Long long ago

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[RD]

Wow, reading this forum brings up a lot of memories. I was part of the Blitz Movement '73 -'77.

Our "church" was closer to Herschel Martindale than to Jim McCotter, although he came through a couple of times. Dennis Clark... Bill Wood-- does anyone remember him and Jan Doercksen? Most of the other leaders are names I can't put to faces. The forty years since then have been good years, and I've forgotten a lot.

I do remember the last conference I attended. Jim McCotter was speaking, and he said, "I don't know why Jesus hasn't come back yet. I've taught you all I know." I was shocked. The very idea that Jesus coming back hinged on this man's teaching. As if ! No one else thought what he said was strange, but for me, it was the deal breaker. I had to get out.

My story isn't any different than the ones I've read here. I eventually ran afoul of the leadership, and I left. I presume they excommunicated me in absentia. If it makes them happy... I've been incredibly blessed since I left. God has restored what the canker worm has eaten, and more...

[Huldah]

Hello, RD, and welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear that the years since you left have been good ones. You mentioned Dennis Clark. Were you at the Columbus church where he was one of the leaders?

[Linda]

Welcome, RD.

I do remember the last conference I attended. Jim McCotter was speaking, and he said, "I don't know why Jesus hasn't come back yet. I've taught you all I know." I was shocked. The very idea that Jesus coming back hinged on this man's teaching. As if ! No one else thought what he said was strange, but for me, it was the deal breaker. I had to get out.

Wow. That is astonishing and you were very wise to see it as a deal breaker.

I am always amazed that Martindale and Clark are still on the board of GCC and no one bats an eye. They did recently move Clark to the "emeritus" category, but as far as I know, he has never distanced himself from the error of the Leadership book  ( http://www.gcxweb.org/Books/Leadership/ ) that he co-wrote with McCotter. The fact that no one seems to want to correct that error (and it was a book published by GC) indicates to me that they don't believe it is in error.

[RD]

Hi Huldah,

Thanks for the welcome. No, I was down in Ruston, which was probably why we were closer to Herschel than Dennis. Houston wasn't that far away. Once in a while a few of the Columbus brothers would come through but we actually saw more of the Lawrence and Ames folks.

Hi Linda! Jim was an interesting study. Intense, dynamic, and yet there seemed to be something disconnected there. By the time this conference came up, I was already having doubts about the group, and when he came out with this statement, it just confirmed what I'd suspected-- that there was something really off about this whole thing.

And now, it may be a case of the emperor's new clothes with regards to the book. I imagine after all these years it would be hard for the leadership to recant what they supported in the Leadership book, even if they were individually inclined to do so. This movement's been going for how long now-- more than forty years?. It would take some incredibly strong men to stand up and say that what they had given their lives to was wrong and hurtful and not of God, even if deep in their hearts they knew it was so. When there are no true friends that surround you-- and i doubt if any of them have one true friend who would support them if they renounced the book and left the organization-- it's hard, hard, hard to do. I mourn what I lost to the group, and it angers me that so many people were hurt, but I pity the leadership who want to leave and are stuck in this trap.

[Huldah]

It would take some incredibly strong men to stand up and say that what they had given their lives to was wrong and hurtful and not of God, even if deep in their hearts they knew it was so.

Yes, I've often thought the same thing. There's no doubt in my mind that most of them meant well. How, at 50, 60, or older, would someone cope with the fact that he has lived a lie? How would he cope with the fact that he had spent his entire adult life misleading the sheep, even causing genuine harm to some of them, when he had always wanted so sincerely to help them?

[Janet Easson Martin]

Hi RD,

Read and been reading brave and telling posts on here like yours and so MANY others.  Your voice is important as it part of the whole picture of this organization.  It's beginnings, it's growings, and it's aggressive gathering and controlling of the sheep, God's people. Unfortunately, they are not ready or willing to tell the whole truth.  Thank God for this site which is allowing finally the sheep's voice to be heard.  As you know, you will likely not hear it inside because it is an unspoken rule to not speak negatively of especially its leadership with anyone; & you'd likely loose friends inside if you dared.  As we have heard from testimony after testimony on this site.  People did follow the biblical process of starting one on one approaching its leaders with their serious concerns, with little repentance on the leaders part.  In some cases the members were individually hurt or offended; and in others the people reported to the leaders others being wrongfully wounded and trespassed against.  Of course, many a time, as we have detailed cases in writing here, a "godly" front was put on with sometimes a fake smile or handshake, and the leaders led them to believe they sincerely received their words.  Then, we hear the leaders had no further discussion with these same people until they personally or often publically (without the offended's knowledge) slandered them; and labeled them as dissentious and defectors.  They twisted the offensive behavior on the leaders part to become instead a false accusal of the offended with advisement to the group to avoid them, as if the offended were the"SINFUL" ones.

