Solid Rock, Columbus, 1977-78

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[Huldah]

I'd like to say Hello to everyone. I was a student at Ohio State from 75-78. During that time I had several encounters with members of Solid Rock, before finally becoming a member myself in the fall of '77. I was there during the era of headscarves, sisters cooking dinner for the brothers, extreme suspicion of formal education, and veneration of people like Jim McKotter and Herschel Martindale, both of whose tapes were passed around from member to member and listened to avidly. When I first joined Solid Rock,  I lived in the OSU dorms, but in Winter Qtr 78 I moved into an off-campus house with four other sisters from the group. One of my housemates was the sister of John Hopler (who was a deacon in South Fellowship at that time).

To be honest, I don't know exactly how much to say right now. I could write on and on, at length, about both the good times and the bad times. At this point in my life, the good times are easier to remember. Remembering the bad times takes more effort, and gives less satisfaction.

However, back then, the bad times became very bad, indeed. I was constantly being rebuked for innocent or very minor things, especially by one of the sisters I lived with (not John Hopler's sister, I hasten to add). When I sought counseling about this problem, I was told that it was my fault (even though the brother counseling me didn't ask for any details!). I also struggled with the repressive and narrow expectations the group imposed on women. I was subtly made to feel inadequate and guilty for staying in school. Even the amount of food we sisters ate was monitored by other sistes, so as to prevent anyone from committing gluttony. I became more and more alienated from my old friends, my parents, and even from myself. Not to mention feeling completely alienated from God.

On one occasion, I was "interviewed" by a couple of deacons because another sister had been overheard complaining to me about some decision made by the elders. The deacons wanted to know "how that sister had affected my thinking." I told them that I was really confused by the whole interview (I think I told them I felt like I was in the Spanish Inquisition). I thought it was over when they finally left, but a day or two later, the sister who had made the remarks came up to me with an expression of deep shame on her face and apologized for confusing me. The deacons had totally misinterpreted my remarks to their own advantage, and had forced this innocent sister to come and beg forgiveness for simply expressing a personal opinion.

Maybe I'll go into more detail about other abuses someday. For now, I'll sum up by saying that I finally broke down and decided I couldn't go on. I left Columbus to get away from the constant pain and criticism, but that also meant walking away from a nearly-complete college degree, my professional goals, and my lifelong dreams.

Even though I was desperate to escape, I still thought that everything was all my fault. I felt like I was running away from God, sinning almost beyond the point of grace. Nor could I turn to other Christians for help. For one thing, they wouldn't have understood. For another, where do you turn, when you've just turned your back on "God's best"? Besides, I was worried about the effect my sinfulness would have on other believers I if I confided in them. After all, I was a rebel against the authority God had put over me. I was a bad example. I was spiritually radioactive, sure to contaminate other believers if I opened up to them.

I was afraid I'd give in and go back to Solid Rock, so I did the one thing that made it impossible: I joined the Army. Now, that was going from the frying pan into the fire, in many ways. It was tough, but at least no one in the Army cared what I thought as long as I followed the rules outwardly. There were no inquisition-like efforts to make sure my most inward thoughts and feelings measured up to someone else's standards.

It was all a long time ago, and I don't dwell on it often. I know now that I was the victim, not the perpetrator, and that gives me some peace. It has taken me a very long time to rebuild the healthy emotional and psychological boundaries that were torn down at Solid Rock. There's no way even to estimate the financial cost of abandoning my education and accepting the idea that I shouldn't aspire to a worthwhile career.

I noticed a couple of other threads where people were asking about what really happened in the church back in the 70's. (I.e., were women really required to wear headcoverings back then? Answer: headcoverings were required if you planned to pray aloud during the Friday evening praise service. If you weren't planning to pray aloud, technically you didn't need one, but in reality, a woman wouldn't have sat there with her head uncovered any more than she'd have shown up to prayer meeting in a swimsuit and snorkel.) If there are any other questions about that era that I can answer, I'd be happy to do so.

[maranatha]

Welcome, Huldah, and thanks for sharing~

[EverAStudent]

Welcome to the forum!  Whatever else you may think of yourself given your experiences, know this, you had Spirit-guided discernment sufficient to see the truth and the Christ-provided strength to act on it.  This is cause for celebration!

Again, welcome to the forum!

