Intro for LEFT

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[Left]

Like so many others, I am relieved to have found so many other people who have had an unsettline experience at a GC church.  I had actually found this site while trying to look for more information on the church I left to see what kind of credentials GCM requires for their pastors and staff, etc.  and discovered that the problems I had in my church were actually in all of the ministry.  Please read my story, if you dare, it will reveal a church that sounds as if the 1991 Apology had never been made, and I only started to going to a GCM church in 2005.

After not having been in a church for while, I went to the campus GC church, and was greeted by some wonderful people, all of whom I have not been able to keep friendships with.  I knew some things were amiss in the church, but it was just so comforting to have a "safe place" to talk about some of the emotional problems I had since I was coming out of an emotionally abusive relationship.   The first few months were fine before everything spiraled apart.

The church I went to is critically dangerous - there is only one head pastor, and then only one staff member.  No true accountability seems to be set up and most information is kept in secret.  The pastor kept close to him about 20 single men and women who had been with the church for years and years even though they weren't in college for a long time and the church hasn't grown in number of adults and families.  Anyway, there were about three houses for the majority of the singles to pretty much incubate in - many did not have friends outside the church.  Well, a couple months after I unknowingly moved into a house reserved for women who only spent time with each other - we went through an excommunication process of one of the house members.  The church was torn, but I stayed with them believing they wanted reconciliation and repentence.  The pastor coerced many of us to sign the excommunication letters and perpetually called us until we agreed.

I started dating a long-time church member a few months later, only to find out that this older man would seek the pastor's advice over career moves, large purchases, etc.  That only lasted a couple of months before I wanted to break up with him, but many of the members told me they didn't think I heard God's voice - or if I knew I wasnt going to marry him, then why date him?

Eventually the only staff member that was on board had been spending a lot of time with me to a point where I didnt know what was personal time or what was part of his job.  He would coerce alot of information about me and my emotions, and many of the girls he was ministering to did not feel comfortable.  When brought to the pastor's attention it was brushed off.  I wont get into the gory details of that; however, when I did start dating somoene else, we got a lot of hassle from people who said we didnt seek counsel (and many didnt take our relationship seriously because of it) and it was unwise.

Alot of other stuff happened to me personally and I kept on forgiving the pastor, the church members, etc only to be met with contempt over everything I did and challenged.  The pastor took little responsiblity over his shortcomings and failings, but the church supported him.  After leaving, I went back to visit and his wife pretty much let me know it was not okay to return.  He called to let me know he didn't agree with it, but couldn't do much about it since people would have their own opinions.   It just showed to true immaturity of leadership.  There was no real apology of him or his wife.

I share this not to bash the church, but mostly because this is the first time I am able to really share a lot of my story -with my feelings infused with it and my perspective.  (From reading the website it seems to be true that my feelings matter - I don't have to feel what the majority thinks).  The church members won't hear it and I'm scared of being accused of being devisive and being dragged into a world I left behind (it's been done before to others). Mostly I feel that I was treated so unjustly but I wasn't allowed to talk about anything negative - or I would and people would tell me that I was just unforgiving or not hearing God's voice, or brushed off completely.

It's been a strange past few months since leaving.  It feels freeing - I'm not paranoid or stalked by the pastor and others for details of my life.  I feel like I have a right to use my discretion and choose how much to share about my life and not share and hope that i feel safe enough to share all of it.  I still fear that people will hear about me or talk to me and report it back to the pastor or that gossip will fly about me to mutual acquaintances, etc.

What is one to do with all the feelings of hurt, but mostly the feeling of trying to get your friends free from it?

[boboso]

I can certainly understand the pain of knowing your friends (among others) are still in there dealing with the same issues. However, you must see that some of these people really do know about the (freakishly unreasonable) authoritarian structure and choose to be there. Some people have known only this church structure and do not know of anything else to compare to.

All that said, I think about a number of people in our ex-church often and we're still spending time with a number of them. They know where we stand and ask questions -- while we don't necessarily encourage them to leave, we do tell them frequently to ask the questions to the "leadership" also and to make honest judgments about what they've gotten themselves into.

I don't think the GCM church we went to has been forthcoming about their beliefs on leadership because they know most rational Christians will reject it and leave. And its all about numbers, right?

[Linda]

Thanks for sharing your story, Left.

The church I went to is critically dangerous - there is only one head pastor, and then only one staff member.

I, also, am aware of a campus church that has only one pastor. I find it ironic that one of the "core values" of GCx is plurality of leadership, and how "character matters" and the plurality thing is used to make sure that character is not compromised.

