Questions about Evergreen Bloomington

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Mr.Guy]

Hello, before I start a little background info:

So as you can probably tell I am new to this forum. I actually found this after googling some stuff on one of the associated church's pastors. I will get to that later. Anyways, a little background info. So I am a Minnesota native, grew up in a small town in central Minnesota and grew up in a Baptist church. Eventually moved to St Cloud and then eventually Minneapolis for college / work. I lived in a few different cities in the Metro area and went to a few different churches. And eventually after trying to find a church I liked I found the Rock which seemed pretty cool. My wife and I got involved in small groups for a while, but eventually stopped. Also, just FYI, our stopping had nothing to do with the group or the church really. It was probably due more to the fact that we are both pretty introverted and it took us out of our element. And partially due to the fact that we were off course with our faith in God for a few years prior. Anyways, we went to the Rock a few times while they were at some school in Minneapolis (I can't remember the name) and then again a few times after they relocated to the Urban Refuge.

My first impression of this church was pretty good. People introduced themselves to us right away and asked us to hang out with them. That rarely happened at any of the churches we have ever gone to. The pastor was engaging and a great story teller. And the music was not like any other church I had been to. But after getting  involved in small groups and going a few weeks in a row it eventually started to feel odd ( or fake, I am not sure). Anyways, I don't want to say there was any specific thing, because I honestly don't know. But we stopped going for a half year or so. Then time passed and my wife and I still hadn't found a church that we felt good about. So we tried the rock again at the Urban Refuge. We went to a couple services and they where okay. This lead me to start listening to the podcasts from the pastor's sermons online. So I listened to them for a whole week at work. So about 8 hours a day for 5 days straight. And that was when I noticed things were off. First thing I noticed was he rarely preached from scripture and most of his sermon seemed opinionated with some biblical stuff sprinkled in. A lot of it was I did this, my family does this, my kids do this, followed by you should too. It all seemed very self righteous to me and I didn't feel like I was learning anything. Anyways, I was eventually off-put by it and decided to give Evergreen Bloomington a try. Now here is my honest opinion about Evergreen. So far my wife and I have been going there for a couple of years now. And overall we like it. And before finding this site I knew nothing about the past of this church or much about the pastors. And honestly I really like the pastors at evergreen. I think they do a good job speaking from scripture and I find them very engaging. But now after finding this site I am wondering what should I know or are there members of this forum who still attend any of these churches who can shed some light. Did you forgive in forget? Would this be a good church to raise my kids in? Also some have mentioned major theological errors being taught in the past. Does anyone still have opinions on this with factual examples?

Oh, and to back track a little. I actually just found this forum yesterday. I actually for some reason said self. Lets get a little God time in this week at work. Okay, what to do? I know self, lets listen to a Rock podcast. So I did, and then half way through I remembered. And I said self, I can't listen to this anymore it feels self righteous and shaming. So then as I do sometimes, I said self. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this. And then the googling began. And here I am..

So please share your thoughts and ideas. Thank you,

[Linda]

Hello, Mr. Guy. Welcome.

My name is Linda and I attended Evergreen for 10 years. From 1995 until 2005.

We were very active in small groups, teaching Sunday School, and my husband and two of my children played in the worship band.

Looking back, attending Evergreen was THE BIGGEST parenting mistake I made and it continues to have sad repercussions even though we have been gone for nearly 10 years. It's like those sticky mouse traps, try as you might, if you step on one, it's nearly impossible to detach your shoe.

What we loved about the church was what we perceived as "close" friendships (try leaving and you will soon learn the meaning of "conditional friendships") that in the long run were not. We had never heard the history. Try Googling "Great Commission and Cults", or Jim McCotter (the founding apostle whose name we NEVER heard mentioned in 10 years).

The straw that broke the camel's back for us was when our high school daughter was on a national retreat in Colorado called HSLT and was asked to commit to a Great Commission Church FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

Before that retreat, things had started to come to a head. Mark Darling had spoken at an all church (Rock, Urban Refuge, all ECC locations) event called "Fanning the Flame" and taught that leaving your local GC church was the equivalent of divorcing your wife. He said "we", the congregation were "his" (Mark's) bride. CDs of that talk were widely distributed for free because they felt it was so good and important for all to hear.

Mark was a Rock pastor and we attended Bloomington, so we contacted Spencer, since my husband was in the band. He said it hadn't "sat right" with him either and got Brent involved. We had many meetings (final meeting was Spencer and Mark Darling), but one in particular stands out because Brent said, "Just like the husband is the head of the family, the pastor is the head of the church." Whoa!!