[Truth Lover]

Welcome and warm greetings to you, Huldah!  

We are glad you found us and thanks too for sharing your story.  You will probably find many of our stories here are similar, though not exactly alike.  But we do all come from the GC thinking, and yes there was some good and some was very harmful.  Please take time to read some of our stories to get to know us better.  And know also that God will continue to do His work in and through all who truly who love Him.

May the Lord bless and lead and protect you and your family ~ for His greatest glory and your greatest good!

P.S.  I remember head coverings too.  But they were beginning to be phased out when I arrived in the mid 80's.  The reproving thing was beginning to lessen a little for the sake of the "seeker services" too.  But I definitely remember ones being talked to if they disagreed with what the elders said or wanted to do.  Obviously we left because we disagreed with the direction we were heading, the difference being my husband was one of the elders.  (you can read my post at Hellos & Testimonies if you want).  We are very happy now and he is teaching God's Word faithfully, by His grace!  All glory to Him!

[Huldah]

Thank you for the welcome, Maranatha, EverAStudent, and Truth Lover. It was a relief finally to share with people who understand, after so many years. EverAStudent, thanks for the perspective that it was the Holy Spirit that led me out of Solid Rock.

Please understand that I don't hate anyone at GCx. I consider them to be brothers and sisters in Christ (albeit, estranged brothers and sisters). Even in the midst of all the craziness, there were many kindnesses and acts of encouragement that various members showed to me. Still, I believe the leadership owes a sincere apology to many former members. The Weaknesses Paper was a very feeble and inadequate effort, given all the harm they did to so many.

Oh, and I'd like to add that I'm now attending a very good church. I also went back to school eventually and got my degree, although it was at a different school, in a different major, and about 20 years after I had originally expected.

There is life after GCx.

[EverAStudent]

Oh, and I'd like to add that I'm now attending a very good church. I also went back to school eventually and got my degree, although it was at a different school, in a different major, and about 20 years after I had originally expected.

Wonderful!!!!  Better late than never.  Did you know that God did not call Moses into Egypt to free the Hebrews until he was 80 years old?  Age does not trump God's leading.  So long as we live, we are used by God for His purposes, whether in ministry, college, or work.  Press on!

[exshep]

P.S.  I remember head coverings too.  But they were beginning to be phased out when I arrived in the mid 80's.  The reproving thing was beginning to lessen a little for the sake of the "seeker services" too.  But I definitely remember ones being talked to if they disagreed with what the elders said or wanted to do.

That makes sense with the seeker services.  

The head coverings are still around.  I saw at Hope Fellowship Denton in 2006.  My understanding it was mostly optional

[steelgirl]

I was in GCM 4-9 yrs ago.  I recall my discipler who does not have a college degree wondering why I had a liberal arts degree because I was not working.  That period of my life, might not have been the best time looking back.  Professionally I was really going through Hell.

[Linda]

I recall my discipler who does not have a college degree wondering why I had a liberal arts degree because I was not working.

I've seen this term "discipler" used many times on this forum. That was not a term that was used at our church so I'm wondering if this was a term that was used a lot. Did everyone have a "discipler"? Were you assigned a discipler? What did a "discipler" do?

Sounds a little bit like the "minder" Scientologists have. Very odd.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I heard the term "discipler" a lot in Campus Crusade for Christ.  But I also heard it in GC.  

Looking back now, it seems kooky to me too!

[EverAStudent]

I've seen this term "discipler" used many times on this forum. That was not a term that was used at our church so I'm wondering if this was a term that was used a lot. Did everyone have a "discipler"? Were you assigned a discipler? What did a "discipler" do?

Linda, if you don't object, I can give you one perspective from the 1980's.  "Discipling" was used as a verb and a noun in those days.  Ideally, a discipler was one who took an immature Christian under their wing as their personal trainee or apprentice (the discipler acting as the mentor).  

This personal approach was good in that it really did give young believers someone to go to for guidance.  At its best, it included learning the basic disciplines of the faith (prayer, Bible study, evangelism...).  A questionable aspect of the program was the teaching that everyone (except the elders) was said to need "discipling."  Again, in the ideal, that may have some merit.

In practice, it was not always so ideal.  Often mature believers would be paired up (by the elders) to be "discipled" by less mature Christians who had a more prestigious social standing in the church.  To be a "discipler" became a mark of rank as someone who was making a name for themself in GCx, a facet of the program which immediately erroded much of the value of the concept.  The trainee became known as "the disciple of brother Joe."

