Need Help w. GCM church

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Immortal_Raven]

They will talk about you behind your back.  That's just a fact of life with a lot of groups, not just GC.  You just have to train yourself not to care.  It's harder than it sounds.  If they're truly your friends, they'll still be your friends if you leave. 

From what I've read, you're in a college setting.  Try some other Christian groups on campus.  Campus Crusade is pretty popular nationwide and one of the least cultish/controlling groups in my experience.  There are others out there as well.  But find something else in the spiritual realm.  One of the ways I was sucked in to GCx was that I hadn't been to church in months and was craving "spiritual milk".

I don't know your hobbies or interests, but if you're going to a GC church, you're at a decent sized college.  Find a university sponsored club and make friends there.  Art, philosophy, chess, foreign language, and tons more are out there.  These would help ease the pain of potentially losing friends.

Finally, tell it straight up that you don't want to move in with someone.  Yes, it will be hard.  Yes, it will hurt.  You have to think about your own well-being though.  If you can't live with it, you shouldn't have to.  In the short term it will hurt, but in the long term you'll be better for it.  Finally, I assume you're a Christian.  What is worse in God's eye?  Leaving a harmful situation for your own well-being, or living a lie every day?  Don't go by what I say or others on this forum say, don't go by what their leaders say, go by what the Bible says.

-Immortal_Raven

[MidnightRider]

Ophelia,

Sometimes when making a decision like this, it helps to think of how you would advise someone else. Suppose a close friend of yours came to you and said, "I've been going to this church. At first it seemed great, but now I am seeing problems. I want to leave, but I am afraid of what they will think about me," etc. What would you tell your friend?

If it were my friend, I would tell her that no matter how much these people seem to love you, if you feel that uncomfortable, you need to get out. The ones that are really your friends will respect your decision, whether they agree or not.

[Grounded]

I know how hard it is to think about leaving. I think I started thinking about leaving for about 2 years before I actually left. I invested 12 years of my life to these churches. When I moved to a different city with a church plant I thought it would be fun to be a part of a new church because most of my closest friends were married it made things easier- or so I thought. Loyalty is preached endlessly, and if you are single it is HIGHLY encouraged to live with other singles. Needless to say, living with a bunch of single people is ok when you are a college student, but if you are older and working that becomes less appealling. The people who I would have considered moving in with got engaged, so I avoided the issue for a long while. I was told I could become selfish if I did not move in with other singles because then we we all could serve the church together in "unity". The thing is, I knew I would not be true friends with these peope due to the fact that we did not have the same interests, etc. Church interests reign supreme in GC. So if you live in a house with 8 single women, not only are you sharing a room with 2 other people, you may be sleeping in the same bed with someone else because there was not enough room (this really happened with the single women in the church. There was a house rule that no one would have their own room- one room was reserved for other purposes.)
  Once they sense that you are not fully "in" with with everything you will get the cold shoulder treatment from some people. I knew some people for years, but when I started pulling away things changed. I remember very well walking by a person who I knew for years in a hallway after church one day just completely ignored me. This person is also a child of a prominant leader in GC. This just confirmed that loyalty is not a two way street. When I left I only talked with a few people about it- I did not talk to the pastor about because I knew exactly what he would say. I just stopped going- no one called or asked about me. That still stings, but I found out what their priorities were. I was not one of them apparently.

[Linda]

Ophelia, I'm so sorry. It is so hard when your eyes open up, you see what is happening, and then you realize the consequences of leaving. God bless you.

I just stopped going- no one called or asked about me.

Grounded, this line jumped out at me. I, too, couldn't figure out why no one called or asked about us. Our church had 7 (I think pastors), we had met with 5 of them (off and on, not at the same time) over many months as we tried to sort this out. When we did leave, we stated our reasons in our resignation letter. We mostly did that so the 2 that we hadn't met with would know why (since we figured they only had one side of the story).

We had tried so hard at the time to not say a lot to our friends (now I wouldn't worry about that at all, but then I did) and not say anything that would influence them negatively. Only a handful knew why we left.