That is heresy. Ephesians 5:23 makes it clear that Christ is the head of the Church. (For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.)

GC pastors teach that they speak for God. They say that obeying the pastor is obeying God. This is not Protestant theology which teaches that the final authority is the Word of God. In Protestant theology, pastors (or popes) do not speak for God and the Word of God is the final authority (Sola Scriptura). They probably don't even know that because they are uneducated in matters of theology and doctrine and use their own GCLI training as their source of doctrine.

You can read the details of our departure on my husband's blog post here:

http://www.tmdugan.blogspot.com/2006/06/church-what-is-essential-mere-church.html

This post that was written nearly a year after our departure, caused us a lot of trouble and led to a shunning.

I need to emphasize that I do not hate these people. Some were very good friends and I have no doubt that they think I have betrayed them by posting here.

I do recommend that you keep your posts anonymous. I post by name and we did receive letters from Brent and Mark trying to "reconcile" on Good Friday 2012--7 years after we left. I want to emphasize that we wish all GC pastors only the best. No reconciling is necessary. Public correcting of false teaching, however, is necessary. You don't "reconcile" false teaching. You correct it.

God bless you.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Mr. Guy,

It's so cool how the uniqueness God created in each of us comes across especially when we are freely transparent. (Of course, I don't mean sharing unnecessary or inappropriate things.) I was tickled by the way you shared your helpful "self-talk". That is such a good way to see beyond our physical senses to what the Holy Spirit or our gut may be trying to say to us. Stopping in our habitual tracks and doing an examination of the real facts, not our possible wrongly persuaded emotions.

Your honesty is welcomed here and further promotes this website.  It is not just for those who have left, but also for those inside who want the freedom to discuss uncertainties.  Unfortunately it seems nearly all who have attempted to discuss their concerns regarding this church group/organization inside the church (especially with leader-types) have been met with pretended acceptance, then slandered behind their back. Or met with silence, hushing, dismissal of their issues, outright rebuking, or casting off from fellowship.

This is probably a move by the HOLY Spirit to bring you here, where you CAN voice your opinions, your experiences, and your witness of unhealthy and abusive activity by GCI, GCM, GCC, CCN, or whatever they change their name to lately, to loose the trail of witnesses of their spiritual abuse.  

You'll notice that Linda's experience was 1995 - 2005.  One BIG excuse they may give you for any concerns (especially regarding things posted on this site) is that the bad stuff was all in the past, and was reconciled & corrected by a document they produced in 1991 called "The Weakness Paper".  They have even fooled some authors who previously published papers and books about their SPIRITUAL ABUSE with this so-called  'document'. So, they are GOOD at disguising their behavior and hiding in the shadows.  But Linda and MANY others have actually been to these churches since 1991, or well after, and have STILL FOUND THEM spiritually abusive.  As you look at the dates of people speaking out here, you can see there are PLENTY in even the past 10 years since Linda left.  The bad yeast has really never been thrown out of this organization. Jesus himself said, 'yeast leavens the whole lump of dough'

What you did in listening to teachings back to back & comparing it to what you know scripture teaches or studying to see what it really teaches (like the noble-MINDED Bereans) is an interesting method. Separating out the persuasive charisma and tone of authority from the actual things taught or implied.  Without the backdrop of music, or relational ties, setting it by itself to examine.  Good idea.  Maybe others may be assisted by listening to it with an outside wise christian friend or leader if they are not as familiar with the Spirit's leading and revealing the heart of scripture.


Here are some other questions you might possibly ask your "self":

Is it possible it was easier to leave the first group because I had less time invested in relationships there?

Are there present relationship ties I don't want to sever so I may possibly be ignoring other red flags?

By being there, am I motivated by a better understanding of God's love to trust him,
Or am I motivated by shame and guilt to serve him?


Again, glad you came here to share your quest with us : )

Janet

[Mr.Guy]

Hello Linda,

I appreciate the response and personal insights. And actually I had done a little research on Jim McCotter, but thanks for the suggestion. It was actually because of this forum that I started to research him.

But anyways back to Evergreen. From my experience so far over the past couple years I haven't heard any of the pastors say these type of things or portray this message during Sunday services. But on the flip side my wife and I haven't really fully embedded ourselves either so maybe we are just seeing the surface. We are more or less wallflowers at the moment. We go to the service but we are not members and we have not gone to any of the outside activities.