"See that you do not despise one of these little ones.  
For I tell you that their angels in heaven ALWAYS see the face of my Father in heaven"
Matthew 18:10-11

When people did manage to quietly leave, even they felt confused about their devotion to God.  I still remember one such person asking me (soon after I left) Is God for them or us?  (Is God supporting or annointing their governing of the sheep or does he support me because I left?)  In my gut, I knew they were wrong in their treatment of the members and in much of their teaching, but I couldn't find in the bible YET what kind of church and leadership God approves and annoints...  I felt sad and helpless I couldn't give that inquirer an assuring answer.  

As many of us can identify, we felt something weird in our gut, and strange in our head, but didn't know enough TRUTH to settle this matter in our minds.  So, we felt scared we would "tube out" (as GCX used to say about going back to the world, etc.) and be a failure for GOD ALMIGHTY!  We were lied to over and over about what a truly devoted "saint" should look like.  (Somehow it was the spitting image of being there with them- LOL!)

So do not be attracted by strange, new ideas.  
Your strength comes from God's GRACE, not from rules...

Hebrews 13:9

Not having heard or been opened to most other christian teachers, we had NOT MUCH CLUE as to how the rest of the christian world really walked their spiritual journey.  (I was once told don't listen to ANY radio preachers, but if you have to, Vernon McGee, was ok - I guess because he had only small amounts of commentary.)

"These people are zealous to win you over, but for NO good.
 What they want is to alienate you from us so that you may be zealous for them."

Galatians 4:17 & 20

This included not only the new people, but the old hangers on, the small group leaders, and even those discipled by Jim McCotter, the real founder, to become elders/church leaders themselves.  We had no clue we were becoming spiritually blinded.  So, many of the leaders personally "taught" by Jim to lead learned to be his blind guides.  God's TRUTH explains to us now, and Jesus' disciples back then, WHAT the RESULT of that set up is?  

We all knew the "correct response" verse but not the spirit-revealed meaning back then.   Later, we experienced the R E S U L T.  They BOTH fall into a pit.  

"Leave them; they are blind guides.  If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

Matthew 15:14

So, sweet sheep, if we felt our faith slowly slide into a PIT - loss of JOY and PEACE in our relationship with Jesus, we should not feel ALONE or surprised.  It was inevitable.  And, one of Satan's insidious schemes for believers to shipwreck their precious Faith.  

"What has happened to all your JOY ?

Galatians 4:15

BUT He can RAISE US FROM THE PIT & RESTORE OUR JOY !!!     Amen?

[RD]

Hello Janet. Your words are encouraging- thank you.

A later experience led me to believe that there is a spirit behind all of this. Some years after my sojourn in the movement, my husband and I joined a church thousands of miles from Louisiana. It was a charismatic church-- quite a successful one in our city-- and no one had heard of of any of the leadership. At first it was wonderful, but after about a year some things started getting awfully familiar. I went to our home group leader who was familiar with my story and told him what I sensed. "If this is the same spirit, these things will happen in this order.." and I gave him a list of about ten things to look for. Sure enough, those things happened in the order that they happened in our little group in Louisiana.

After a few months of badgering phone calls from the pastor, we left. Our home group leader went to the church leadership with what he had seen happening (I told him not to take my word for it but to see and test what was happening) but to no avail; within a few months he and his wife were excommunicated for being... factious.

In my limited experience, I've seen that spirits (at least lower level ones) do not learn. They use the same m.o. over and over again. What I'd seen before was now happening in a completely unrelated church group. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck ...

Huldah, you'd mentioned how could they cope with living a lie? Perhaps the explanation is that they are blinded by a spirit.

