What happened to this place?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Lost Creature_Final]

Hey, this is Lost Creature_Final, formally Lost Creature, LostCreature2, and LostCreature3 (password problems, yet again).

Since GCx's official disbanding in 2020, this forum has slowly become less and less active, with only a few members, regularly posting.

That being said, of those few members, I have noticed that Janet has kept posting others stories in such a way that it has almost become spam, as she is the only one talking and sharing her opinion. I believe that this may be driving new members away, even though this appears to be a heartfelt attempt to keep this forum alive and relevant. What has made myself and few others uncomfortable with these posts is not only how much of the advice has come across as proselytization, but that these stories that she shares seem to be shared without the consent or permission of the original poster. This has also led to more garbled forum threads that I would imagine may be difficult for newer members to navigate.

I know none of us want to see this place fade into obscurity, nor do we want our stories to disappear as the years go on.

But, at this point, we need to figure out what the future of this forum is going forward, now that GCx is dying a slow and painful death (many of the remaining churches are losing members quickly and leadership is burning out in a way that the new efforts to rebrand are failing fast).

We have a few options, including the new Reddit subreddit that was started a few months ago by silasnelson. We should also consider creating a legacy page that contains concentrated stories both from ex-members with their explicit permission.

Many of us have moved on and our living happily away from all the destruction that GCx that caused us. We should never forget what happened and who GCx was, but we need to find a different way to tell our stories and share the story of GCx without curious eyes having to scroll through countless forum threads to figure out what happened.

[Linda]

Hi Lost Creature.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is that there is no censorship. People have the freedom to share their thoughts freely. Challenging ideas is great and helpful. Judging motives (calling people bitter, or haters, etc.) has happened over the years and is never helpful.

As far as I'm concerned, people are free to speak their mind about theology (you may call this proselytizing) and I am free to agree or disagree with them. Just like I am free to agree or disagree with anything you say. In high control groups, disagreeing gets you removed from the group or publicly shamed. We saw that with the Darling situation. Many of us had our motives/character judged in ad hominem arguments (we were called bitter, or liars, spiritual mast********).

It is not my job to figure out the future of the forum. I'm just glad it is here and people have the freedom to speak their mind. And I am thankful that Janet is here. This forum was a way for me to process the trauma I had about broken trust with spiritual leaders and posting helped me process. It took many years. I got publicly shamed for posting. It added to the trauma.

[Lost Creature_Final]

Hi Lost Creature.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is that there is no censorship. People have the freedom to share their thoughts freely. Challenging ideas is great and helpful. Judging motives (calling people bitter, or haters, etc.) has happened over the years and is never helpful.

As far as I'm concerned, people are free to speak their mind about theology (you may call this proselytizing) and I am free to agree or disagree with them. Just like I am free to agree or disagree with anything you say. In high control groups, disagreeing gets you removed from the group or publicly shamed. We saw that with the Darling situation. Many of us had our motives/character judged in ad hominem arguments (we were called bitter, or liars, spiritual mast********).

It is not my job to figure out the future of the forum. I'm just glad it is here and people have the freedom to speak their mind. And I am thankful that Janet is here. This forum was a way for me to process the trauma I had about broken trust with spiritual leaders and posting helped me process. It took many years. I got publicly shamed for posting. It added to the trauma.

Please understand, I am not trying to get anyone censored.
What is happening here is very different then what GCx did to us (honestly, that needs to stop being an excuse by anyone when there is any disagreement here), but I also believe that if one member is the only one posting their opinion and is also posting other members stories without their permission, that is an issue that needs to be discussed.

This does not take away from Janets story or her experience or what she believes. She is a part of this forum and that is not something I am trying to take away from her.

But if this is to be a forum where all ex-members are free to post their mind, it needs to be a place where all ex-members are welcomed...

Is it possible that this is just a difference in generations and how different age groups see things? It seems that the younger ones here (40 and younger) are wanting to process our experiences differently, whereas everyone else (40 and older) seem to believe that everything is fine as is on this forum.

I'll be honest, since I started talking with people here back in 2018, that is one thing that doesn't seem to have changed. And it has been the one thing that has kept me from being active here and feeling like this is a safe place to learn beyond what happened in the older days. And that's something that could explain why new members don't stay. They don't feel like it's safe to post. Not because they're afraid that their former GCx Leader or friends will see their post. But because they're afraid that their experiences will be no longer be theirs to share.

Again, maybe I am out of line. But I am expressing how I feel. I came here back in 2018 for answers and was told this was not a safe place for someone like me to process it all. That is not a great look when you are trying to wake people up from the system of GCx and the damage they've done.