This is probably because we really haven't gone out of our way to get involved either. After the first service we introduced ourselves to Spencer but I don't think he remembers us. It was actually about a month ago when Brent first introduced himself. So I don't know, maybe this is just normal in bigger churches. And maybe it is partially do to the fact that my wife and I are both very reserved. But still part of me feels like it should be easier to get to know people at church. Anyways, I digress.

Besides that maybe being my only personal gripe at the moment. I actually think Brent and Spencer are pretty good speakers. And on top of that they reference Bible passages the whole way through. (which is surprisingly not common in a lot of churches) And the lack of is what made me stop attending the Rock. I felt Mark was a bit opinionated and not enough factual. But I haven't noticed anything from Brent or Spencer that made me think now that is dead wrong. I have actually found them to be quite engaging. Then again this could also be due to my own lack of theological understanding. Which is why I was wondering if anyone had any examples of false teachings. Or opinions on some of their recent sermons (podcasts).

As far as raising kids go, I was raised in a Baptist church. And I spent a lot of time in Awanna (which is a pretty good program imo). But to be honest, I don't find most of the pastors at the baptist churches to be very engaging. Which is really important to my wife and I. My son is still a toddler so I haven't really started to think real hard about it. But what I do know is that my wife and I would want to raise our son and future daughter in a positive church environment. And would like to eventually embed ourselves in a church, especially as our children get older.

And so far Evergreen (or at least until I found this forum) seems pretty good. So I really do appreciate honest and hopefully unbiased opinions. I know we will need to ultimately decide where to attend. And at the moment evergreen has been or is the church we have felt the most comfortable with so far.

Thanks again Linda for your input. I hope to hear from others.

[Mr.Guy]

Janet,

Thank you for your reply. And yes I have noticed many of the other responses. I have seen there are concerns throughout the nation. But I was also kind of surprised how many were specific to Evergreen and the Rock. That really got my attention. To be honest something seemed off about the Rock. But I never really thought anything of it in regards to evergreen. Maybe the only thing that seemed off about Evergreen was the lack of formal training. But that wasn't really a deal breaker for me. As I know plenty of people with no formal training whom's opinions I respect in regards to the gospel.

As for your questions:

Is it possible it was easier to leave the first group because I had less time invested in relationships there?

Maybe, but to be honest I would have no problem leaving evergreen as I literally still know nobody there. As I mentioned a bit in my comment to Linda. Mostly we continue to go because my wife and I both enjoy the services. And she is not quite as good with change as myself. So she might be a bit more hesitant.

Are there present relationship ties I don't want to severe so I may possibly be ignoring other red flags?

Again, same goes for my previous comment. We really don't know anybody. Even the people at the nursery have not introduced themselves to us.

By being there, am I motivated by a better understanding of God's love to trust him,
Or am I motivated by shame and guilt to serve him?

I would say more this for Evergreen:

By being there, am I motivated by a better understanding of God's love to trust him,

And more this for the Rock:

Or am I motivated by shame and guilt to serve him?


Thanks again,

[Linda]

I would actually recommend that you listen to audio of ECC/GC teaching for yourself. You could start here.

http://gcxweb.org/Audio/TheSWord-08-13-2006.aspx

I would remind you, that for a pastor to say, "And so even to give the controls over to God, that's hard, but the real kicker here is God is saying, "give the controls over to people that I work through, and these people are fallible, these people make mistakes, these people are weak at times. You-outta work through it anyway," that's what God says," is about as huge a theological error as a person can make.

Brent has never backed down from this teaching.

In addition, commitment to pastors for life and obedience to elders has repeatedly been taught at national conferences like Faithwalkers for many years by men who sit on the national board. Great Commission truly believes this is sound doctrine. They do not want to change.

Here is a link to the talk Mark Darling gave at the HSLT my daughter attended. The solution to this bit of heresy was to have Mark Darling write us a letter 7 years later to inform us that he was going to remove the teaching from the file. Their solution to being called out on false teaching is to remove the teaching and not to CORRECT the teaching.

http://gcxweb.org/Audio/Comm9and10-HSLT-07-24-2005.aspx

There are also many threads on this forum that discuss the bad teaching and give specific examples, so look around. I would also mention that I attended ECC for nearly 10 years and had no idea what they really believed until it came out in a big and traumatic way. I agree with Janet, if you are getting a bad feeling, it could be the Holy Spirit directing you to the Truth.