We were very close to some pastors from some other locations. They never asked us why we left. To this day they still haven't. I guess they didn't want to hear our side of the story. It stings.

Then, last Fall, 4 years after we left, I ran into an ECC friend at the grocery store. In the course of our conversation, she asked me why we left. I started to explain, but paused and said, "Thank you for asking. You know, no one ever asked us why we left." She replied, "That's because we were told not to ask." I was stunned. It explained a lot.

When I read your comment about no one asking you why you left, I couldn't help but wonder if people are often told by GC leaders to not ask those who left why they left.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Ophelia, is there any way that we can help?  I'm sure logistically that could be difficult depending on where you are.  Is there anything we can do for you?  I have been praying for you.

[Ophelia]

Just being able to hear about other people's experiences and know that I'm not crazy is really helpful. I'm feeling a little better than i did this weekend although I'm still pretty nervous about leaving. I've decided that I need to do it in the next month or so. I got to talk to someone on here for awhile yesterday and that was so encouraging. I've decided that even though this will be really hard, in the end it's worth being free from all this. Prayers are soo appreciated. I don't know if there is anyone here from my state. I'm near colorado. Thank you all so much!

[AgathaL'Orange]

That's wonderful.  I'm glad to hear it!  I will pray for you.  I am not in that area... perhaps someone here is?

[Grounded]

I am from Colorado, and I know many people in the churches around the region.

[Kellie]

Hi Ophelia-

I was exactly in the same shoes you are a number of years ago. I was depressed and distraught. I thought something was wrong with me as a person and as a Christian because I couldn't go along with all the principles that GCM teaches. I knew I had to leave because it was slowly destroying my life. This was my freshman year of college and when I came home that summer (I lived in another state) I was able to see that I couldn't return to the church. As crazy as it sounds, I knew I couldn't even go back to that school because I would get sucked back in again. I know it is drastic, but I had to leave that school. I did keep in touch with a few friends from church. I never told them why I left because I knew as you mentioned that they would probably talk behind my back about how I was settling for God's second best.

I just want to echo what others have said. Don't worry about what other people are going to say. If you need to slip away quietly that is okay too. I would encourage you to talk with others who have left (please take advantage of contacting any of us!!). This will help you to have courage and know that you are not alone.

I went back and forth in my mind so many times, wondering if I was leaving God's best for my life and if I was doing the right thing. When your gut tells you something isn't right, it is ok to listen. Also, getting some distance from the church really helps to get perspective. :-)

Take care, you are in my prayers,

Kellie

[FeministRebel]

I found out I wasn't a priority when I had an immediate death in my family... I left, out of state, for 2 weeks... and no one bothered to even as much as send a card of condolences. Only one friend sent a potted plant, and no one wanted to join in with her to send flowers (despite her urging), or anything, because 'they'll already have enough flowers at the funeral.'

Since when is a funeral about how many flowers one has, or doesn't have? No one cared. No one asked how I was doing... It was just NOT important to them.

Then later... after I had returned, I found out they had added me o a public prayer list, without asking me. People I didn't even know would start showing up at my workplace, wanting to express their condolences. Let's just say... I don't mind people doing this, but I do mind it being done at my job, where I'm ill prepared to handle unexpected strangers.

I said something to my church... to please give me some time before praying for me publicly, like this, or to at least... instruct folks to not go to my workplace. Well... they used this as ammunition to hurt me, call me ungrateful, and to give me the cold shoulder. Till this day, even though I left... I've tried calling them, in the past, when I knew folks were in need, and it was an emergency where no one else might have the human labor resources to help -- as they have a strong service project ministry... Well, you know? They basically tell me to shove off, pretty much. "Why should we help you?" As if they were helping *me*, somehow.

No, no... These folks don't help others because Christ said so -- otherwise they wouldn't be fearing me, they'd be fearing God. These folks help people so they can look attractive in their own eyes, and rope people in to their church -- as a recruiting tactic. It hurts to realize those things, because I gave years of my life, and my sacrifice... and there are still SOME truly decent folks in there; but few and far between.

[2xA Ron]

When I read your comment about no one asking you why you left, I couldn't help but wonder if people are often told by GC leaders to not ask those who left why they left.

