What's your list?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Genevieve]

In another thread, I wrote the list of what I'm against in GC:

--The high-pressure culture ("Do this our, er, I mean, God's way!")
--The system for raising leaders
--The amount of authority leaders, especially at a young age
--The teaching that says you should obey your leaders no matter what (unless it's sin)
--The lack of seminary training
--The theology about women and how that theology is put into practice
--The hush-hush culture where it's slander to talk about problems or anything negative about GC

I dislike some giving, dating, and parenting (most of this!) practices but could live with some of it if there wasn't so much pressure to conform.

So, that's my "against" list. What's yours?

[LucyB]

On my list would be:

1. An emphasis on obeying certain rules instead of enjoying God's presence.
2. The emphasis on family that says a successful family is one that is not divorced, whether or not there is abuse. There is only one type of family that is a "good" family. A divorced person who receives peace and guidance from God is regarded with disdain instead of respect.
3. The lack of appreciation for higher education, especially for women and pastors. It doesn't make sense to teach kids to distrust public education, and then expect them to function within the framework of a secular university.
4. I don't have anything against any one person per se, but the atmosphere is one that numbs people to the point where they don't recognize the inanity of such a thing as the divorce poll (its inappropriate place, i.e. alongside the major doctrines of the church, its bias, its irrelevance).

[EverAStudent]

Keeping in mind that my list originates from the 1970's and may no longer apply:

• all men are given the four gifts of deacon, prophet, pastor/elder, and apostle sequentially as they progress in spirituality
• the board of national elders function as apostles
• GC is the only organization of churches that will accomplish the Great Commission
• elders can "know your heart" and read your secret motives/thoughts and judge you on the basis of their read
• it is permissible to lie or mislead secular authorities if it advances GC goals or saves GC money to do so
• anyone can be disciplined/excommunicated as being "factious" if they disagree with any opinion, decision, policy, or teaching of an elder
• elders can functionally choose your mate for you
• seminary education is usually unnecessary if not inadvisable for pastors/elders since the local church will train their own or the national elders will train them
• joining a local GC church is to commit to it for life or until they throw you out

[puff of purple smoke]

Here's mine. I was there for several years in the mid 2000's:

• Treatment of people as projects, utilitarianism, lack of love
• Unquestioned submission to "spiritual" leaders, "even if they are wrong"
• Elitist opinions about their movement as compared to "other churches"
• Deception when it comes to the group's past
• Intense legalism, fear of man the driving factor of "spiritual growth"
• Have to echo many that EverAStudent wrote because I experienced many of the same things:
      * elders can "know your heart" and read your secret motives/thoughts and judge you on the basis of their read
      * elders can functionally choose your mate for you
      * seminary education is usually unnecessary if not inadvisable for pastors/elders since the local church will train their own or the national elders will train them
      * joining a local GC church is to commit to it for life or until they throw you out
  

• Weird understanding of the "Holy Spirit" -- almost to the point that it didn't functionally have any purpose in your life because elders had replaced its role
• Watered down "milky" sermons about only a small handful of topics. No deep teaching.
• The bait and switch new members underwent, starting with a period of love bombing and ending in basically abandonment if the member didn't respond positively to the GC message (also see utilitarianism above)
• The lack of faith, an idea that God isn't going to do anything so we have to do it all ourselves (there never came out and said this, but I felt it was strongly implied)

[BTDT]

As far as my list, read Puff's post.  Please be clear on this:  my list is based in my 1980s experience.  I do not have such a list for my 2000s experience, because I did not see any such problems in that GC church.  It was a great place, IMO.

Puff, I'm really sad that your experience was so recent.  Like I said in another post, some of 'em never did change.  Why the national leadership still tolerates that is just beyond me, and undermines any and all confidence in them I might have otherwise had.

[Genevieve]

Those are all good ones! Wow, seeing it all together like that paints a pretty scary picture.

[Immortal_Raven]

Nice lists, very nice.  A couple more thoughts from my personal experience:

-The rules for male/female interaction.  Specifically the lack of trust in this area.

-The practice of obtaining pastoral approval before dating someone.

-The changing of sermon topics to encourage more "giving".  (Our bank account has less than 3,000 in it, we need more money.)  I grew up at a church where they were perpetually 15,000-25,000 behind.

-The "ramming God down your throat" methodology.  Specifically, you say something that they don't agree with and they starting attacking you claiming it's "God's Will".

A couple that were already mentioned but bare repeating:
-Parenting practices.
-You must be loyal to your local church for life.
-the lack of seminary training and lack of encouragement to seek it.
-The unquestioned authority of elders and leaders.

-Immortal_Raven

[ForwardMove]

I’d add to the list bad teachings, bad teachings and more bad teachings.

-   During a sermon, a pastor actually said there are no more [or hardly any] false teachings nowadays. I was so shocked when I heard this, I couldn’t hear the rest of his message. How dare he make such statement when the Bible is full of warning about false teachers and deceptions. From that message, I concluded the pastor was not about God’s agenda.

-   Another pastor preached on the parable of 10 virgins waiting for the bridegroom. He distorted the story and said that the 5 foolish virgins fell asleep. The pastor claimed Jesus rebuked them for sleeping and made the sermon about how we needed to do good work. The way he distorted the message of the parable from being about persevering faith to making the people think they need to do more good work made me angry. The Bible says all 10 virgins fell asleep. The foolish virgins did not bring extra oil. This kind of distorting of scripture happens regularly, along with misinterpreting scripture to fit the pastors’ agenda.

These two examples are from within the last year.