[Huldah]

I absolutely believe that there's some spiritual blinding involved. There's something demonic going on (although I don't mean to be overly dramatic about that, since there are also plenty of worldly and fleshly influences at work in GC  as well). However, my point was that, for those elders who come to realize late in life that they've taught a lie, it would be extremely difficult to admit it. Where would you go, when you have no outside contacts or source of income, when all your friends are GC, and even your family is devoted to GC? Leaving would take a tremendous act of courage for any of the lifelong leaders.

[RD]

I agree, Huldah, it would take a tremendous amount of grace and courage to leave. They would be leaving their whole life behind-- everything they've known, everything they've worked for.

[Linda]

James Chapter 3 says, "But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice."

I've mentioned these verses before after my husband pointed them out a few years ago when we heard a message on men making it their ambition to be an elder and the speaker likened it to "lusting after" (a terrible interpretation of the word desire) being an elder. This is a group that is all about leadership and encourages men to be ambitious to lead others. Of course one can't automatically assume all GC elders are full of jealousy and selfish ambition, but one should note that jealousy and selfish ambition are earthly, unspiritual, and demonic. Very sobering.

I, likewise, have often wondered about GC leaders whose eyes are opened to the error of their system. Besides the angst of realizing they had led people astray, they would have lost their career and their ability to generate income for their family. No other church would take them because they have not been trained in a seminary and many gave up their education for the goal of leadership. I do feel sorry for them.

It would take courage to leave.

It would be the right thing to do.

[nolongergci]

As an encouragement to those who may think of leaving leadership and are fearful, we left over 25 years ago. All of our friends were there and the only Christianity we had known was within GCI. We had a large family to support and things looked very scary for our future!

There IS life outside of GCI and there ARE Christians who desire to follow the Lord even if they are not connected to GCI (when we left, we were told we wouldn't find ones serious about things of the Lord outside the movement!!!)

God didn't abandon us when we left, He provided for the needs of our family and we and all our children still love the Lord in spite of us leaving.   

[Janet Easson Martin]

Nolongergci,

It is interesting that exactly what you posted today is what God drew my attention to the last couple of days.  I don't understand it fully, but was jaw-dropped by the truths I discovered there.  First let me say, I am so grateful that you have come to and been posting here, especially since it appears as one who was formerly in leadership in GCI, GCx, whatever the new name to the same old "yeast" is.

I also left nearly that long ago, about 23 years now, after being captive there nearly a decade.  I did enjoy some of the friends I had there, especially in the beginning days.  I think it was because, initially, the Spirit in us was free to have its way in our relationships with other believers, who had not yet been fully introduced or trained or devoted in the "GCx way".  Therefore, their being was more filled with the REAL spontaneous and natural fruits of the Spirit like LOVE, JOY, and PEACE.  Others who had been there longer or were quite determined in their devotion to GCx seemed to have a different quality about them, which I was informed by "leadership" was true godliness.  I almost felt that I should bow before them.  They were somewhat internally evasive and thus too mysterious to actually connect with.   I was convinced I was not devoted enough to Christ to think or talk like they did.  I began feeling ashamed for who I really was - a normal growing young believer.  Longing for worth and value among them; I, too, (with time) submitted to imitating their contrived ways, all the while getting more depressed for not feeling free to just be me.  I felt the fake  "GCx-lover" me was more honored and respected then my regular self, so I practiced it more and more.  

I was persuaded further from the "pulpit" that others who were not "that" way were 'looser' christians.  I learned a very bad habit there - judging other christians by GCx standards (dos and don'ts).  Therefore, I felt pretty haughty and superior when some failed the "list"; and quite condemned and inferior when others seemed to exude a "near-perfectness" in keeping the "TRUE GODLY standard" that I couldn't  perform.  It actually became a burden to practice it, which I wrongly began to associate with following Christ.  

I thought an honest description of my experience there might be summarized up as THE PERFECT PARADE.  (I can laugh now, but then it was quite stressful and energy zapping, not to mention loss of a normal zest for life.  Oooo, this is getting long.  Sorry.


Getting back to what God, Our Father, seemed to be saying to me when I read Isaiah 46:1-2 these last two days.  It says in NIV:

"Bel bows down, Nebo stoops low;
their idols are borne by beasts of burden.
The images carried about are burdensome,
a burden for the weary."