I'm thinking that's probably the case.  When I was booted off my team, I thought it would cause a big stir among my friends, but none of them asked about it.  One of the leaders did tell me that he'd told the team I was leaving for personal reasons or something like that.

I definitely agree with these posters, though, about leaving telling you who your real friends are.  I lost a lot of friends when I left the Rock (GC campus ministry), but I still have a few true friends who stick by me, and I discovered the strength and value of other friends I had outside the Rock.  The most important true friend I discovered was God.  Although GC rhetoric makes it sound like it's absolutely impossible to follow God without their claustrophobic communities--much less having a relationship with Him independently, that's pretty exactly what I'm doing now.  Since graduating and moving, I'm still establishing new circles of friends, still struggling to find room in my work schedule for church (I work for a major retailer, and they do most of their sales on weekends, go figure).  I'm not in a small group.  I don't meet weekly/daily with a Christian peer/leader who nit-picks at every facet of my life.  I'm not even a regular on Sunday mornings, and yet, I'm closer to God now than when I left.  I think a big part of that is that I've been able to see Him as separate from the GC system, or any system for that matter.  I've been able to see and experience that he loves me and cares about me as a person, an individual, and not as one cog in the wheels of some great church movement, and further that he can guide me and stick with me even when others cannot or will not.

So Ophilia, if you're still out there debating these things, I would just say follow God's leading in your own life and your own heart and do what's best for your relationship with him, without respect for what others say or think about it.  He'll never steer you wrong and in the end it will be well worth all the trouble people give you over it.  No matter what they say, they can't take what's between you and God!

[EverAStudent]

2xARon, you pondered the question of whether GC coaches the rank-and-file to avoid speaking with those who leave.  The answer seems to be (in many cases), no, not directly.  As far as my research has determined no one needs to tell the remaining congregation members to avoid contact with those who left "the best church since the 1st century," or "God's best for your life." 

Over the course of many sermons and teachings the not-so-subtle message of elitism becomes obvious as does the oft-repeated point that those who choose not to be part of GC are choosing God's "second best" and need not consume their attention and time.  One also learns that what the leaders do, you do.  When the leaders stop conversing with a member who leaves, you imitate that behavior, if you are "spiritual."

In short, there is no need for any leader to directly tell members to avoid contact with those who leave.  The rank-and-file will do this naturally, not wanting to become tainted by those who have only choosen God's second best.  Elitism will carry the message for them.

[araignee19]

I have to add: when I was leading, I was specifically instructed to tell one of "my girls" (man I hate that term!) to stop meeting with a close friend of her's because she didn't have enough time to meet with this friend (who was outside GC) and me (the appointed discipler, but not a friend). I confronted her about this, and told her she needed to make meeting with me a priority because it was more "fruitful" than meeting with this other friend. Not something I am proud of any more...

I was also pushed to spend less time with my family in order to do more with the team. Specifically, I was encouraged not to drive home on weekends to work (I was working a job that helped my family, and gave me money. We all needed for me to be there for one reason or another), among other small things here and there.

I will agree that most of the time, what happens is members are too busy, and encouraged to spend their time in the "best ways," which leaves no time or desire to have outside friendships. But when a member doesn't get the message, and attempts to spend time with non-GCers, it does happen that leaders push them to neglect non-GC relationships in order to spend more time with the "appropriate" people.

[2xA Ron]

I was never fully committed to the GC college ministry I was a part of (the Rock): I split my time between them and the non-GC Navs ministry I had joined first.  This was never an issue with the Navigators, but my leaders in the Rock confronted me about it several times saying I had to choose which ministry to be involved in because I could not be fully committed to both.  Later when I came into conflict with their beliefs and refused to take their "council" on some things, I the leader of the Rock told me I wouldn't have this conflict (it was my conflict) if I wasn't in two ministries and once and "divided" in which "authority to follow."  The GC doesn't play well with others. 

