Life after The Rock

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[crp87]

I attended Summitview and The Rock in Fort Collins from 2006-2011. I happened upon it at a very vulnerable time in my life. I had been out of High School for a few years and was a lonely recovering drug addict with no friends or family ties. My first to the Rock lasted only 10 minutes or so, but I was stopped by a guy around my age who handed me his phone number and told me to call him if I ever needed to talk. I did call him and he became my first real friend in a long time, and eventually my d-team leader. The team I joined was actually great. There were some little issues with legalism and seeing no value in anything that wasn't blatantly Christian (art, music, movies, books) that were annoying at first but as I developed a closer friendship with the leader of the team he had more exposure to life outside his limited view of the world and even those minor issues were diminished.

For several years there were no real issues to speak of. I believe the reason for this was our team was considered the "fringe" team. We didn't spend  a lot of time with other Rock members and really only attended required events and Sunday morning church. All of the growth our group saw was because our leaders had created a safe and loving environment where Christ really was the center- and this was shown in the way that we really loved each other. We had several regular attenders who joined in the following two years who would have been shunned by any other member of the Rock that I knew. (lgbt members, athiests, agnostics- even a catholic member. oh my) And our leaders did their best to make sure that even if their personal beliefs did not match our own, they never experienced anything but the love of God from our team. And that is not to say that they compromised their views. Every bible study was probably more narrow than my own personal view but it was presented as one man's interpretation and not forced on us as the absolute only possible interpretation. It was great, exactly what I needed. Unfortunately both the male and female leaders graduated about two years after I joined and things changed. The first thing- and this was big- was that I was slated to participate in a summer "infusion" trip to a different city in Colorado. Living arrangements had been made and I was training for a job in the area but when my leader who had just graduated got a job out of state and decided that he was no longer going to be participating in this summer trip I was told by the man leading the "infusion" that I was not truly being called by God to go on this trip. So there I was in Fort Collins- no job and no summer housing lined up.

The former leader's apprentice took over. I had been friends with him, though not close, and had never had any issues with him before- but when he took over it was like all of the issues you have heard about in GC came into our team full force. Many of the team members left the Rock. A gay woman was shunned and told not to come back until she had repented, all of the seekers that were hanging around with us were just gone and wouldn't even speak with many of us on an individual basis. From this point on all new growth was the typical luring in new and scared freshmen. I had started dating a woman from the team around the time all of this was starting and because of who my leader had previously been I was unaware of how the Rock viewed dating. The new leader started actively discouraging our relationship and I was even approached by own of the two top leaders of the Rock who told me that if i continued my relationship I was condemning both myself and my then girlfriend to hell. Needless to say, this put a strain on us and on our relationship. I stopped attending the Rock while my girlfriend continued for a while longer before finally giving up.

Shortly after leaving the Rock and spending my girlfriend and I, much better after leaving the Rock, got engaged. At this point we were still attending Summitview. Both my fiance and I had been saved during our time at the d-team and felt overwhelmed by trying to find a new church without any kind of guidance. Eventually I made an appointment to meet with John Meyer who expressed disapproval of our long engagement (1 year) but told us to try out a team in the newly launched young adult post college group, symbio. It was worse. We were one of two couples on our team, the other couple was GC couple born and raised- and was approaching their engagement much more in the with the GC view. No real dating, 3 month engagement. We were systematically excluded from events, often receiving calls like "hey we are watching this movie. There are about 20 minutes left but you can still come if you want"  Our final straw was at one Wednesday night Bible study my fiance and I were told that we could not sit near each other- it was causing single members to become jealous and stumble. I then announced that my fiance and I would not be attending any further Symbio, Rock or Summitview events.

I've rambled on for too long now so I will just say that the next few months I received some harassing phone calls and emails from former friends at the Rock, leading up to me being told that I probably shouldn't associate with people from GC anymore. I even saw several people who I knew and used to have pleasant relationships with turning and walking the other direction when they saw me on the street. My wedding went on as planned and the only Rock people in attendance were my first d-team leader- who was my best man- and the one or two other original team members who had not gone crazy when GC started influencing our team.

In the three years that have followed I have experienced so much depression and self doubt about how everything went down. I know in my brain that I made the right decision to leave but it was just so hard to have people that I thought were my friends attack me and cut me off. My wife and I have struggled to join another church for fear of being hurt like we were hurt before. As much as it makes me sick to admit, It has really shaken the foundations of my faith. I'm glad to see that there are people who have experienced far worse and have been able to feel healing and peace. I'm not sure why I wrote all of this, but I hope just getting this out there can help restart my healing process.

It's late and I am tired so I apologize for any typos or strangely worded sentences.

[EverAStudent]

Welcome to the forum.  Thank you for bravely stating your personal story. 

