Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D. introduction

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

Hey guys,



First, I wish you all could provide a section where we can leave our comments up and not get later thrown into an archive or in background responses that few ever see.



Second, I feel your pain and understand. Some of you might know me from your past or have heard of me. I am a former National Leader of Great Commission and church planter in the USA and abroad.



After having been with Great Commission since the ground floor inception (pretty much) and having been with the movement for around 25 years, I would like to add my two cents.



About 7-8 years ago, I went through my own fiasco with Great Commission locally and nationally. For years I pointed out how the movement could improve and grow. Among my strong suggestions I posited requiring future staffers to attend a reputable Bible schools/seminaries such as Moody Bible Institute and others. They were enthusiastic. To others of my suggestions and/or concerns I received a deaf ear.



Without going into many details, my local situation with my co-leaders deteriorated due to slander, politics, immaturity, etc. I was forced out despite my efforts to bring the church to healthier models of relational dynamics and discipleship. The national leaders at the time, contributed to this confusion by meddling and inspiring the leaders to greater boldness to get rid of me (they will disagree on this to this day). I confronted them in person. They were gracious to listen to me and tried their best and within their spiritual capabilities to care. Basically, to sum up many interactions, silent treatment, and confrontations, I saw they did not want to do much to keep me with them nor were interested in my suggestions to the movement, for the most part. This was devastating to me since I know these guys like the back of my hand. I had previously pointed out to them other National Leaders, who like me, were entrepreneurs and left out of fall outs of frustration and they did little or nothing to seek reconciliation.



I lost everything and almost lost my house three times. I went from being a “hero to a zero” overnight. No more phone calls from elders/pastors I loved and had a relationship with.

I almost had a nervous breakdown and went into a depression.



It has been about 7+ years. The Lord has taken me full circle via a wonderful journey of healing. I can sincerely say that I have no resentment or bitterness towards the Great Commission brothers. If I were to meet any of them in an airport I would embrace them with a bear hug and get an update on their lives and families.



The Lord has moved me on. I went back to graduate school full time to retool and at the same time worked full time. After my Masters degree, I worked three places (my private counseling practice, a medical clinic working with trauma patients, and teaching at Miami Dade College. I did this while getting a Ph.D. in Family Psychology. God is blessing my life more and more. I have more influence in the city with churches, pastors, the medical community, and college students than I have ever dreamed. I see miracles almost on a daily basis.



I have learned since my Great Commission days, that most Christian groups and denominations have as dirty diapers or more than Great Commission. As a psychotherapist, I counsel and serve as close advisor to city pastoral groups. I know enough “dirt” about almost every denomination and many churches. There is stuff that would make Great Commission look like an angel in comparison. What does this show? It shows that we must be filled with, not only truth, but with grace, as our Lord was. We must have a spirit of reconciliation and healing in our lives. We live in a broken world where things are not clean and lines fall imperfectly. We must seek unity and healing with all believers, including Great Commission. Most believers and leaders tend to love Jesus. Imperfectly… but they do love Jesus. Jesus cuts us slack. We should do the same.



In my journey of healing, I noticed that I took positions and needed to be vindicated. The ego loves positionalities. It loves either having total aggrandizement or total victimhood. Both provide the juice needed for the ego to thrive. The cure to this is surrender and brokenness to God and His truth. When we can pass on to this level, we find that most folks have good hearts and try their best but have dysfunctions that limit them. I certainly have mine. Hence I can cut my brother slack.



Is Great Commission perfect? Absolutely not! They have serious issues that must be addressed eventually. Do they have bad hearts? Absolutely not! Same for my Baptist brothers, my Christian Missionary Alliance brothers, my Christian Reformed brothers, my Independent Fundamentalist church brothers, my Pentecostal brothers, my Vineyard brothers, my Luteran brothers, etc, etc.



Praise God for anyone trying to love people and get the Gospel out! I rejoice! I may not like how they do it, or if they are a Democrat and believe in Global Earth Warming… but Praise God!



I hear you guys. I see and feel your pain. I encourage that as you heal from your real wounds, you embrace a spirit of being able to Bless those who have hurt you and Pray for them enthusiastically.



God bless your journey for His glory!



Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.

[MamaD]

“Do they have bad hearts? Absolutely not!”

The issue of the “heart” is an interesting one to me because I have heard it a lot from many GCM leaders in an attempt to explain why they won’t listen to the negative aspects of the history of “The Movement”.