[Mr.Guy]

Hello Again Linda,

I appreciate the response. Also, I couldn't get the audio file to work, but I read the excerpts. As far as what Mark said in his sermon about "joining the church for life". While I don't feel I agree with what he is proposing. I also wouldn't say I took it as a command either.

As for what Brent said, I feel I sort of agree. I mean I believe as Christians we should obey our leaders as it is said in Hebrews 13:17. And I also believe that leaders will be held accountable before God for their decisions as a leader. So I think that it is a role that comes with great responsibility. But on the flip side I also believe Christians (pastors, members, and non-members) are all filled with the Holy Spirit. And because of this we all are responsible for a healthy church. But with that in mind, we should also not make claims against an elder without sufficient evidence as it says in 1 Timothy 5:19.

So at the moment this is how I see it. There are few people here who would say they have sufficient evidence, and there are probably a few people at Evergreen who say they don't. Now I am not going to lie, I have had some mixed feelings about the Rock. But I can't honestly say I have had them about Evergreen. But what I think about this...

"And so even to give the controls over to God, that's hard, but the real kicker here is God is saying, "give the controls over to people that I work through, and these people are fallible, these people make mistakes, these people are weak at times. You-outta work through it anyway," that's what God says,"

Is maybe it was taken wrongly by some, and maybe Brent didn't do such a great job of explaining what he was trying to say. I think maybe he was trying to maybe make a point on Hebrews 13:17. But if so, he should have cited scripture. So yes, citing scripture and accurate doctrine is important to me. Now I don't know what all happened as far as if he tried to explain or if was confronted by those confused. This was all many years ago. So I think what I should do is probably pray on it, consult with my wife, and continue to learn and understand what is being said in the Bible.

But with that said, I do appreciate what has been communicated and I thank you for your time. I will take all of this into consideration as my wife and I continue to decide how or where we continue to invest ourselves in Christ.

Thanks again,

[Linda]

I believe you came here because you have had some misgivings about some of the teaching you have heard. You are wise to listen and see if what is taught measures up to the Truth of Scripture.

I would caution you to make sure you understand what Great Commission teaches as you keep in mind that two of the leaders of your church sit on the national board and therefore are responsible for the teaching of more than their local church.

Make no mistake, GC churches teach commitment for life & obedience to elders (even if they are wrong). They have never backed down from this teaching. They came up with a Statement of Error, but when I asked Brent about a Statement of Error and Apology (that I had learned of by Googling), he got a confused look on his face and said he vaguely remembered something, but it was more like a "statement of clarification". He offered to get us a copy. He never did. Larry Pile sent us one. We were shocked. When someone on the national board doesn't even remember the statement of apology and at the same time continues doing the things they "apologized" for, it leads you to conclude that the apology wasn't sincere.

You had asked in an earlier comment about some of the false teaching. Here is a link, but there are many other threads on this forum that discuss and quote in detail. The Truth matters. The Bible is the final authority. Christians all have been gifted. The newest believer can speak truth to the oldest pastor. I will NEVER give the controls of my life, or blindly obey any man.

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/totally-committed/

[Mr.Guy]

Linda,

Firstly I want to make this clear. I am not picking sides and I am neither committed or uncommitted at this moment to Evergreen. It just happens to be where we go on Sundays at the moment. And up until I found this site I didn't think much of it.

Also so I am clear... this..

I believe you came here because you have had some misgivings about some of the teaching you have heard. You are wise to listen and see if what is taught measures up to the Truth of Scripture.

Is partially true. But only in regards to stuff I heard Mark say. I can not say the same for Evergreen currently. So yes the connections / relationships between Evergreen pastors and the Rock is concerning. But at this moment not particularly compelling.

And as for this...

Make no mistake, GC churches teach commitment for life & obedience to elders (even if they are wrong).

I half agree. I also think obedience to elders is important as it says in Hebrews. There will always be leaders and there should be. God has given some the ability or gift of leadership. And for those of us who are non-leaders we should obey, submit, support and pray for them. And I do think that if something was overwhelmingly disturbing that enough people would probably say something. Which brings me to another question. So maybe this has happened and enough people have said something. What is the current process for removing someone from leadership if enough people feel that person is abusing their power? Who has a say? Is their a board of people who vote? Do the church members vote?