[2xA Ron]

Hi! I'm also from the Summitview Rock, 2008-2012. I'm sad to hear what happened to you and your wife regarding the dating views. I experienced some similar issues leading up to me being removed from my team. I contacted John Hopler and told him my story earlier this year. I wound up getting apologies from the primary people involved, and promises that the Rock would take specific steps to change. I haven't yet been able to verify that those changes have taken place, but my experience with Hopler was genuinely helpful. If you feel up to it, you might try contacting him yourself. Two witnesses telling him the same things about the same group can't hurt and might help.

[Ned_Flanders]

Hi crp87,
Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your story.  You're not the first person who has shared that GCx people befriended you and then shamed and shunned you.  I went through it too, though my case was a little different.  

I got out of GCx in 1994.  I thank God that I have been involved in a better understanding of Him, of myself and a great fellowship ever since that time.  

I'm not sure just how I feel about it that GCx kicks people out of the fellowship when they stumble and sin... especially when it comes to selective sins, usually having to do with sex or drugs.  I don't think they're kicking anyone out for overeating or gossip.  But that selectiveness is not just a GCx issue.  

But is the issue that they kick someone out, or is it how they do it?  What about the concern for the body of Christ?  You said you're in recovery from drug addiction (and God bless you in your healing).  So would it be a good idea to have somebody around you who is an active drug and alcohol abuser who does not want to repent of that life?  What is the answer to this?

[FeministRebel]

Welcome to the Forum. You know, one of the things that resonated the most to me, from your story, was the act of other people telling you that God wasn't leading you to go attend Infusion. I always felt it was quite arrogant of others in leadership to pretend to tell people what God was leading them, or not leading them into doing. And based on what? Their own personal convictions of dating, or other strict and legalistic ways of living out Christianity?

Frankly, GCx is just ONE way to live out Christianity -- but they act like theirs is the one exclusive way, and like Jesus privately e-mailed them, and gave them explicit instructions on how to interpret the Bible, and every day life situations. This isn't just a GCx problem, though, it's also a problem of folks who want to live out faith in a fundamentalist way, choosing to stretch out Bible passages and situations to modern life, with our modern morals and ethics.

I can understand how GCx has shaken your faith. It certainly did mine... enough so, that when I left GCx and tried to attend a more liberal, Presbyterian church, I found that the cognitive dissonance was too much: clearly, if the Bible is the word of God, I ought not pick and choose the things I want to follow -- but clearly, many of those things would be immoral, in my own modern perspective, for me to follow -- or just nonsensical. GCx and creationism/fundamentalism reduced my faith to an argumentum ad absurdum.

I was afraid of many things... that God had abandoned me, that I was going to Hell, that I wasn't following religion the proper way, etc, etc. But slowly, as I noticed I felt no 'presence' anymore, in my prayers, I became less and less afraid of questioning the things I was believing. I began to study critical thinking, logic, philosophy, Biblical archaeology, science, etc.

It took a while for me to deprogram myself, and to reconcile the things I was believing in dissonance... but I am now an atheist, and I've never been happier, nor more at peace.

I do hope wherever your journey leads you, you do find that peace... and that you do not fear your own instincts, or your own choices for your own well-being. There are many kind churches out there, willing to extend you an open arm  -- but you are right in being discerning when it comes to letting yourself be vulnerable again. Some people clearly use religion to manipulate, indoctrinate, program, and control others.

Best of luck to you, and your dear spouse.

(Former member of Stonebrook Community Church, and The Rock, in Ames, IA... 1995-2003)

[crp87]

Ned, in my case the issue was neither. The GCx leadership viewed me as a project of my team leader, and when he decided to leave, I was an obsolete byproduct of a dissolving team that never really lived up to the standards of the leadership anyway. It was a legalistic and judgmental attitude by self-righteous group of people. The only person privy to my struggles was the leader who brought me in. As they were in the past and judged not to be a present danger they were not shared with anyone beside him.  Though relapse is always a fear, it was low among my struggles at the time and showing the love of Christ to others was deemed more important than keeping any possible stumbling block away. Because, lets be honest- nearly anything could be a stumbling block. If we feel the need to protect ourselves from everything, we are useless. So there was no concern for anyone's previous struggles and there was no compassion for people searching for truth. There was judgement.

And Rebel, my wife and I thank you for your encouragement and well wishes.  

[EverAStudent]

Yes, the GC view of "stumbling blocks" certainly betrays their legalism and mysticism.  In Scripture stumbling blocks are one of three categories:

1) God (or Christ) causing unbelieving sinners to faulter in their wicked ways so that they pay attention to God's Word
2) believers who turn to idolatry or to the worst of gross sins / iniquities
3) informed believers who do things that are not sinful at all but which some uneducated people in the church think are sinful and these informed believers intentionally or arrogantly ignore the fact that others in the church were never taught that the things they are doing are not sinful and so by their example encourage these untaught brethren to participate in what they "think" is sinful -- in Scripture this type of stumbling is always in relation to idolatry and worshipping false gods, like eating meat sacrificed to idols, and has nothing to do with trivial things like dating.