The day before we left Evergreen, we sat with a pastor at Starbuck’s for 3 hours asking every question we needed to ask before cutting ties.

We had a copy of Larry Pile’s book, Marching to Zion in front of us and were puzzled that over the course of several months we could not get an Evergreen pastor to EVEN LOOK at the book. We were actually hoping one would look at it and refute it.

So, we asked the pastor, “Why won’t you even look at this book?” The answer he gave was, “I don’t need to because I know the hearts of all the Evergreen pastors.”

That was frightening.

Who can judge someone’s heart? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can judge a heart.

We, then, are left pondering actions and statements and need to “judge” them by the only perfect standard. God’s Word.

Also, I have often heard the phrase “there is no perfect church” used. (It was used by one pastor to preface his response to our question of why a pastor had referred to the congregation as his–the pastor’s–bride) It seems to me that the “no perfect church” argument is a “red herring” to get the person mentioning some major church problem off the problem and into a discussion of whether or not a perfect church exists.

Truth needs to be embraced. Falsehood needs to be pointed out and corrected.

I, personally, do pray regularly for my friends in GCM churches and do pray God’s blessing and wisdom on them. And, I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to think that because I believe there are some major problems with their beliefs, that I wish them ill. I am still friends with many GCMers.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Sam, I agree with you that most leaders and believers love Jesus. I think that is what is so confusing about GCM for us. Or at least me. I guess I can’t speak for anyone else.
They are sincere.
They seem to really love God.
They are really, really nice.
But they are wrong and somehow in the sincere, loving, niceness… they have hurt others. It would be easier for newcomers if there was something clearly “wrong” with the group. But the “wrongness” doens’t come out until you’ve already committed everything to the group… including your reputation. Then you find out the history and you begin to notice that you aren’t the same person anymore.
I am sure my ego IS involved with this blogging endeavor, but I hope that my ego isn’t my central focus. I really want to see this group go mainstream.
And some of us have a lot to lose. We have friends and family in the movement and we would never want to hurt them in such a way that they could never recover or in a way that would permanently harm our relationship.
The odd thing is, I don’t feel resentment or bitterness either, but that doesn’t change the fact that they need to change. And change big. I am happy to see more of the GCAC churches have seminary trained pastors on staff. These pastors are trained at Dallas, Fuller (don’t quote me on this), and Bible degrees from mainstream, solid schools. This is WONDERFUL. I would like to see the rest of the movement catch up. This goes a long way to countering the bad old days.

[Anonymous]

I agree with mamad, the plurality of leadership can be a cover up group. worse I think it is inevitable. it is as if there are no leaders, you keep your seat in the boat as long as you don’t rock the boat, or worse, think for yourself and seek to improve the organization with reasonable suggestions like Samuels. I think pastors are chosen based on their willingness to follow, not their ability to lead. a cattleman would call gcm’s pastor selection/raising
inbreading, and all that that implies for the strength of the herd. I don’t think gcm wants leaders.
I left a gcm church when I realized I was more of an extra in a local production then a part of the body of Christ. I was one of the sheep, and we all know sheep just do what there told. and if a sheep or two or 200 get out of line, the pastors can well…. just get different sheep, DON’T GET ME STARTED.
plurality is a farse.
Duped

[Genevieve]

Thanks, Samuel. We’ll look into ways to bring people’s comments to the forefront. Perhaps you’re thinking of something more like a forum or a discussion board?

Anyway, I’m really glad you’ve been able to move on, find peace, and minister to others.

I was trying to explain to my non-GCM-influenced sister why I wanted to write about this so much. Why did it still matter? I’ve already left. Why couldn’t I just move on, she wondered. If I really thought they were so bad, I should tell them to their faces and pray for them. Blogging under a pen name seemed underhanded, pointless, and malicious to her.

Maybe it is. I don’t feel like I was personally wronged so I’m not angry at anyone in particular (though some people exemplify bad behavior more than others) or licking old wounds.

But I feel like it needs to be said and that having it out in the open is cleansing and good.

Thousands of people write their complaints about growing up Catholic. It’s like its own sub-culture. Maybe that’s what we ex-GCMers are too. We’re not trying to hurt anyone or even change anything. We just need to say it and connect with a community of people who experienced the same things we did.

And hopefully, by writing it, we can make sense of what happened, what we felt, and why.

Then, after we’ve taken a full accounting, we can fully and truly heal and forgive.

