Greetings from Kansas

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[ResistingTheResistance]

Hello folks!

I attended one of the newest church plants, RW's current church in Manhattan, KS for about a year.  I wasn't terribly involved, mostly because I had some difficulty accepting some of the church's opinions on things, and that I actually had a life outside of church activities.  It has been quite enlightening to see that my observations/the fact that some of the teachings gave me the wibblies weren't all that far off base.  And there I was, thinking that this was a potentially isolated incident.

So, greetings!

[EverAStudent]

Greetings right back at ya!  And welcome to the forum.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Welcome!  Glad you averted disaster!

[G_Prince]

Hello folks!

I attended one of the newest church plants, RW's current church in Manhattan, KS for about a year.  I wasn't terribly involved, mostly because I had some difficulty accepting some of the church's opinions on things, and that I actually had a life outside of church activities.  It has been quite enlightening to see that my observations/the fact that some of the teachings gave me the wibblies weren't all that far off base.  And there I was, thinking that this was a potentially isolated incident.

So, greetings!

Thanks for posting! Do you still attend or have you quite going? What are some of the things that bothered you? What's the situation down there now that Pat Sokoll is in Colorado? Sorry I'm nosey! 

[ResistingTheResistance]

Being nosey is fine!  Part of the reason I wanted to post was so that I could answer any questions people had regarding the church in Manhattan, KS.

I started attending back at the beginning of Summer 09, when the church was about a year old.  I no longer attend, but I have a number of friends who do and I am fairly concerned about them. 

I was drawn in by the group of guys that I knew that attended there.  They were so cool and trendy, totally living the Christian/Hipster lifestyle (semi-affectionately dubbed "Chri-psters").  I really liked Pat Sokoll's teaching style, always felt I got something out of the sermons he gave.  After he left, I stopped seriously attempting to be involved.  Rick, even though I am sure he is a gifted individual in many ways, even admitted on multiple occasions that teaching isn't his primary gift.  I grew up in the city, I didn't ever connect with his numerous farming tangents.  Oh man, the tangents.

But those were just minor things that I had problems with, more just my personal preference than anything else.  The main problem that I had was with the attitude towards women that I started picking up on a few months in.  I even recall one sermon given regarding leadership that if I, as a woman, wanted to pursue leadership, "this isn't the church for it."  Now, I don't know how I feel about women pastors, having never had one.  And I'm not really the leader sort, but I think that a church should listen when a woman had something to say, because I do believe that God speaks to women and does reveal revelations to either gender.  Funny thing is, I used to think that I was traditional in my views of marriage roles.  Even funnier is the fact that I had multiple conversations with some of my female friends in the congregation less than a year ago and we were on very similar pages with gender roles and equality, but lately they all seem to have submission to menfolk on the mind.  Funny, right?  I know a few dating couples in the congregation, but the overarching mindset regarding pre-marriage seems to be "group hangout, group hangout, group hangout, court for a short amount of time with the blessing of the leadership, engaged."

Another problem I had was the fact that while most of the congregation are college age, relatively few attend college.  I have to admit, they're getting better about it, but I feel like they're all constantly on the verge of dropping out.  For a while there it was pretty bad, the young men in the group kept dropping out and jumping from job to job.  They seem to be headed in the education route for now, but it's all temporary, which leads into a third frustrating thing.  My friends came from a wide range of backgrounds, and, as far as I could tell, had a wide range of goals in mind.  All of a sudden, they're all feeling the call to church plant.  Which is why all the educational goals are short-lived, because they'll be headed to Lawrence, KS (another nearby college town) or Wichita, KS within the next two years to plant churches there.  There really isn't much room within the church for any dreams or goals other than to spread Great Commission churches.

That was the real reason that my attention was drawn to GCC churches and the potential problems therein.  Another friend of mine recently made the "migration" (escape?) from the GCC church to the church that I've been attending since this summer, and we got to talking about the church we had been attending and GCC.  My friend wasn't feeling the call to church plant, and would have been totally willing to stay and build up the church that would be staying, but eventually my friend got frustrated because the church had nothing for them to do.  I hadn't even heard about all the scandal in GCC's past, (not surprising, considering how much they seem to smooth over it), but many of the old complaints resonated. 

That's a brief overview of things from an outsider's perspective, since I haven't attended the church for about 5 months now.

[G_Prince]

Thanks for sharing!

Dating, and women's roles are some of the "classic" GCx dysfuncitons that drive some out. Others swallow it down as good Biblical teaching and get caught in the insanity. I'm glad you saw the light and got out when you did!

Warning:
Try to keep in touch with your friends who still attend. My guess is that they might start to gradually avoid you since you no longer attend church with them. If you are candid about why you left, church leaders might label you as an unhealthy influence and tell their church not to associate with you. I don't mean to freak you out but it has happend countless times so you should be aware.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your experiences!

[ResistingTheResistance]

I think for a while I tried to figure out how I felt about the teachings regarding dating and the roles of women in a church and marriage, and to try to conform my views with that of GCx policy, but I'm just not that type and I couldn't smother my own personality enough to become the meek little wife they expected.  I plan on having a career in the field that I firmly believe God has called me to, and while I don't know how that fits with being a wife and mother yet, I'm still pursuing that. 

In regards to your warning, that's part of the reason I'm being so vague in some statements, as I still value my friendships within the church even though they aren't as strong as they were when I was involved in church activities.  I would hope that my friends would see through it if I were labelled as someone to avoid, but I understand how powerful the opinion of respected authority figures is.  One of my close friends has sort of been taken under wing by the Brown's, (RW's daughter and son-in-law), and thinks that they're the greatest people on earth, which is concerning to me in light of some of the stories I've heard on here.

[escapee]

Hi,
I also left the Manhattan church. I'm glad some other people are getting out. Leaving was the best and hardest thing I've ever done. I'm glad I found this forum.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Welcome!  We've heard very little about the church in Manhattan.  Do you find what you read here to be similar to your experiences?

[escapee]

I don't even know where to begin recounting my experience. And I don't know yet how much I want to say on a public forum. Not that I think current church members read these forums (I am pretty sure they don't because they are explicitly told not to) but I still live in Manhattan and see some of the church members around town. Am I scared of them? Well, not physically, but I'm pretty emotionally messed up by these people.

So, yes, my experience was bad. I was about as deep as someone can get into GC for about 10 years. When I left... I really can hardly describe it. It's like I woke up. It's like my identity had been erased during those ten years. Talking about not being able to have any dreams or goals of your own! I lived that for ten years!

Some memorable moments... when one of the "leaders" (I was a "leader" too by the way) took my phone away from me for about four days because she didn't like who I was talking to. She held onto it and made me tell people I was "fasting" from my phone.

Anyway, I left shortly after that (about one year ago). For ten years I'd known in the back of my head that I was in a cult but that sort of flat out control gave me the final push.

[AgathaL'Orange]

What?  They took your cell phone?   

[escapee]

Yep. Kept it from me for 4 days. I was texting people outside the church and this leader thought they were a bad influence on me.

I was TWENTY FIVE years old. I wish I could go back and slap myself.

[wastedyearsthere]

talk about treating you as a child!  good grief!  This is unheard of. 

[Curious]

Does anyone know anything about the church plant in Decorah? I have a friend that goes there and is rather involved.