This place could've been a place where there was support and shared stories and experiences. But, it continues to be a place where newcomers who are struggling do not feel welcome to share their experiences honestly or to seek comradery with fellow survivors.

All the remaining GCx churches are slowly dying, as members leave as a result of what they've experienced.
If they have no where they feel safe enough to share, then it is sadly likely that their stories will die as they leave.

[Huldah]

Since GCx's official disbanding in 2020, this forum has slowly become less and less active, with only a few members, regularly posting.

I've often wondered whether this forum has outlived its usefulness. It was so active back when I first came here. What an enormous blessing to discover so many other people who understood what GCx was like. And what a relief to know that it wasn't just me, and I wasn't crazy or imagining things.

I agree that there's not a lot of organization here. It's hard to find things, and the search engine is abysmal. (A few weeks ago I posted a thread on How to Search This Forum, http://forum.gcmwarning.com/announcements-feedback-technical-support/how-to-search-this-forum/.) And some people find the software hard to use in terms of quotes, embedding links, etc.

At least, on the plus side, there are no ads and none of the censorship or dubious fact checking that plague the big social media sites.

I'm honestly amazed every year when Puff renews the site, and I'm so grateful that he's willing to do this out of his own pocket, just to benefit the tiny number of people who come here.

Being able to add hashtags to each post would be a great feature. The software doesn't support them, but using the search tips I provided, they might work. It would probably be best if someone established some sort of protocol we could all follow, such as #gcxhistory vs. variants like #gcx_history, #historyofgcx, and so forth. After I post this message, I'm going to check and see if the hashtags work in a search.

[Huldah]

Update. The hashtag didn't work with an Internet search, but it worked with the forum software search.

[Lost Creature_Final]

Since GCx's official disbanding in 2020, this forum has slowly become less and less active, with only a few members, regularly posting.

I've often wondered whether this forum has outlived its usefulness. It was so active back when I first came here. What an enormous blessing to discover so many other people who understood what GCx was like. And what a relief to know that it wasn't just me, and I wasn't crazy or imagining things.

I agree that it did seem to be really booming before 2019.
And it looked like it was a safe place to share their experiences and support one another at that time.

Yes, I am thankful that this place exists, at the very least, to see that I wasn't the only one who experienced these things. Also, to find information about specific churches and leadership.

That time seems to have passed.
I don't want this place to shutdown, as it is part of our proof beyond our own experiences that something happened years before most of us left.
If there were a way to archive it and make it easier to read, that would be great.
But, again, what's missing is a place where survivors feel safe to share their stories again.  

[Huldah]

Is it possible that this is just a difference in generations and how different age groups see things? It seems that the younger ones here (40 and younger) are wanting to process our experiences differently, whereas everyone else (40 and older) seem to believe that everything is fine as is on this forum.

I think you're on to something with the age difference.

Some of us older members here were raised by fathers who fought in World War II. Some of us watched our big brothers or our classmates being drafted and sent to Viet Nam. To us, safety primarily means physical survival. We can understand feeling unwelcome on a forum, but unsafe? It really is a huge paradigm shift.

[Linda]

I want to echo my thanks to Puff for keeping this site going all these years. Most of us have never met Puff, but I'm absolutely sure that Puff's funding and moderating this site had helped many become free.

Also, I assume people are aware of the fact that public comments on a public forum do not require permission to quote so I'm not following your point that Janet needs to get permission from people to quote things they said on other threads on this forum.

Also, I definitely agree that this is not a "safe" place in the sense that people who disagree may make threats of various kinds. I was listed as number 1 on a list of who to sue. That was fun. I was called a liar. I knew I wasn't lying, but people who don't know me might believe that lie. There was even a veiled physical threat (such that my family had a plan of what to do should certain people come to the door).

I believe that all ideas should be on the table and people should not call people names or make judgments about their character or motives. I also believe that people get to state their beliefs as often as they want/need.

[Huldah]

The big social media sites place restrictions on what can be posted; in some cases they practice outright censorship. It sounds like people under 40 have mostly grown up with that. But others have grown up valuing free speech. Each side probably thinks that the other side is clueless and wrong.

So how do you choose between safety and freedom? Either one has risks.
 
From what I've seen, safety is about setting up favored groups who can't be criticized, versus unfavored groups who are fair game for criticism. Whereas in free speech, everyone has a shot at speaking up. True, no one is protected from criticism, but then, everyone is allowed to defend himself (or herself) from criticism as well as to offer criticism of their own. With free speech, we're all on an even footing. It's a more equitable system. But if you're accustomed to safety, freedom probably feels weird and wrong at first.