However, I do not agree with commitment for life. This seems wrong. A church should not divide Christians from other Christians.  But honestly I don't really agree in denominations either. I think that denominations break us apart from being one body. But anyways, that is a different discussion.

Anyways, I think eventually my Wife and I will probably seek some other churches. Try them out at least, but we are just not sure which one at the moment. Some other things that concern me are that leadership has not changed in 20+ years at these churches. One thing I thought the Baptist (from my home town) church did right, was that they would only allow a pastor to lead the church for 10 years max.

And my second concern is the lack of seminary training in the staff. Or at least their is no mention of it in their bios. Now I don't think that seminary training is a must have. But I would think that out of the 6 pastors or whatever they have now.. That their would be some diversity in that aspect. Anyways, Just some thoughts..

[Mr.Guy]

Thanks again for the response Linda,

Well that doesn't sound very good. Also, I forgot to ask. You mentioned Larry Pile. Who is Larry Pile?

[Huldah]

I mean I believe as Christians we should obey our leaders as it is said in Hebrews 13:17. And I also believe that leaders will be held accountable before God for their decisions as a leader.

Hi, Mr.Guy, and welcome to the forum. Perhaps it would be useful to define what "obey your leaders" means. To the extent that our leaders exhort us to follow Scripture ("do not steal, do not commit immorality, do not worship idols," and so forth) we are to obey them. During my brief time at Solid Rock in Columbus, obeying our leaders was a much more intrusive and onerous burden than simply living a godly life. The elders were expected to have a say in whether you stayed in college or dropped out, whether and to whom you got married, and similarly personal decisions. Too often, these decisions weren't made with the welfare of the individual in mind, but rather to enhance the reputation of the church. I don't know if Evergreen operates in that way. I would only encourage you that when they, or any other church, uses a Scriptural phrase like, "obey your leaders," you shouldn't assume that it means the same thing to them that it would mean to you.

[Linda]

Excellent comment, Huldah.

A couple other thoughts come to mind.

First of all, not all authority is legitimate authority. Just because someone says he or she is in authority over you doesn't mean they are.

Also, a word that comes to mind is "jurisdiction". What is the extent or limit of someone's authority?

For example, a policeman has the authority to issue me a speeding ticket if I am speeding. He/she does not have the right to come to my house and demand I make him/her breakfast. A policeman's authority is limited to enforcing the law and keeping peace.

Likewise, spiritual authority is limited to the preaching/teaching of the Word. Inasmuch as a spiritual leader speaks in line with Scripture, their advice is to be heeded. Telling someone where to go to church, or who to marry, or how many children to have, or whether or not to continue with their education and claiming they must obey because they are your pastor is an abuse of spiritual authority.

The word "obey" in Hebrews 13:17 is a different Greek word than the word "obey" used in Ephesians 6 where it says "Children, obey your parents." The meaning of obey in Hebrews 13:17 is "allow yourself to be persuaded by". In other words, a person sitting under the teaching of a legitimate spiritual authority should be inclined to be persuaded in matters that pertain to obeying the Bible.

A legitimate spiritual leader would never ask someone to obey them and say, "Your job is to obey, mine is to give an account." Huge red flag if someone says that. We all must give an account. Not just pastors. (Romans 14:12)

Here is the link to the Greek word used for obey in Hebrews 13:17:

http://biblehub.com/greek/3982.htm

Oh, anyone want to explain who Larry Pile is? I will do that later when I have more time unless someone else wants to answer.

[araignee19]

And my second concern is the lack of seminary training in the staff. Or at least their is no mention of it in their bios. Now I don't think that seminary training is a must have. But I would think that out of the 6 pastors or whatever they have now.. That their would be some diversity in that aspect. Anyways, Just some thoughts..

Hi Mr. Guy,

I think seminary training is very valuable. Not necessary, I agree, but especially in our world with so many false ideas floating around, it is a good idea. In my experience, GC pastors were actually discouraged from attending seminary. There was also an attitude among members and leaders that seminary was unnecessary and a waste of time, or at least not the best use of time. I can only think of one GC pastor who attended seminary out of the many I met over my 5 years in this group.

Also, just FYI since it can be hard to see the notification, I sent you a private message with some more thoughts in it.