[Leftin87]

I did need help re:GCI when I started the whole journey of the leadership's control over everyone's life. I was 20, I was warned by my brother that it sounded like a cult. But I found a "family" of people that were so genuine and i thought cared about me. I was very involved and we used to visit the "sisters" in Ames. I went to Kansas City in 1976 to march on the Crown Plaza for Jesus. Ate so many peanut butter/honey sandwiches that I couldn't eat one today if you paid me.

Long story short, my former husband and I left the church along with another couple. We found out that the leadership held a church wide meeting informing everyone to avoid contact as we had "back-sliden". Wow.....can't believe I still remember the term. I've never in my life experienced such rejection. We lost our "friends", it was very difficult on our kids. Speaking of kids, "the bluer the wound, the quicker the response to obedience". Oh yah, our kids would obey more quickly if we left marks. Thankfully we didn't follow leader MD's parenting discipleship class. All these terms are making me laugh, nothing funny about it.

Yes I knew Jim Coleman......I will tread carefully here as there is pain with the scars. I never measured up, whether it was about weight, being a godly woman, etc. I had serious morning sickness, my husband was told that he lacked the fervent and prayerful relationship with God, that's why I was so sick. Jim and Pam came to our home, told us that they had cried over our lack of discipline of our 2-1/2 y.o. son. It was God's mandate that I home schooled my son, the list goes on and on. We fared better than those men and women who in the mid 70s were told to give up 4-year scholarships at the U of M for the gospel......the great commission. Some time around 1978 the church split, I went the way of GCI and the Coleman crew.

The Coleman's, Pribyls and the Branches went to Dover to start a new church. It was a McCotter thing. Jim didn't fit the bill for what McCotter and the top leadership in DC expected. The Minneapolis church, tried as they may, didn't grow in leaps and bounds until a phone blitz orchestrated by a PR member in the late 80s. Plus, Jim had his own vending machine business which kept his family fed. I believe his Dover log home was built with the hefty proceeds of selling the business.

I think the final straw was regarding the music thing. I was told that the leaders wanted to put their best foot forward and I was to be their front soloist. A couple months passed, I got pregnant, gained a few pounds and zoyks! No more assigned solos. I had conformed to wearing the attire that was the most "winsome". It was all like a slap in the face. Insults, rejection and bam!

There's so much more......I apologize for the wandering thought process. It was difficult, painful and just like the rest, Jim Coleman was emotionally and verbally abusive. I have so many stories. My point.....run as fast as you can from them. It took me 12 years to finally leave, and by then, the depression that I denied for so many years had taken its toll.

Nothing else....but yes I was there just 2 years after the Minneapolis church was started up by McCotter, Clark & Coleman.

[EverAStudent]

Welcome to the forum.  Thank you for the backstory.  As you will find out, everyone here is sorry you went through so much hardship brought on by the poor doctrine of untrained pastors.

[Linda]

I've never in my life experienced such rejection. We lost our "friends", it was very difficult on our kids.

Welcome. I am so sorry.

Speaking of kids, "the bluer the wound, the quicker the response to obedience". Oh yah, our kids would obey more quickly if we left marks.

Wow. I wonder if anyone has those old Jim McCotter teaching tapes where he says that. We just have quotes, but it would be interesting if any out there have the tapes.

Jim's teaching on discipline is another thing that Great Commission has not distanced themselves from.

[pvitartas]

Ophelia - you will find love and support until you start criticizing, thinking for yourself, or disagreeing.  Good luck, no sarcasm intended, really, good luck!

You may want to develop a support group or circle of friends to run to after you leave what is little more than a cult of mass movements with a goal of conquering the earth (world evangilization).  When you leave, it is likely you will feel deep guilt, failure, etc.  Take care.

[Ophelia]

I haven't been on here in quite some time and I'm touched to see some replies all these years later. Leaving the Rock Church in Salt Lake City was one of the most difficult decisions I've ever had to make. Looking back, however, my only regret is not having left sooner. To anyone that's in a similar position to where I was when I created that post, I'm so sorry that you have to go through this and I also have hope that you can do what you need to do to take care of yourself and make out in one piece. Spiritual abuse and control is very painful and damaging. The journey back to yourself takes time and is so worthwhile. Good luck to all!