Much of the discpling had little to do with actually learning to study the Bible, but consisted largely of mechanically progressing through canned program materials from Navigators, etc.  Once assigned to a discipler, one became "committed" to him/her, and had to be accountable to that individual for many aspects of spirituality that belong to Christ alone.

The discipling program lost sight of this one fundamental: we are Christ's disciples, first and always.  

A last failure of the program was to understand that training another believer should involve genuine friendship (and all that friendship can encompass).  Since discipling was simply a mandatory program, with one believer being artificially labeled as immature to a superior individual, often those friendships never materialized.

Since those days, I do not use the term "discipling" any more.  Instead, I prefer to simply have Bible studies with my friends.  In our church a voluntary "tutoring" program exists for those who determine for themselves they have a need and a desire to develop specific spiritual skills--the entire program is confidential.

[puff of purple smoke]

I've seen this term "discipler" used many times on this forum. That was not a term that was used at our church so I'm wondering if this was a term that was used a lot. Did everyone have a "discipler"? Were you assigned a discipler? What did a "discipler" do?

Sounds a little bit like the "minder" Scientologists have. Very odd.

At my church you were assigned a discipler, yes. Often people didn't know that the person taking great interest in them was actually assigned to disciple them. Pretty much everything EverAStudent said about 1980's GC applies to the GC I knew only a few years ago.

[Linda]

EAS said:

Often mature believers would be paired up (by the elders) to be "discipled" by less mature Christians who had a more prestigious social standing in the church. To be a "discipler" became a mark of rank as someone who was making a name for themself in GCx, a facet of the program which immediately eroded much of the value of the concept. The trainee became known as "the disciple of brother Joe."

Wow. I had no idea.


Puff said:

At my church you were assigned a discipler, yes. Often people didn't know that the person taking great interest in them was actually assigned to disciple them. Pretty much everything EverAStudent said about 1980's GC applies to the GC I knew only a few years ago.

Did the elders always assign the discipler? Is this still happening?

I'm sort of speechless and feel more misled than I ever have. I had absolutely no idea this was happening. What a fool I am.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Did disciplers exist in churches the same way they existed in the college groups?  In my GC church you were sort of an unspoken disciple of your small group leaders family.  You would share meals with them sometimes, go to their kids games with them, spend time with them... etc.  It was the way they showed you how a good GC family was supposed to operate.

It felt weird though... These were the people with whom you would share intimate details about your marriage, history, accountability, etc.  In my church you didn't really have a discipler by that name... you were just discipled as part of a small group leader's family almost.

Anyway, it was the same thing as being discipled, but it just wasn't called that.  It was usually called something like:

Building into someone's life
Investing into someone's life
Sharing your home/ family

I had know idea we were assigned until several years into it.  Then small groups were reassigned (again), but this time we were the ones in charge.  All of a sudden, these people we thought of as such close friends they were practically family no longer invited us over or ANYTHING!  They were just moving on to church plants, their new small group etc.  It was a very painful time.  We had no idea that all that time we were just projects to assimilate.  No idea!

[wastedyearsthere]

I remember a friend of mine being told by a GCC leader that they were spending too much time with me.  They were told that in uncertain terms that they didn't need to spend so much time with me (their good friend) in order to maintain our friendship.  Seems there was a certain allotted amount of time in their minds to spend with people that were outside their little church group.  Talk about viewing people as goals, projects.

I remember feeling dumped too -- when the small groups would switch around friends I thought were going to do anything for me were suddenly not interested in maintaining the friendship.  

I have to wonder if some of those relationships were orchestrated by the leaders since I was a newly saved Christian.

[theresearchpersona]

Yes their "descipling" continues: usually through small group leaders...often with people very near in age (vs. the word which commands the AGED women teach the younger women how to be wives and homemakers, and the AGED men teach the young men to be self-controlled/temperate...while doctrine is for teachers, true elders (those with the real qualifications), and personally rightly-dividing the truth).