[Lost Creature_Final]

I believe that all ideas should be on the table and people should not call people names or make judgments about their character or motives. I also believe that people get to state their beliefs as often as they want/need.

All right then...let me share what I believe...

I believe that unless something changes, it's just going to be you 3 (Linda, Hudlah, and Janet) here and this place will fade away into obscurity.
I believe that because of your hubris and unwillingness to allow any change beyond what already is here on this forum, survivors will go elsewhere for help.

I believe that while no one can take away your own stories of leaving GCx and the spiritual abuse you encountered, you have taken away the opportunity for others to share their own stories.
I believe that when Janet shares other members stories (and edits it to fit in with her thoughts and proclamations),
it takes away their voices and is not respectful to their journey and autonomy.

I believe that unless something changes, or unless there is even a willingness to change for the sake of all the GCx Survivors here, I am done here and with this place.

[Linda]

I believe that because of your hubris and unwillingness to allow any change beyond what already is here on this forum, survivors will go elsewhere for help.

What are you talking about? "Unwillingness to allow any change"? We don't moderate this forum or have any say in how it is structured. We have as much control as you do. You do understand that, right?


Calling people proud or arrogant is not a way to make this a safe place either, but I understand that name calling and shaming people into removing their posts are part of the game.

I'm glad silas started a GCC reddit that provides an outlet for those who do not choose to post here.

[Huldah]

I believe that unless something changes, it's just going to be you 3 (Linda, Hudlah, and Janet) here and this place will fade away into obscurity.

I'm actually not too worried about that. This forum was always pretty small and obscure to begin with. I wish it were still as active and vibrant as it once was, but times change, and people move on. More than once, it's seemed as if this forum has outlived its usefulness, so I'm not too fazed by predictions that it will just fade away, since it's been on that gradual trajectory for several years now. I will miss it if that happens, though.

I believe that when Janet shares other members stories (and edits it to fit in with her thoughts and proclamations), it takes away their voices and is not respectful to their journey and autonomy.

I have no doubt that if any of those members contacted Janet and asked her to delete their quotes, she'd do it. (Edit to add: by "edit", I assume you mean "excerpt." I don't think you're suggesting that she actually changes the text, but your wording is ambiguous there.) That said, can you cite any specific examples where she "edits it to fit in with her thoughts" in such a way as to misrepresent what the writer was saying?

[Janet Easson Martin]

This place has been a godsend to so many people. It has given so many silenced victims a place to finally speak. Some even write here to tell about how it has been a part of their recovery from the spiritual abuse of GCx Churches. Some we know of are quietly grateful. The viewership of this site has ebbed and flowed. There are still a rather consistent number of pages being viewed each day. There are significantly less writers in this season. Among many longtime regular writers are Linda and Huldah whom I admire for their kindness, patience, selflessness, listening, research, and outreach here. They practice much hospitality and grace toward all. These women are very good and more than fair in discussing matters intelligently that pertain to this Forum. They appreciate both sides of a logical argument and help many discussions here by pointing out when they are not logical, asking questions to better understand the poster. They, among many others, have been invaluable to the benefit of the De-Commissioned Forum in exposing and warning of the spiritual abuse practiced in “GCx” Churches. I have been honored to know them and learn through them on this website.

I don’t at all appreciate the recent twisted labeling and untrue statements that have been made about them. Fortunately, their posts are record that these accusations are unwarranted and untrue. Harassment and threatening are not welcome on this site. Please take this as a warning. Future slander may reported to the administrator to either delete the offending post or block the poster.

[araignee19]

That being said, of those few members, I have noticed that Janet has kept posting others stories in such a way that it has almost become spam, as she is the only one talking and sharing her opinion. I believe that this may be driving new members away, even though this appears to be a heartfelt attempt to keep this forum alive and relevant. What has made myself and few others uncomfortable with these posts is not only how much of the advice has come across as proselytization, but that these stories that she shares seem to be shared without the consent or permission of the original poster. This has also led to more garbled forum threads that I would imagine may be difficult for newer members to navigate.

Really not sure why that couldn’t have been a private message to Janet. She is free to quote other people’s publicly posted statements. If anyone would rather their content not be quoted, they are free to remove it, add a request not to quote it, or message Janet and ask her to exclude it.

Also, not sure who you think the “we” that needs to “fix” this forum is. Feel free to create something new or use Reddit if you think that would be more beneficial.