[Innerlight]

Forward Move:

Are you talking about Matthew 25, and the Parable of the Ten Bridesmaids?  I think that is widely accepted to be a parable about the Parousia of Christ (i.e. second coming). 

Five were wise and ready, and five were not.  True, all slept, but five were prepared for the event, and the other five were not.  A warning to be prepared, it will happen suddenly and unexpectedly, and the door to the wedding banquet will be shut.   

Following Jesus's (Olivet Discourse) on his second coming, and signs at the end of the age, and finishing with the Judgement of the Nations, I'm struggling to see how you could interpet it any other way.   

[EverAStudent]

ForwardMove, it is amusing / frightening that they think there is less reason to be discerning these days than in past.  Doctrinal aberrations seem to be everywhere!

ForwardMove and Innerlight, yes, the parable is "about" being prepared for the return of Christ, or being shut out of the great marriage celebration.  There is a sad tendency to allegorize this parable and then to moralize the allegorized "details," and in so doing, to miss its main point.  The oil stands for nothing.  The lamps stand for nothing.  The number 10 stands for nothing.  The meaning of "be prepared" for the coming of the Groom is more than obvious as the principal point of the story. 

What is interesting is that the ones who had prepared could not help the ones who had not prepared.  Those who allegorize this parable want to invent stories about the selfish nature of those who had prepared but would not share.  That is beyond the real point of the story.  The point is that if YOU have not prepared for YOURSELF, no one can help you at the moment the Groom comes.  This supports the "be prepared in advance" message of the parable. 

[Innerlight]

I agree, and yes there is a tendency to read way more into a parable than is truly there.  Having said that, there is the "story", but then it's meaning, which only the discerning truly understand...Jesus says so himself.  Sometimes Jesus explains his parables, and sometimes not.  I agree, parables are not allegorys (where things have all kinds of meanings), but a story along side a story. 

since we are on the topic, my friends in GCC used the Parable of the Lost Son to justify tough love to their son (on advice of a pastor), when the true meaning is the Jewish priestly aristocracy's unwillingness to come into the kingdom. 

so...are you READY!  I am, come quicly Lord Jesus!!!!

[ForwardMove]

The danger I see in the two examples of bad teachings is that people are being taught to not worry about discerning what they are being fed (spiritually) but to focus doing good works (man-centered gospel).  I don’t believe that is the way to prepare for Jesus’ second coming.

[MidnightRider]

...
yes, the parable is "about" being prepared for the return of Christ, or being shut out of the great marriage celebration.  There is a sad tendency to allegorize this parable and then to moralize the allegorized "details," and in so doing, to miss its main point. 
...

Correct, but let us at least acknowledge this is not GCx-specific. This is one of many, many examples of how the New Testament has been "de-eschatologized" by many, many readers through the centuries.

[Innerlight]

Or conversely so much mis-information about end-times, e.g. "left Behind", that we are all scratching our heads. 

[EverAStudent]

Midnight, you are correct.  The meaning of the parable of the virgins is often butchered by pastors in a wide variety of denominations, not simply GCx.  The problem with GCx is that fewer of their pastors will ever be able to see their mistakes with it, or the mistakes of their fellow peers with it, because so few have been genuinely trained how to read the parables accurately. 

[Innerlight]

Well here is another example, also from Matthew 25.  The oft quoted "Parable of the Talents".  Any serious student of the Bible, or has a commentary, would know that this is clearly talking about money, and how we use it.  I correctly heard this taught to me, and the pastor went out of his way to re-iterate the parable being about money and stewardship, with the parallel story (the other meaning) in the context of the previous and following parables in Matthew 25 clearly Jesus teaching us to be ready for his second coming (parousia).  "The master went away..."

So a friend of mine, and a member of a GCC church, tells me this was taught as we are given talents (drumming, guitar playing, etc...), and we better use these talents for good, as we will be held accountable for them....  OK, I get that, and I see how you could see it that way, and you know, if it makes you stop and think...well that's a good thing, but that is reading something into a parable that isn't there, and yes it is watering down end times eschatology.   

Jesus is returning, and yes we will be held accountable.  He will judge.  Re-reading the parable made me realize I better step my game up as well. 

[Linda]

For the inaccurate teaching category:

The early believers in Acts. Do you know what it says about them? They met day after day in the temple courts and in their homes breaking bread with gladness and sincerity of heart. Here you've got, I don't know if you know the story of a little bit of what happened, but let me just describe it to you.

You've got 3,000 people in a crowd of maybe 50,000 people. Maybe it was 100, but we'll just say 50,000. Peter stands up and he shares and when he preaches the gospel, this mysterious supernatural power happens that, let's take this crowd right here. Let's multiply it times 50,000 people. We got Ethiopians here, we got Persians here, we got Russians here, we got Chinese here and me, I'm Peter, and I stand up and preach the gospel. And, the Chinese person hears me talk in their own language. That's the gift of tongues. The Arabic person hears me talk in their language. The Russian person hears me talking in their language, but I'm only speaking in one language. And when I give the alter call, 3,000 people, Russians, Arabs, Ukrainians, Ethiopians, Romans, they get saved, they convert to Jesus Christ.

This is not what the second chapter of Acts says. It says:

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place.  And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting.  And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.  And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Revisionist early church history? I think so. They did not hear a different language, they spoke a different language. This may seem small, and I know the tongues thing scares people, but you can't change the meaning of the words in the Bible when you want because they don't fit your theology. And when you get the basics wrong while teaching new believers or high school students, it's a big deal. Actually, it's a big deal anytime you get the basics wrong!