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

Genevieve, Anonymous…



First let me congratulate you Genevieve for moving in the direction of forgiveness and wholeness (I’m not trying to exclude Anonymous). I think the key is to be full of “grace and truth” as our Lord. Truth frees us from the lies our ego loves to latch onto and grace gives us the ability to chill out, cut ourselves slack and not take ourselves so seriously but laugh, and then also give compassion and understanding to others who don’t have the light we might be currently bless with. We need forgiveness from God and others. Hence we need to dish it out also.



I believe that the guys in GC are very good guys but simply are experiencing what many other leaders in other churches and denominiations experience: lack of light, developmental deficiencies projected in doctrine and ministry, battles with their own ego (aggrandizement/victimization), etc., etc.



When we see that GC is no different than most believers, leaders, and other movements and denominations, we then can have compassion on all, realizing we are a big work of grace ourselves.



As for Anonymous’ being hard on plurality of elders. I would simply encourage him/her to lighten up on that. Every practice in the New Testament can also be used in “dark mode” but that does not mean the practice is “bad” or unscriptural. It is just misused. In my many years working in a plurality, I would still not change it. If there is a basic committment, maturity, understanding, and surrender to God, that mode of leadership is pretty powerful and amazing!



Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.

[Genevieve]

Samuel,
I appreciate your mellowing voice in this blog, and I think it’s true that the leaders deal with the same shortcomings as those in other denominations–and that they’re doing their best.

But, like Bertrand said, “It’s different in there” either because of their history, beliefs, practices, traditions, or something else entirely.

Part of my fascination with GCM is that they don’t see any of their differences from other churches as a potentially unhealthy thing but only see their difference as a sign of their zeal. They really WANT to be different.

I’ve heard a pastor rejoice at being “persecuted” by being labeled a cult. This is no ordinary church, though some of the causes of their weaknesses may be universal.

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

Genevieve,



I don’t think that GC is unique in what you are describing. I know of other denominations, especially the young ones or those since the 60’s that have some history of the same. This is a sign of inbreddedness (sp?).



I can think of the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement with their Tennessee Temple, Bob Jones, Hyles Anderson College, Sword of the Lord crowd. They make GC look like angels.



I can think of Grace Brethren folks who have been smug and somewhat elitist about their Triune Emersion Baptism beliefs.



I can think about Mennonites who have pride in their separation from the world by the way they dress and other things they do.



I can think of the Seventh Day Adventists who think that they are “healthier” because they follow Old Testament dietary laws.



I can think of some brothers I know that are part of Messianic Congregations that are pretty dogmatic about their day of worship and the dietary laws.



Then there are guys I’ve known from the Friends’ Church (Quakers) that think they have the corner because they are pacifists and are given to contemplation.



I’ve known some hard core pastors who would curse (practically) if you espoused in alternative translations from the family of manuscripts that birthed the KJV translation such as the NIV, NASB, etc.



We could go on.



I don’t think that GC is any different. What is different is the specific “toe hold” of doctrine where they can make themselves distinct from others and therefore “better.”



Sheeeesh, I’ve meet homeschoolers that resemble the same. There’s the “little house on the prairie” look alikes, there are the Francis Shaeffer types, there are the Yuppie types, and then you have also the separatists associated with Bill Gothard.



Talking about Bill Gothard, that is one scary guy for me. Does he have a good heart? Yes. Has he contributed a lot to Christendom. Of course. Does he have dysfunctions and issues? Oh yes, very much. I would recommend he get married so he can become normal. Hahaha…



I guess you get the point by now…



GC is no different. It only appears to be so if we only know GC.



Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.

[Anonymous]

I feel like this sort of “list of lots of other bad/worse churches” is the red herring argument mamad warned of. GCM has serious problems. How they compare to other churches does not matter, because they are GCM’s problems. Problems -it- has admitted to having at one point, problems it is now refusing to acknowledge and fix, and problems which will remain unchanged until somebody addresses them. Thus websites like this.

There are healthy Christian churches out there, and churches that aren’t should be exposed. It’s as simple as that. I know that at one point during my time with GCM I surfed the web in search of information on GCM, suspecting it may have had serious problems or even be a cult. When I found nothing (I consider myself a very good google-searcher, but back then I had no idea GCM used to be known as GCI and thus found nothing) I decided that my imagination had just gotten away with me. If only I had known then, and if only websites like this had existed back then. I was prepared to leave GCM, but I needed to know I wasn’t the only one experiencing the kinds of problems I was having. GCM is, after all, very good at making you feel like your problems with them are the result of your lack of faith.