I've been in really strange situations where people who held beliefs from their past Churches and which they brought-in to GC and were never checked for were put "over" me...often almost my age, and who would command my obedience at which point I would be speaking with them for hours and rebuking them for error, wrong authority, biblical disobedience, to which they might reply

"I must obey my leaders"

to which I would open scripture and counter them and command them to not disobey God whether or not leaders commanded obedience to themselves

...and often they'd shut-up and become very silent...and as we'd walk back they'd suddenly return to "well you going to do what I say" (paraphrasing and avoiding specifics for now). Err.

But imagine taking Christians who hardly know any doctrine, or discernment, only business-derived principles grounded in pragmatism and efficiency, and a whole lot of teaching from leaders who taught from their experience (which they'd decorate with the word) rather than from the Word (by which we ought to evaluate, using everything in-context, whether our "experiences" are real, truly from God, or just deceiving us), and placing those juveniles over another after making them think they're someone ahead, or more mature, or whatever, giving them a check-list (often copied from some other Church) of things they want to watch-out for (often to be done out-of-sight of the person who probably thinks that you talking to this "leader" is confidential: it's often really not), and then having them advise, teach, lead, meet with, etc. some poor sap who'll be made to do the same if they fit-the-bill satisfactorily?

I came to G.C. and asked about whether there were any older men who knew scripture who could be mentors...and got odd and confused looks from those around me who'd then say "that's what the descipleship teams are for"! Quite odd...especially as they'd often read and recommend materials which can't muster testing by scripture...but which I'd often hear "wow, there's so much truth in that". It was miserable.

[Huldah]

But imagine taking Christians who hardly know any doctrine, or discernment...and placing those juveniles over another after making them think they're someone ahead, or more mature, or whatever...

This was my experience, too.

There was something that I would call "The Look": an expression of worry, a tightening of the mouth and creasing of the forehead, that said (without actual words), "I'm really concerned about what you just said. It sounds to me like you're challenging the leadership and going off the deep end, spiritually." I'd get The Look whenever I tried to appeal to common sense in a way that crossed SR's "party line".

For example, the sisters were given a tape on Proverbs 31 to listen to. I forget who was speaking on the tape (all I remember is that it was one of the "celebs" of the movement) but he went through the whole chapter, elaborating on each verse, till he got to Verse 26: "She opens her mouth in wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." His comment was, "This is the first time she even  opens her mouth!" (Knowing what the expectations were for women in GCx, you'll all understand the implications of that.) Anyway, I remarked to some of the sisters, "But she was assigning tasks to her maidens, and she had to talk to do that. And she was buying stuff; in that culture, that would mean haggling for a bargain. She's been talking the whole time!"

None of the sisters said anything, but they all gave me The Look.

On another occasion, I was walking across campus with a young brother who was also a student at OSU. He started talking about how important it is to just submit and have "blind faith, you just gotta have blind faith." I said something like, "But should faith really be blind? Doesn't God want us to examine the evidence and know why we have faith?" Again, I got The Look.

One incident that really upset me was a very emotional (on my part) discussion with John Hopler on the role of women in the church. I was really struggling to make sense of SR's teachings. John was trying to get me to see why women shouldn't exercise authority in any situation except motherhood. At one point I asked him, "But what about Huldah?" (Huldah was an Old Testament prohetess who verified the authenticity of a rediscovered Book of the Law.) To my amazement, he had never heard of Huldah. I was blown away to think that he could claim to speak with authority on the role of women, when he so clearly hadn't bothered to even to find out everything the Bible said about it. After all, wasn't he a lawyer, trained to understood the critical importance of examining all the available evidence? It was just mind-boggling.

[puff of purple smoke]

Great post Huddah. I know exactly what you're talking about when you say "The Look."

[exshep]

I heard the term "discipler" a lot in Campus Crusade for Christ.  But I also heard it in GC.  

Looking back now, it seems kooky to me too!

It is big in the International Church of Christ.  Offhand I am surprised that ICC and GC never merged.  The issues are eerily similar

[steelgirl]

I've seen this term "discipler" used many times on this forum. That was not a term that was used at our church so I'm wondering if this was a term that was used a lot. Did everyone have a "discipler"? Were you assigned a discipler? What did a "discipler" do?

Sounds a little bit like the "minder" Scientologists have. Very odd.

At my church you were assigned a discipler, yes. Often people didn't know that the person taking great interest in them was actually assigned to disciple them. Pretty much everything EverAStudent said about 1980's GC applies to the GC I knew only a few years ago.

When were you in GC?