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Author Topic: Weekly Discussion: The Downtown Church  (Read 48850 times)
newcreature
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« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2012, 09:33:06 pm »

It's easy to trivialize that story, because the words "professional wrestling" bring up notions of silly stuff kids watch on TV.

I don't think your story is trivial. Up to this point, I have not doubted your honesty and sincerity. As I have stated in various ways in various posts, I totally disagree with your premise that Christianity is simply a pervasive fable.

I think I'm a little off topic. Sorry about that.

In light of your concern about being off topic, I will continue this discussion (later this week) with you and EAS in the Off Topic forum entitled "Breaking Stereotypes."
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Captein
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« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2012, 09:39:33 pm »

It's easy to trivialize that story, because the words "professional wrestling" bring up notions of silly stuff kids watch on TV.

I don't think your story is trivial. Up to this point, I have not doubted your honesty and sincerity. As I have stated in various ways in various posts, I totally disagree with your premise that Christianity is simply a pervasive fable.

I think I'm a little off topic. Sorry about that.

In light of your concern about being off topic, I will continue this discussion (later this week) with you and EAS in the Off Topic forum entitled "Breaking Stereotypes."

Very good. I'll just say that I don't necessarily believe Christianity is a fable. It just seems more likely. To me. Right now.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2012, 10:34:04 pm »

Dear Coolerthanme,

     It seems from Paul's sadness and fear concerning the spiritual welfare of young believers in Acts 20:28-30 (these verses are used in the post "How do recognize a wolf in sheep's clothing?"), that he KNEW false teachers would come from the outside and from the inside to rob them of their joy and freedom in Christ, to gain a following for themselves.  Apparently, they weren't then and aren't now as few and far between as we would like to think.  Recently Billy Graham's daughter, Anne, highlighted in her video series "Expecting to See Jesus", where she issues a wake-up call using the signs of Jesus' return, that she believes there are many false teachers in the pulpits today.  She discusses this as one of the signs outlined in Matthew 24.  So it might be easier than we realize to get involved with such teaching.  It demonstrates how much Satan hates God's child, and now that he IS SAVED, wants to ship-wreck his present faith and steal the rewards he would definitely experience and gain here and in the next age from practicing it.  Our ACTIVE FAITH is a greater act of COURAGE, and a greater FIGHT in a BLOODY BATTLE than we can now imagine!  

 So, Paul warns his friends with tears and prays for their faith.  And, for us, God's word gives us a record of what false "churches" do to believers.  It calls out the RESULTS OF FALSE TEACHING: the sheep's true loss of overflowing joy  A good friend and colleague who I tried so hard to get into my old GCx church finally said openly to me after several visits and meeting numerous members, "Why would I want to go somewhere where almost everyone seems to be crying on the inside, while smiling on the outside?"  Paul says point blank, "What has happened to all your joy?" (in Galations 4)  Having present active faith produces REAL JOY.

"what has happened to all your joy?"
Galatians 4:15

Do you know what a wise and reliable christian psychologist once told me?
Depression, if not from a chemical imbalance, is caused by LOSS,  it   is    grieving !
.  
It hit me! - - That my loss, back then, was my saviour.
 

What does Paul say he feared would happen to those christians?  That they would be alienated (separated from sweet fellowship and dependence on their Saviour's deep unconditional love) by those who isolated them for their own use The False Teachers had a grand plan to outdo OTHER CHRISTIAN LEADERS to make a "BETTER CHURCH" for personal showing.  The young believers would then slowly drift away as they attempted through their efforts to be acceptable (as they had been told by men) to be "good WORTHY christians"; exchanging their trusting in WHO they really were ALREADY in Christ for WHAT they have deceptively been told (by agents of Satan) that they must actually must DO to prove their devotion or "godliness".  Christ would certainly not forsake them because He NEVER GOES AGAINST His Word.  But that they would slowly desert Him, their HELPER, COUNSELOR, SHEPHERD, and FRIEND.  Because Christ is our only true source of joy, that begins to fade away and they are left with only the flesh to perform things only the SPIRIT through Faith can do.  

The twisted way of life they call christianity becomes a VERY heavy burden.  The very thing to help them, renew them, refresh them and strengthen them HAS BEEN CUT OFF like a separation from a beloved spouse and they experience a BEREAVEMENT.  Their dependence (Present-tense Faith or Active Believing) on Christ and His Word is the only access to the spring of GRACE (ability to obey God) they so desparately need .  Paul is worried they will fall away themselves from depending that very GRACE to live the christian life and thus, MISS OUT on all the joy and strength to actually live the miraculous God has planned for them.  

Anyhow, just wanted you to know that the deception we have experienced is not uncommon to get caught up in according to the scriptures, and we should not condemn ourselves.  But God does say to watch out for it and run for your VERY FAITH.  Perhaps The Great Commission (X=Whatever) Churches should be more appropriately called "The Better Commission Churches, since it is after all, a "better" (different) one than Jesus called us to.

Learning to Wise Up With You,

Janet Easson Martin
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 06:26:07 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Captein
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« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2012, 02:55:23 pm »

Sorry for not updating this as I promised, but things have been a little hectic. I am currently in the throes of starting a nonprofit, among other things, but I will post in the next couple of weeks with some new stories to tell.
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Linda
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« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2013, 12:36:08 pm »

I know this is an old thread, but my attention recently came to the message referenced by DevastatedTC in comment #10 in this thread, so I skimmed through it.

At around the 29 minute mark, the speaker gives the old GC line about how character matters and how a leader who is having an affair wouldn't preach on sexual purity. This may or may not be true, but the GC point has always been that their system of "recognizing" men based on "character" combined with their system of "plurality of elders" would prevent this from happening.

That sounds good, on the surface, and I used to buy into it.

However (and I have mentioned this before), as it became evident to us that we had to leave our GC church due to faulty theology, we had one last meeting with a couple of ECC pastors. One of the pastors sits on the national board. I pointed out to him that their system could result in cover-ups of sin and gave the example that it would be very possible that a pastor/leader could have had an affair and the elders would have kept this from the congregation.

This pastor, MD, who sits on the national board said, "I'm sure it's happened."

Let that sink in a minute. If this is true and it has happened, then the system of plurality has been used to cover up sin and let unqualified men continue in positions of leadership.

I challenge everyone to ask their pastor whether or not they are aware of sexual sin on the part of pastors and leaders being handled "internally" and not exposed to members of the congregation. And I sincerely hope the answer is no.
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