[araignee19]

Here is some hard evidence of some of the things mentioned above. This is not from Evergreen, but is a commonly held value within GCx.
http://gcxweb.org/Audio/Comm9and10-HSLT-07-24-2005.aspx

And a few other resources.
http://gcxweb.org/TopTen.aspx

[blonde]

Here is Mark Darling talking crazy:

https://sites.google.com/site/gcmstatementofweaknessexposed/MARKDARLINGQUOTES.mp3

[araignee19]

Here is Mark Darling talking crazy:

https://sites.google.com/site/gcmstatementofweaknessexposed/MARKDARLINGQUOTES.mp3

I have to say, other than the last clip where he claims to be a prophet, I do not think any of these clips make Mark Darling sound crazy. Unless it was very subtle, I didn't hear anything theologically inaccurate. I didn't hear any of the false doctrines of GCx. I hear a very passionate preacher, who is a little bit beyond my tastes as far as style, but who has not said anything wrong (again with the one exception). I also do not like that all of these clips are taken out of context, as it is impossible to get an accurate idea of what he is saying.

I don't say this because I think Mark Darling has never taught inaccurate doctrines; he has and continues to. I have heard him on multiple occasions teach things I think come close to, or simply are, heresy. But this is simply attacking the wrong thing, and discrediting the valid concerns people have in the process.

[Linda]

What is the current process for removing someone from leadership if enough people feel that person is abusing their power? Who has a say? Is their a board of people who vote? Do the church members vote?

Last night I was scrolling through these comments on my phone and accidentally erased my answer to your question, Mr. Guy, so thought I'd answer it again.

All elders(pastors) in Great Commission Churches are appointed by current elders. The line of succession goes all the way back to the founding of Great Commission around 1970 when Jim McCotter (and some would add Dennis Clark and Herschel Martindale) founded "the movement".

Potential elders sit under the mentorship of a current elder and go through the GCLI teachings (GCLI is the name of the theology course that Great Commission elders have written). When a church decided to call (they use the term "recognize") a pastor, the elders make the decision and announce it to the "congregation". Members are allowed to voice their opinion over a few weeks, but the current elders make the final decision.

The board of trustees is made up of men who are appointed by the elders (in GC pastors and elders mean the same thing). The bottom line is that they say the board of trustees is "independent" of the board of elders, however, the trustees are appointed and can be removed by the board of elders at any time.

The congregation can not remove an elder. Only current elders could remove an elder.

The congregation never has a meaningful vote.

You also asked about Larry Pile. I will include an excerpt from my husband's blog post that explains a bit of who he is.

Googling "Great Commission International, Jim McCotter and cults" (and at this point we were beginning to worry about that) put us in touch with more information, most of it critical. We got information from Wellspring Retreat Center in Ohio, founded in the mid-80s by Dr. Paul Martin, a former Great Commission elder. Begun while helping others get over their experience in the Great Commission movement, it currently maintains a large research library and treats people from all sorts of cults and abusive groups. His book, Cultproofing Your Kids Zondervan 1993, includes his own experience with Great Commission. I bought the book. His colleague, Larry Pile, also a former GC member and leader in the early days, talked with me at length about the history and development of GC. He sent me a 200-plus page research paper devoted to this movement. His opinion was unequivocal.

The beginning of Great Commission (The Blitz) was marked by aggressive, successful outreach on a number of college campuses across the country. Founder Jim McCotter was a charismatic and influential evangelist who along with a handful of co-workers recruited a sizeable following in a few short years. The blessing of God was on these young people as they witnessed boldly for the Lord in the early 70s.

According to Pile, it was a little later when “assemblies” began to organize that some dark clouds began to form around the ideas of leadership, authority, and the Body of Christ. His account of what followed includes story after story of excesses, excommunications (in one case, from the worldwide Body of Christ!), and errant teaching around the theme of Our Strategy, Authority, Our Cause and so on. The founder seems to have exercised a controlling style and formed a sort of theology of it culminating in his book co-authored with Dennis Clark, Leadership: Apostles and Elders 1984 GCI. I have the book. It’s not very well written, more like a stream-of-consciousness rant (like this blog?), but includes some highly questionable stuff—very authoritarian, exclusivistic. Even while dismissive of other Christian groups and most of Christian history, at one point it shouts, “There must be unity at all cost [sic.]. When believers divide over so-called doctrine, they are always trampling under foot the cardinal doctrine—UNITY.” (Emphasis theirs) I suppose truth had to take a back seat.

[/i]

Within the last couple years, Larry has "reconciled" with GC over some of the difficulties in the past. However, I have been in communication with him since and he expressed concern about some things that have happened in the recent years.