The bottom line, my point, is that “every church has problems” does not excuse GCM. Sure all churches have problems, but GCM’s biggest “problems” are the result of doctrinal errors and problems in the very culture of the movement. These things need to be brought out into the light and exposed. I now thoroughly research every church I plan to attend before I do, thanks to my past naiveness regarding GCM, and generally find quite a bit of information on every group I look up. GCM on the other hand only recently began to be exposed on the internet. About time, methinks.

[another anonymous]

Amen, Anonymous!



Here’s another way of looking at those red herrings. All those other groups are weird on the outside and inside. In other words, you know what you are getting into.



GCM is just weird on the inside.

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

Anonymous,



I thoroughly understand how you feel. I was mistreated, trashed, ignored, shamed, emasculated, etc. I repented of having participated in doing these very things to others and asked for forgiveness from them.



At the same time, with all due respect, I have had to be careful that in my hurt I am wanting to punish people (GCM/GCAC) included because my ego wants to be the victim and get that juice supplied to it via the satisfaction of revenge.



Sure GCM/GCAC has serious problems. How it is exposed… we need to be careful of our motives and how we do it. Same goes for any other group or church or leader. I sense very deep hurt in you. I don’t want to minimize your pain but I almost feel like you want to whip these guys. That could be taking revenge that belongs to God who disciplines and enlightens in His best way. Remember, you “ain’t so lovely yourself” and yet God cuts you and me slack.



I’m not trying to be critical of you. I’m just trying to be proactive.



Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.

[another googling anonymous]

Dr. Lopez,

I remember several years ago when I,like anonymous, was googling GC, I came across something about you on an athiest/Christian discussion group.



They claimed that they reported some unkind things that you had said… I can’t remember now what it was … to GC to try to get you fired. They said that GC prohibited you from any further talks on this particular athiest board.



Did that contribute in any way to you leaving? Or was that just something they made up? I have been wondering now for several years. I hope this question isn’t too personal!

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

another anonymous said…



” Amen, Anonymous!



Here’s another way of looking at those red herrings. All those other groups are weird on the outside and inside. In other words, you know what you are getting into.



GCM is just weird on the inside. ”



With all due respect, GCM is not unique in this. I can remember in my Grace Brethren days, my Baptist days, my Navigators days, my Assembly Brethren days, etc. that there are things and weaknesses (with lots of ego to spare) that did not come to the surface until you go deeper with each of these groups.



GCM/GCAC is dysfunctional but not evil almost implied. If that is not what was meant then sorry for the misunderstanding. It just sounds and smells that this might be the implication that deliberate deception is going on. Not true. I’ve been on the inside and that just was not the case.



Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

another googling anonymous said…



“Dr. Lopez,

I remember several years ago when I,like anonymous, was googling GC, I came across something about you on an athiest/Christian discussion group.



They claimed that they reported some unkind things that you had said… I can’t remember now what it was … to GC to try to get you fired. They said that GC prohibited you from any further talks on this particular athiest board.



Did that contribute in any way to you leaving? Or was that just something they made up? I have been wondering now for several years. I hope this question isn’t too personal!”



It was one component to my demise. An atheist that hated Christians and that hated me for exposing his weak arguments, decided to package selective information about me where he did not provide adequate contexts of my statements. He sent that package to the National Leadership. They did not investigate and took the atheist’s own word as truth (despite his deceptive practices and lies about me). The proceeded to discipline me by a very shameful process I call “emasculation.” My heart was broken that they would not come to my defense and practice what they practice in cases of slander. They did not. The axe came down partially. Eventually other things came to play and they let me be thrown overboard. I confronted this action. Some contrition was demonstrated but they did not have the maturity (due to developmental deficits and dysfunctions in their own lives, as we all have) to deliver and their love was shallow. Hence I ended up ignored, shamed via silence, slotted, and labeled.



I have no resentment or bitterness any longer. I love them and wish them the best. They are good dysfunctional guys that are trying to love Jesus the best they can. Sure folks are getting hurt but so are folks in many of the churches I know, … to some degree.



Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.

[puff of purple smoke]

Debate about friendship in GC continued here:

http://gcmwarning.com:8080/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=41

[Massman]

Hi Dr. Lopez, how are you?

Wow.  You taught a marriage conference years ago with Dave Bovenmeyer as a partner.  I still remember some of the points of the teaching.

I have read some of your blogs.  Looks like you have quite a history here.

Where are you fellowshiping these days.  I remember a book you published I used to use w new believers.  I think it was called answers for life.

Do you see yourself Pastoring again?