Ironically, the pastor I am aware of who is the lone ranger pastor is also on record on the GCC web page as saying:

"one of our uniquenesses is our plurality of leadership"

It boggles my mind how this man can look in the camera and say that knowing he is the lone head honcho at his church.

This is also the same pastor who said, "I'm sure it's happened," when I mentioned that the "plurality of leaders" thing could be used to cover up adultery on the part of a pastor. (I have no idea why I said that to him, I think it was God's prompting. I also have no idea who or what situation he was referring to. Perhaps it was just theoretical on his part. However, to me, cover up of adultery committed by an elder in an authoritarian church is a bigger deal than the adultery itself.)

So much for the character/plurality argument if this type of cover up has happened. It's not working very well if elders think it's okay to cover up sin.

I would just exhort any elder who has knowledge of sin that disqualifies another elder from leadership and is covering it up to stop covering it up!

I'm curious about your comment:

Well, a couple months after I unknowingly moved into a house reserved for women who only spent time with each other - we went through an excommunication process of one of the house members. The church was torn, but I stayed with them believing they wanted reconciliation and repentance. The pastor coerced many of us to sign the excommunication letters and perpetually called us until we agreed.

A couple things strike me here. First of all, was this an "excommunication" from the house you lived in? Perhaps I have misunderstood, but the sense I have is that someone in your house wasn't following the "house rules" and a pastor used "excommunication" to remove her and coerced all house members to sign on.

It seems real odd to excommunicate someone from a house! Bizarre, in fact. I suppose there are legitimate reasons to ask someone to move out...illegal actions, etc., and we know there are legitimate reasons to excommunicate someone from the church (unrepentant, continuing sin). I would be curious to hear more about this.

If it was an "excommunication" from the church, was the rest of the church in the know and in agreement as is stated in Matthew 18? Do you have a copy of the papers you signed? How were you coerced into signing?

What is one to do with all the feelings of hurt, but mostly the feeling of trying to get your friends free from it?

I do struggle with this. A lot.

Thanks for sharing and welcome!

[nateswinton]

Thanks for posting, Left.  I can relate to a lot of what you wrote, but unfortunately, I don't have the benefit of speaking in vague terms about the church that I'm in the process of leaving (so I'll politely refrain).

I can really appreciate several of your stories, as they all refer to what is basically (part of) the culture of old-school GCC.

As far as this:

What is one to do with all the feelings of hurt, but mostly the feeling of trying to get your friends free from it?

Be sure to find safe people to communicate with, and keep an open avenue for yourself to vent/debrief.  Leaving church in general hurts, but leaving GC churches seems particularly brutal.  As far as wanting to get your friends free, I've had to come to grips with the truth that some of my friends simply want to be part of GC.  It's their call.  For people suffering inside and looking for a way out, though, you can be a voice of truth.

[Linda]

As far as wanting to get your friends free, I've had to come to grips with the truth that some of my friends simply want to be part of GC. It's their call. For people suffering inside and looking for a way out, though, you can be a voice of truth.

Excellent point, Nate.

[Angry]

Thank you for sharing a little bit here Left.

First thing to do?  BREATHE!  You have just left a pretty intense experience and now have a lot of free time on your hands - ENJOY the freedom!  Take a little time and lie back in the grass and watch the clouds go by - view the geese fly south and make sure that squirrel up there is building his winter nest correctly.  Relax, you're gonna be okay.

Many of us have gone through the same feelings you are experiencing currently as you look back into the group and wonder if there is a tactful way to get others away from the group.

Nate said it well when he encouraged you to become a source of truth for them, but be careful of trying too hard to get others to leave.  You have already been labeled with some unsavory terms by the gc* leaders.  So don't be surprised when you first hear a current member refer to you as "lost" or "fallen".  You're not.  You simply decided that the group was not a good fit and moved on.

One thing to keep in mind as you move forward, don't be in a big hurry to find another church.  Look around and see what YOU are looking for in a church.  Be smart.  Take some time off and worship on your own.  When you are ready to look for a church, LOOK for a church....

Check out a Catholic Church,
Check out a Methodist Church,
Check out a Mormon Church,
Check out a Baptist Church,
Check out a non-denom Church,
Check out...... you get the picture.

Get well informed and decide what you like (and dis-like) about each group you've visited.  When you have a taste of several religions, go back and look deeper at the one or two churches which mirror YOUR ethics, beliefs, worship style...  ...and don't disregard your gut instinct.  If something FEELS off, keep looking.  If something appears to be too good to be true, it probably is.