O.K.  The idols Bel and Nebo had to be carried around and they were HEAVY.  Mules had to carry them. (Interesting - since they are stubborn.  For what that's worth.)  Since they have no dynamic energy of their own, others must carry their heavy & burdensome load around.  The images are not spontaneous, but a man-made mask of something they are devoted to.  The word used for 'weary' here means faint, famished, parched, languid.  Hmm...sounds like the description of sheep who have been shepherd-less, or at least led by a very "bad" shepherd.  In that condition, bearing a demanding load could destroy them.  The word 'carry' in verses 1 & 2 might be the operative word, as it is repeated several times in the passage. The Hebrew word used here for it relates to one that means:  what is borne about; your things borne about in procession... Woa!  The Hebrew word used here for 'burden' is defined as what is carried,brought as tribute!  How many times did I hear, if you're really a devoted disciple of Christ you will...(fill in the blank with the offerings you "devotedly" brought to GCx, although shamed into by using God's name).  Scripture verses were twisted with false ideas on what a true disciple was; may I say with the ambition of making Jim McCotter or GCx more exulted much of the time.  These "things" really ended up being tributes brought to its name and glory!  

May i just share the final part of this passage to share what was rather telling.  The second verse says:

"They stoop and bow down together;
UNABLE to RESCUE THE BURDEN,
they themselves go off into captivity."

Get this, the Hebrew word for 'rescue' here means: slip away, ESCAPE! This word is most often used in the Bible as escape.  Even more AMAZING is that it is translated as "let me slip away to see my brethren". I'm convinced he means those that love and accept me for me, and don't put rules over my head, and burdens on my back.  Those in whose presence I can be comforted and RELAX.  Other translations include deliver self, let alone, let go, release.  Then, the word for 'captivity'used here means "a state of captivity".  Ponder that one!  Like a persuaded state of mind?  It also translates as prisoner, take away, and captured.  There is something tied to being devoted to gods and being captively tied up, unable to escape!  Is this perhaps why so many of us felt it extremely difficult to leave?



Sorry, Nolongergci, didn't get to the part yet that your post most reminded me of, but didn't want to wear out any listeners


Glad You Found Grace to Slip Away,

Janet

[Janet Easson Martin]

Nolongergci,

This is the section of Isaiah 46 that seemed reminiscent of the choice you made and the comfort it brought you and your family.  Verses 3-4.  It makes me think of a love song written to its beloved.


"Listen to Me, O house of Jacob,
all you who remain of the house of Israel,
you whom I have upheld since you were conceived,
and have carried since your birth."


As if God were gently singing over us "Remember your first days with Me.  The days when your heart said, "Your love is better than wine."  Remember the continual conscientiousness of My approval of you.  The confidence you had believing you were truly altogether beautiful in My eyes.  Your settled assurance that I kept no record of blemishes.  Remember how I filled your heart with joy.  My loving-kindnesses you depended on to comfort you.  The beautiful dreams I instilled within you."

"I am the SAME YESTERDAY, and TODAY, and FOREVER."

God is telling us, 'It was I who CARRIED the heavy load of your guilt and shame.  I have carried away and REMOVED the loathsome weight of all your sin.  You don't have to earn my approval.  In fact, you can't.  "Your sin has been so entirely atoned for and blotted out that it's power to keep you away from God HAS BEEN COMPLETELY and forever taken AWAY. (Andrew Murray)".  

'There are no more sacrifices to offer for it' (Hebrews). Stop bearing a load that has already been borne.  Stop perpetually sacrificing to an image of me that is not TRUE.  I AM the One who most certainly sustains your righteousness, not your own good works.  Jesus' BLOOD cleanses you from sin with an eternal CEASELESS effect, never our blood, sweat and tears.

"Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He,
I am He who WILL sustain you."

Listen to God in His Word.  He is whispering 'I love you'.  'Please hear me.  Rest on my shoulders in my arms alone, and let me carry you.  I who made you and who redeemed you WILL carry you again as in the first days.  I will rescue you from the loathsome burden.  I will deliver you to escape your captivity'.

"I have made you and I WILL CARRY YOU;
I WILL SUSTAIN YOU and I WILL RESCUE YOU."

You were never created to carry, but to BE CARRIED.