When pastors wield scripture like a preschooler with a pistol.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol

[EverAStudent]

Interesting article.  I think he seeks the wrong solution.  Pastors who weild unusually strong authority exist in both denominational and indendent church traditions.  Many lay persons weild extraordinary power as well, without ever having been ordained.  The solution is not more centralized control in a tiered hierarchy, as the author advocates, but selecting men for the pastorate who display a pattern of compassion and seeking counsel. 

I have watched numerous pastors convert to one new doctrine or another (Christian Hedonism is a prime example, along with contemporary apostleship) and drag the church kicking and screaming into ruin to impose that doctrine on the church.  What seems to happen without fail is that as the new doctrine becomes established it also becomes law, and those who do not convert are harrassed out of the church.  Everyone becomes judged in accord with their enthusiasm for the new doctrine. 

Ultimately the congregation must take responsibility.  They can appeal to their pastors, they can confront their pastors, and ultimately they can leave the church which is a de facto firing of the pastor, at least it is firing him from being your pastor.  Appeals, confrontations, and leaving are not fun or easy, but those are the biblical solutions the author seeks.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I think he was opening the door for congregational (maybe I'm using the wrong word here, I'm going for democratic?) rule too.  I know a lot of people wouldn't necessarily be drawn to a denomination and all denominations have their problems as well.  I just found the article to be almost point for point my line of thinking on the subject.  We joined a church with a hierarchy and also a conservative view on doctrine.  GC scared us off forever of the "person going off in the corner and having a revelation" way of doing things.  Now it is really important to me, personally (I know there are other ways to see that, and I'm completely supportive), to have a consistent body of belief on the big things and a "chalk it up to mystery" way of thinking on the miraculous things.  I was turned off by the scientific explanations for things that are supposed to require faith not explanation.  And I appreciate having someone to go to for grievances.  Not that it means anything will happen though!  But at least it's okay to disagree and not considered "unholy unity'.  In our church the business side is completely separate from the spiritual side as well.  The priest is a member (high ranking, his opinion is valued greatly) of the board, but the women and men on the board have say over things and are elected.  So there really isn't a spiritual weight given to things like the color of carpet or things printed in the bulletin.  The priest is responsible for the spiritual life of the church, but we have the freedom to disagree, bring things up, and even a little power to change things because he willingly "submits" or "goes along with" the council's ideas on things.  I love that the board isn't overtly spiritual, but is practical. 

Obviously not everyone will go for the hierarchy in a church, but my experience has been positive.  I think the most interesting thing was the honestly and freedom people feel to disagree.  It seems that no one is cowering in fear, and that is probably my favorite part of my new church.  I don't have to cower.  NICE!

[Linda]

Interesting post, Agatha. I've been following the Internet Monk's battle with cancer, but had missed this guest post.

My take on the post is that he was exhorting pastors and Bible teachers on the importance of proper Biblical interpretation and application.

The evangelical world has an authority problem. Protestants subscribe to Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”) as our source of authority for faith and practice, but we have far too little appreciation for proper interpretation and wise application of the Bible’s teaching. And too many churches and pastors, especially in the nondenominational or independent Christian world have little or no guidance in the process. The pastor or a small group of leaders, with the explosive power of the Bible in their hands, can easily use it to wound others and harm the church.

“Scripture Alone” does not mean “My Bible and Me Alone.” Scripture is meant to be studied, interpreted, and applied within a community of faith that honors and respects history and tradition, the larger Body of Christ, and the wise counsel of respected spiritual overseers.

Relating this to GC, I think a number of problems in their theology can be attributed to mishandling of Scripture. Certainly, the commitment to life and complete obedience to the pastor come from faulty interpretation/application.

It also reminded me of the importance of having as accurate a translation as you possibly can. I've always wondered why GC churches like to study from The Message or the NLT.

I enjoy hearing D. A. Carson speak. I've heard him live twice and both times he's mentioned something that his father once told him (that Jesse Jackson later quoted out of context!). Carson said, about the Bible, "Text without a context becomes a pretext for a proof text." I find that little saying very helpful to remember when reading the Bible or pondering a sermon.

[anonymoustoday]

stopped reading the internetmonk years ago when he posted he did not believe in the inerrency of the bible.  bunch of people posted disagreements so he closed replies to only those he approved of.  not worth reading since.  sorry to hear he has cancer.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I enjoy hearing D. A. Carson speak. I've heard him live twice and both times he's mentioned something that his father once told him (that Jesse Jackson later quoted out of context!). Carson said, about the Bible, "Text without a context becomes a pretext for a proof text." I find that little saying very helpful to remember when reading the Bible or pondering a sermon. 
 
 
 

That's good to remember.


I am interested in his inerrant thoughts or non-inerrancy thoughts.  Too bad about the cancer.

[Linda]

Anonymoustoday,

The Internet Monk didn't write this. Because he is ill, he has guest bloggers doing some posts.

What I understood the message of this post to be is that mishandling the Word of God can hurt people, so be careful. I agree with this point both in theory and from experience.

My life has been affected negatively many times by spiritual leaders who have mishandled the Word of God.

[AgathaL'Orange]

The pastor or a small group of leaders, with the explosive power of the Bible in their hands, can easily use it to wound others and harm the church.

This raises several questions:

■In an “autonomous” congregation, which eschews “tradition,” what theologically sound and historically proven practices are there to provide perspective, structure, and guidance to a pastor and members of the congregation?
■In a small-town congregation, what pastoral mentor or overseer is available to tell a young minister, “Look, you may think you’ve discovered something in the Bible, but with regard to scriptural priorities, this is way down the list of things for a minister in your setting and situation to be concerned about.”
■In a nondenominational congregation, what experience or counsel from the larger community of faith is available to help them work through an issue that other churches have dealt with already?
“Scripture Alone” does not mean “My Bible and Me Alone.” Scripture is meant to be studied, interpreted, and applied within a community of faith that honors and respects history and tradition, the larger Body of Christ, and the wise counsel of respected spiritual overseers.

Instead, we have too many maverick ministers recklessly taking what they find on the bedside table and firing into the crowd that gathers at the church.

For some reason this rang true with me.  It was kind of like the "Aha!" that explained my joining a church with a governing structure over the pastors.  As we've seen, there is no one to "go to" when teaching goes awry in GC.  So they should be even MORE careful and mindful of what they are teaching.  Yet they shun seminary or outside influence.  It seems natural that they would fall away from orthodox evangelical teaching.

[G_Prince]

One of the things I enjoy about my liturgical church is that the scriptural teaching is done within the hymns and the litrugy itself. There really isn't much preaching at all...and zero chance of anyone saying anything crazy. I tend to be a liberal guy, but I really like going to a traditional, conservative church.