Congrats on your escape -

Angry

[AgathaL'Orange]

As far as wanting to get your friends free, I've had to come to grips with the truth that some of my friends simply want to be part of GC. It's their call. For people suffering inside and looking for a way out, though, you can be a voice of truth.

Excellent point, Nate.

I would like to chime in too!  It's also hard when you still want to be friends with people that you left in GC.  And I have had to let some relationships go.  For them, I have done the most disloyal thing possible which is to leave.  I have "removed myself" from the battle.  In their mind, I am choosing to no longer be important or visionary or part of the game.  I was really surprised when this happened.  In my "regular" life if I quit a job (which I have had to do from time to time) I still am friends with the people I worked with.  In fact, I still socialize with some of them from time to time.  In fact, I have several friends from classes I've dropped, jobs I've quit, and clubs I no longer attend.  But when I quit GC, it was like a shunning.  There was little to no contact from anyone.  Literally less than 5 attempts from EVERYONE added together to contact me.  And three were from the same person!  Everyone else was content to see us out of their lives forever.

That was probably the most painful part, to realize that this "brotherhood" was conditional and dependent on my beliefs, behavior, and commitment.

It is what it is, and I am over it now.  But I am more guarded certainly.

And as for those wanting to leave... you can help them immensely just by being there, being honest, and being a place for them to talk with no strings or conditions.

[Linda]

Check out a Mormon Church

I'm thinking you should skip this one.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Check out a Mormon Church

I'm thinking you should skip this one.

Oh my yes!

[Angry]

....but it could represent our next President....

Just because they burned to death a couple hundred people back in the 1870's is no reason to put an "X" through their whole movement.

Angry

[Linda]

Hi Angry,

I'm not sure I have understood what you are saying, so forgive me if I've totally missed your point.

I was trying to say that Mormonism is an entirely different religion than Christianity (Plurality of Gods, View of Christ, Means of Salvation, things like Spirit Children and populating your own planets with them that I don't really understand, Baptisms for the dead, eternal marriages, special underwear, Osmonds, etc.) and therefore wouldn't recommend checking out a Mormon church. But, it's an interesting thing to Google!

I was not trying to comment on whether or not Mormons are nice people (I'm sure many are, I always thought Donnie and Marie were swell) or whether or not they would make a good president (I have voted for many people over the years who I'm sure are not Christians, but who hold what I consider to be a Christian world view.)

Just wanted to clarify my point.

[Angry]

Linda,

I was tongue in cheek teasing about Mitt Romney (Mormon)&the Mountain Meadows massacre in the 1850's.  You're right in pointing out that this may also be a group to steer clear of after one leaves GC* and is searching for a new spiritual base.  I personally am not 100% aware of the ins and outs of Mormonism, so any insight you can afford to Left (and anyone else searching for a church) would be greatly appreciated.

Left, I am sorry if it sounds like I was making light if your situation.  I sincerely apologize for going off on a less than humorous tangent.

After hastily throwing a reply on here, it struck me that we should be here to try and help if at all possible.  This forum can provide an opportunity for people who have found happy places to share stories as well as people whom have found gc-ish experiences in other churches.

This forum had made a run at formulating a list of "recommended" churches in the past, but we got off topic.  As time permits in the next several days, I will try and hunt down the appropriate postings.  If I recall correctly, several people named Churches that they found to be true havens of light in their communities.

To that end, yes, you should test drive a few churches when YOU are ready again.  And please research any group you are contemplating joining.  So far, we have one vote of caution against the Mormon church, and I would offer a word of caution against the Jehovah Witness movement.

ANYONE THINKING OF JOINING A GC-whatever CHURCH, DON'T!  IT IS A CULT!

Angry

[Linda]

Hey Angry,

I had the feeling I was missing something in your post! Sorry about that.

Terry pointed out your comment:

Just because they burned to death a couple hundred people back in the 1870's is no reason to put an "X" through their whole movement.

Then, I got what you were trying to say! Ha, ha.

Yes, just because a movement did something bad in the past, and didn't change, doesn't mean we shouldn't point out the theological errors today!

I did have fun googling Mormon underwear, though. It's a hoot.

[Truth Lover]

Wednesday, November 7, 2007
11:35am, e.s.t.

Dear Left,

I was saddened greatly by your story, but again not surprised.  I continue to pray for ones here as I have also been through it in a big way too (see my post at intros and testimonies).  The weaknesses in GC continue to manifest themselves because of a lack of proper Bible teaching & understanding from the pastors, which filters down to staff and everyone else.  Please know that there is life after GC and it is good if you continue to follow the Lord, His Word, His ways.  Don't give up on Him because of bad examples ~ that's what our enemy would like.

