and teaching is purely opinion based.  Believe it or not, but the opinions of some here on the forum are not the gold standard for all theology.  I have seen people here take GCx teachings WAY out of context to fit into their negative view of people or leaders within GCx.   I highly disagree with the theology of Greg Boyd.  Should I be running to his church telling everyone I know about how false and wrong his teaching is?  Should I waste my time writing a blog to expose him?

But haven't you also tried to expose false teaching? You posted some pretty strong opinions (your word for it) on the errors of Beth Moore right here on this forum. I don't fault you for that; if you believe she's in error, you're right to speak up. But how is that any different from us exposing false teaching within GC?

You're a lot more like us, GTA, than I think you care to admit.

Edit to add: Sorry, all, I just realized that I'm probably perpetuating a threadjack. I'm open to continuing this discussion on a new thread. If anyone starts such a thread, PM me so I know where to look. Sometimes this forum moves so fast I miss things.

[G_Prince]

Another part of what I was trying to say was in response to some saying ECC ran some away from their faith, becoming atheists,agnostic or pursuing a different form of religion. If you have the spirit of joy which comes from Jesus, I don’t believe that you will turn your back on Jesus.  I believe you turn your cheek and go to prayer for whoever our whatever is discouraging you,sharing truths.

I know this stretches the intended thread limit, but I also believe it’s very close in the nature of trusting God.
Another troubling statement I read today that is related was that anyone who has left their faith, or just comes to this form being from any other religion is welcome. Which totally confuses me, as I thought this was a form to warn Christians of false teaching in the Christian sense. This would defeat the purpose I would assume. Are we to coexist in our defense of ECC?  Will Sheria law be allowed in debate? Are we called to turn our cheek, per say, to someone attacking ECC from an atheist standpoint?  I know how to turn the other cheek when someone threatens me, or disagree with me, but not when someone who doesn’t even believe what is being discussed attacks the Church and people we love

I believe there is a verse on this somewhere. Matthew 5:39? "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also...unless that person is an Atheist, Muslim, or some other non-believer, then anything goes."

[araignee19]

Huldah,

Try this one: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/a-new-question-for-ecc-supporters/.

GTA has not participated on that thread yet, so she may have thoughts she would like to share there. Maybe not.

[Huldah]

Thanks, Arraignee19! I'll pop on over to that thread as soon as I get a chance.

[Godtrumpsall]

But calling out faulty theology and teaching is purely opinion based.  Believe it or not, but the opinions of some here on the forum are not the gold standard for all theology.  I have seen people here take GCx teachings WAY out of context to fit into their negative view of people or leaders within GCx.   I highly disagree with the theology of Greg Boyd.  Should I be running to his church telling everyone I know about how false and wrong his teaching is?  Should I waste my time writing a blog to expose him?

But haven't you also tried to expose false teaching? You posted some pretty strong opinions (your word for it) on the errors of Beth Moore right here on this forum. I don't fault you for that; if you believe she's in error, you're right to speak up. But how is that any different from us exposing false teaching within GC?

You're a lot more like us, GTA, than I think you care to admit.

Edit to add: Sorry, all, I just realized that I'm probably perpetuating a threadjack. I'm open to continuing this discussion on a new thread. If anyone starts such a thread, PM me so I know where to look. Sometimes this forum moves so fast I miss things.

I have posted one time where I used Beth Moore as an example.  It is not a goal of mine, to expose her false teaching, or others.  I may have friends that have her books, in fact I probably have one of her books on my shelf now.  I may have friends that respect her teachings, and value what she has to say and that is just fine.  I don't agree with her, this is my opinion.   It does not consume me.  I have not joined a forum whose sole purpose is to complain about Beth Moore teachings.  I don't feel a need to protect others from her. 

This is how it is different.  VASTLY different. 

[Greentruth]

Another part of what I was trying to say was in response to some saying ECC ran some away from their faith, becoming atheists,agnostic or pursuing a different form of religion. If you have the spirit of joy which comes from Jesus, I don’t believe that you will turn your back on Jesus.  I believe you turn your cheek and go to prayer for whoever our whatever is discouraging you,sharing truths.

I know this stretches the intended thread limit, but I also believe it’s very close in the nature of trusting God.
Another troubling statement I read today that is related was that anyone who has left their faith, or just comes to this form being from any other religion is welcome. Which totally confuses me, as I thought this was a form to warn Christians of false teaching in the Christian sense. This would defeat the purpose I would assume. Are we to coexist in our defense of ECC?  Will Sheria law be allowed in debate? Are we called to turn our cheek, per say, to someone attacking ECC from an atheist standpoint?  I know how to turn the other cheek when someone threatens me, or disagree with me, but not when someone who doesn’t even believe what is being discussed attacks the Church and people we love

I believe there is a verse on this somewhere. Matthew 5:39? "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also...unless that person is an Atheist, Muslim, or some other non-believer, then anything goes."

This would be a good lesson for you who don’t seem to care ANYTHING about turning a cheek. You stated at one point you are an atheist, so in what context do you mock me? I DO follow the Biblical example best I can as a simple sinner. If you read my post of what I experienced you might know this. You, on the other hand have NO platform to judge others.   I know, I’m gone,but when your hard up for smear material and bring up my old posts I’m back. I don’t know what demon drives you, but it must be a painful existence.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

G_Prince, whatever religion or non religion you practice, I value your input as another human being.  Truth is truth no matter who speaks it. 

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Also, you've been here much longer so I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm welcoming you or something.  I just appreciate and understand your humor and the points you make.

[GodisFaithful]

G_Prince,

I'm upset about the way you are being pummeled, it seems that it is pretty much because you are honest about not being a Christian. Wow. It is sickening. I don't get it. But I want to echo what Rebel just said, not that you need a fan club or anything. I really appreciate your contributions, insight, and humor. Thanks.

[Free now]

Ditto, G_Prince. I appreciate your perspective and humor, as well as your honesty.

[Greentruth]

I guess the thread has changed, but being prince brought me onto this again I reiterate. I understand prince AND blonde are pioneers in this form. I would have no problem with that except what they do today, towards the Church and people I love, and who did nothing that I know to deserve it. Maybe you who hitch your horse to their wagon headed down the low road think it’s humorous, but it fact it’s deception is the devils own glory of work.  All life has choices, and along with those the consequences. I believe I experienced at least the same of what some claim, if not more hurtful. I chose the high road, with my horse hitched to Jesus wagon. It’s never to late, as Jesus has plenty of room to hitch another horse. And prince, in this context, you can hitch your horse next to me anytime. Actually, if you would like to hear more in a better atmosphere, I would be more than willing to meet you, any where in the Twin Cities area.  Giddy up

[Greentruth]

Just so it’s understood, it wasn’t at ECC I dealt with pain, on the contrary, I found healing at ECC, and that through trying to help others, not myself. If you look back, I shared a short version. I do pray for those here who hurt, but my deepest sympathy and prayers go to those who are hurt FROM here!