In GC they defined stumbling blocks as being those who did things against the whims or traditions of the pastors, or even calling the lifestyles of the unsaved stumbling blocks to Christians (as if it were ever possible for us to escape living in the world).  This led to an atmosphere of paranoia where everyone was always afraid of accidently becoming a stumbling block or being accused of being a stumbling block or being accused of "looking" too much like the unsaved.  This paranoia served the purposes of the pastors (in keeping people under their control) and was perpetuated by the ignorance of the congregation and the pastors who did not know that the Scriptures defined stumbling blocks as those who know they are intentionally leading others into blatant sin and false worship.  

[clarinet20]

Im so sorry to hear that this happened to you. I went to the Summitview in Greeley and saw alot of things that I didnt agree with when it came to the dating aspect of things. In a sense Im not surprised about this because of how summitview and Great commission churches are. Im glad I left when I did. Its really unfortunate that so many people who are a part of that church dont see any problems with them and dont realize that anything is wrong. Its  really unfortunate that it happened. I have so many complaints about them that its ridiculous.

[margaret]

I contacted John Hopler and told him my story earlier this year. I wound up getting apologies from the primary people involved, and promises that the Rock would take specific steps to change. I haven't yet been able to verify that those changes have taken place, but my experience with Hopler was genuinely helpful. If you feel up to it, you might try contacting him yourself. Two witnesses telling him the same things about the same group can't hurt and might help.

Yeah, I'm cynical whenever John Hopler comes in and "apologizes." My experience was that he came in to "fix things" and make peace, but then he never followed up with the person (pastor) who was in the wrong, and the church went on as normal and nothing ever changed.  Except I fell through the cracks. No biggie. psh.
Hopler only "apologizes," in my opinion, to keep people like us from writing bad things (aka TRUE THINGS) about GCM on this forum.  And why he trolls the site to track people down to "make peace."
There is still so much cover up from the past 35 years that they'll never disclose, and so much wrongdoing that is still taking place today that they are fully aware of, and therefore complicit.  Makes me physically sick. Not to mention emotionally and spiritually.

[Differentstrokes]

I've never really understood the GC views on dating, like... Humans are designed to be attracted to eachother, we should celebrate and support this couples who choose to date instead of forcing them to sneak around, probably would have fewer issues that way!

So much of what you've said about losing the friends rings true with me, it's so sad....

[Linda]

Regarding Hopler, I was just reminded that he had Mark Darling and Brent Knox write us a letter in 2012. We left ECC in 2005!!! How bizarre is that?! It seems Hopler had been reading this forum and was making a list of all those who post by name. He was then having the elders mentioned in posts contact those who commented under the guise of "reconciliation". Note to all of you anonymous posters: Stay anonymous.

The thing is, Brent had told people to "give the controls" of their lives to their fallible pastors, and Mark had said, among other things,  that he had surrendered his will not only to God, but to John Hopler, Brent, etc. Now, there are things that you overlook when listening to sermons because someone misspoke or wasn't clear, but when a repeated message is that you should give the controls of your life to your local elders, and stay committed for life, this is NOT A MATTER OF RECONCILIATION.

ERROR NEEDS CORRECTION!

Reconciliation may need to happen when the error has caused harm to individuals and apologies are needed, but first must come correction. Public correction of public teaching.  If the elders cared about the truth, they would publicly (in their churches and on this forum) correct their error and repeat their correction as often as necessary. An apology not followed by action is no apology. A correction stated, but not publicly, is no correction.

Hope you all are well.

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13

[Hope]

If GCC hasn't changed in 20 years, there is no reconciliation. I remember reading the letter of apology from 1991, I recognized that they apologized but never corrected. Thanks for the tip to stay anonymous. 

[Huldah]

It wasn't even that much of an apology, since they blamed the problems on their own "zeal" and the normal "mistakes" of "the process of growing up in the Lord." Throughout the entire statement, the faults that are acknowledged are accompanied by excuses and other mitigating statements. As apologies go, this left much to be desired.

[DevastatedTC]

These are good points. There is still no type of education that aspiring pastors receive, correct? I will stay anonymous as well.  From what I understand, the apology letter of 1991 was never sent to members within GCC but only to those who had left. It is a tactic which I have seen from time to time where they say that they want peace, but what they really mean is that they want you to stop sharing your truthful hurts and experiences with others.
 
If my spouse were cheating on me and asked for reconciliation because of how they hurt me, it would be reasonable to ask they stop the harmful behavior as the condition for peace between us. If they said, I'm sorry you felt hurt but we'll just have to disagree on some things, there can be no reconciliation and I should have no problem whatsoever calling out their sin.

I don't want to call out all GCC churches, but I will say that in Des Moines, they still try to control whom people date and when they can date them, they still ask for life time commitments to their church alone, they still counsel people to never move from Des Moines and leave their church, they still look down on other churches who "just don't get it", they still preach controlling messages from the pulpit and...well why don't you just read the weakness paper for yourself!