Yes, it is important to be with other Christians in a healthy church.  It is also very important to discern if that church is indeed teaching the true Gospel.  The Roman Catholic Church teaches a different gospel, one that is not by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.   Their's is a gospel that requires works in order to be saved.  That is not the Gospel of the Bible and it does not save anyone from their sins and ultimately God's wrath upon them.  The same goes for the Mormons, JWs, Buddists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, and every other religion except for true Christianity.  All of them include works as part of what is required in order to gain the acceptance of God (and their god is not the God of the Bible).  That's why it is so hard for ones to be saved, because people, in their pride, want to contribute something to their salvation.  Read 1 Cor. 1:18-31.  Also, Jesus said in John 14:6 ~"I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through Me."  This is very difficult for people in our day and age to understand, because post-modern thinking has crept into the church.  Post-modern thinking has many aspects, but the main one seems to be that no one can really know anything for sure, and to say that you do know the truth about God and salvation from the Bible is somehow proud and intolerant.  Even some Christians fight against the clear teaching of the Bible on this and want to be tolerant of many other views because it seems nicer or more humble.  But the most loving thing you can do is help people understand the seriousness of their sin and give them the only true remedy.  It isn't loving to let ones go on thinking that their religion is ok, when in reality it will lead them to hell.  The Bible couldn't be more clear on this in many, many places.  "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." ~ Eph. 2:8-9.  We must be clear on the Gospel.  Also, we must humble ourselves before the clear teaching of the Word of God and believe it and proclaim it just as He said.  To do anything else is prideful.  When God is doing a work in someone's heart, they will, by God's sovereign grace, be drawn to Him, hear the Gospel and repent or turn from their sin, and believe that Jesus Christ died and rose again as a substitute for them.  They will know that they cannot do anything whatsoever to contribute to their salvation and will humbly acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  "But what does it say?  The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart -- that is , the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation."  ~ Romans 10:8-10.  Remember ALL of salvation is a GIFT!  God GRANTS the ability to repent of sin, the ability to believe the Gospel, the new birth -- it's ALL from Him!  Then He gets ALL the glory!  And when He gives a new heart (2 Cor. 5:17; John 1:12-13) -- the person is indeed a brand new creature and will want to please God and obey Him and study and believe His Word.  

Below is a link to a good article on what to look for when choosing a church.  It is at the Bible BB site that I have recommended elsewhere in my testimony and recommended reading, etc.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/newchur.htm

May God bless you, Left, and cause His Spirit and grace to shine upon you and lead you to a good place where you can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  May He give you peace and comfort at this time through His sweet Word and ones who are truly His.

May God continue to build His church, through His Word and Spirit, as He wills, for His glory!

[Angry]

Morman underwear?  Had to google it also.

weird.

[Truth Lover]

From Truth Lover ~
1:10pm, Nov. 7, 2007

P.S. ~

Also ~ below is the link to the main page of Bible BB.  Click on the tab on the upper left corner "Looking for a good church?".  There you will find a list of good churches, state by state, and some countries too!  No church is perfect, but these are screened for a proper and true teaching of the Gospel and the Bible.  

Check these out if they are in your area!

http://www.biblebb.com/

May God bless His people with His truth and love, for His glory!!

[Angry]

Great link, Truth Lover.
Thank you

Angry

[Left]

i just went through the string of replied posts to my intro.   I just wanted to say, THANK YOU!  For all the support.  It is really good to know that there are people who are still following God post-GC.

my update is that I am still looking for another church to really go to.   There are so many fears in my heart about actually getting plugged in and involved.  I was going to one church for a bit and starting getting creeped out by really simple things that were like my old church.  (only one pastor with no real board of leaders; all the workers were volunteers who had full time jobs but dedicated all their time to the church; alot of talk about big plans for the church, but no real detail about how it would happen)

so now i'm just taking my time and looking around.   it's hard spiritually to hang in there sometimes because my friends that still talk to me are not Christian.

The harder part is seeing the effects on my friends who left with me.  There were a few people who left before me and wouldnt talk to me until I left too, and then there were a couple who left with me.  As far as I really know, my boyfriend and I are the only ones who are still going to church at all.  The rest are still believers, but they are not looking for a church really and are not really doing the whole "walk" thing.   I think it's good for them - even if it means not really following for a while - to just not be stressed out by the legalism.  I know eventually we''ll all come to our own convictions and be stronger in the end.  

It's just difficult to feel alone in this process.  I seem to be the only one who's not holding this experience against all organized religion, groups, and specifically Christians.  I know it'll get better.  That's my update since September.