Timeline of Suzanne's story

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[DarthVader]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-aquilina-eyes-symbolic-hearing-more-abuse-survivors-n856416

Hey all,

On the link above, which is around Larry Nassar's trial, Suzanne van Dyck is quoted (follow the link if you'd like, here is the quote below):

"I will literally get on a plane with my mom, book a hotel, and I will be there," said Suzanne van Dyck, 51, an interior designer from the Minneapolis area who said she was abused three decades ago. "- The context is the Judge in the Larry Nassar trial is offering all victims of abuse anywhere a symbolic "day in court".

I have no desire to hurt anyone and don't want to take any position on anyone's truthfulness or innocence given I have no personal relationship of any kind with anyone involved, and my heart breaks for all of you.  I do want to explore Suzanne's statement and what it means for the various discussions people have been having - As I think the timeline is very different than has been supposed. I intend on saying "alleged abuse" everywhere below but if I miss one, please know I understand an allegation is only allegation unless it is proven true at some point.  This is all speculation, not facts.

1. I believe people have been assuming that the alleged abuse that was or wasn't discussed at the infamous meeting in 2001 with the van Dycks, Darlings, therapist and Mark Bowen happened to Suzanne around the time of the 2001 meeting, not years (13 to be precise) before the 2001 meeting - Suzanne, to my knowledge has never stated the dates the alleged abuse occurred (other than this NBC article for the first time today).

2. Based on her statement on the NBC website, the alleged abuse happened around 1988 "30 years ago" per the NBC article. The article states Suzanne is 51 so in 1988 Suzanne would have been 21.  I believe Mark D. would have been around 30.  This would have been almost pre-ECC days, when Evergreen was called "Great Commission International Church" and met in Regina Girl's High School.

3. This timeline e.g., alleged abuse occurring in 1988 or so may (or may not) explain some of the discrepancies people have been discussing - specifically, I don't know if the Darlings were in the same house in 1988 as they were in 2001, Jeromy would have been 6 in 1988 vs. 19 in 2001.  Much as been made of the working/non-working basement fireplace, but I am wondering if the facts around such fireplace would have been different in 1988 than they were in 2001, if people were thinking the alleged abuse and fireside discussions occurred in 2001 when it fact it might have been 1988.  Most people aren't in the same house over that long of a period and/or a fireplace that did't work in 2001 might have working just fine in 1988.

4. This timeline better fits the pattern (if there is one) of alleged victims A&C being college age vs. Suzanne being in her mid thirties in 2001, as she was 21 in 1988, around the same age (I'm guessing) as alleged victims A&C seemed to be at that stage of life based on what Suzanne has posted on FB, if they are, in fact truthful accounts of two different people.

5. This could also explain John van Dyck's behavior to some degree. I have no idea if he and Suzanne even knew each other in 1988 but it is possible the alleged abuse occurred before he even met Suzanne or was married to her in which case everyone's question about "where was John van Dyck" when all this was happening would be moot or at least understood differently if they weren't married/close or hadn't even met when Suzanne was 21 in 1988. John would potentially have been hearing about the alleged abuse years after the fact, instead of witnessing it - I have no idea how one would process hearing something like that (again, if it happened).

Again, all this is speculation. My only intent in posting this speculation was that my understanding of the timeline (and I think most peoples) was very different prior to what Suzanne posted on the NBC website.   My prayer is God's miraculous healing for everyone involved as the only thing that is clear is that all are hurting in the most painful way.

[HughHoney]

New information has come to light...

[Rypick]

In other words, the story changed again.

[Rypick]

By the way, I just registered, and had to agree to a set of rules.
This one caught my attention...

2. Be truthful. Do not post unfounded accusations directed towards any group, person, or poster here.

Is that one still valid?

[DarthVader]

I seem to have offended & if so, I apologize. It was not my intent but on this topic and website, maybe an impossible goal.  You seem to imply in your earlier post about the story changing that Suzanne originally stated one thing but is now stating another. I don't think that is fact-based, but if you have seen her provide different dates for the alleged abuse than in the NBC statement, I would humbly ask forgiveness.

[HughHoney]

By the way, I just registered, and had to agree to a set of rules.
This one caught my attention...

2. Be truthful. Do not post unfounded accusations directed towards any group, person, or poster here.

Is that one still valid?

Rypick not sure if you have been lurking or coming in without any context but it has been wild on this board all week! Sounds like the moderator may be AWOL on top of that! Hardly any of the accusations have been founded, a real mishmash. At this point it's hard to predict what will happen next!

[Rypick]

You did not offend. I apologize if you took my second reply, about the forum rules, to be directed at you. It was not. It just seems that there is a lot of accusation on this forum about Mark being a sexual predator, with no proof. It was a general remark, and should have been on a separate thread.

In regards to the story changing, it seems that every time someone challenges Suzanne's story, it gets tweaked or changed. When asked for proof, suddenly there were 7 or 8 other victims that have only reached out to her, and are too scared to reveal their identities. When Jeromy made it clear that Mark still has the infamous letter, and it does not discuss sexual abuse, suddenly there is a second letter, and that one discusses sexual abuse. Up until now, she has stated 17 years in relation to her story constantly. When holes are poked in that timeline, suddenly, it was 30 years ago. Maybe these tweaks are true, maybe not. It just makes me leery when a story seems to be made of rubber.

[DarthVader]

I'm glad I did not offend and appreciate the apology - it is accepted without reservation. I agree - this discussion is generally pretty ugly - of course the context is the website was established as a forum for those hurt by GCM churches in some way, but I wish people would remember there are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ on the other end of the keyboard every time they post, no matter their allegiance. 

[DarthVader]

Darthvader,

Actually, I started to think about it, and she really has not given any dates, or even a year that the allegations happened (unless this is something I have missed).  I thought this a little odd.  I also realized that neither victim stories give any concrete dates (not even a year again), except I do remember that one victim statement said a 5 year period. 

I was thinking that if someone suffered what they considered significant abuse, they would be quite clear on a time frame.  The only direct time frame  that has been mentioned is "17 years ago there was a meeting". 

Godtrumpsall, I agree - no dates (other than the 2001 meeting and now the "30 year" nbc post) have been shared by Suzanne or in either A or C's FB accounts posted by Suzanne.  I do think I was assuming (and I don't think I was alone) that she was alleging abuse relatively concurrent with the 2001 meeting, which seems now to be way off.  According to Suzanne, at least one person has submitted a statement to the ECC investigator - based on timing of the post, it would likely be victim C (as A had not been shared yet), but that is an assumption and guess. One presumes that the full statement submitted to the ECC investigator had dates or that the ECC investigator could ask the person when the events occurred.  I know it is best to just wait and let God reveal the truth. Easy to say - harder to live.

[jeromydaviddarling]

Sigh...

Guys, John and Suzanne WERE dating in 1988, married in I believe 1989 and had their first son Reese in 1992.

We moved into the house in 1986 AND NEVER REMODELED FOR THE NEXT 14 years. The fireplace basement was never used once the entire time that we lived there.

I've known John and Suzanne since BEFORE they were married. If you guys want questions on their history and on timelines, I pretty much have all the answers.

[HughHoney]

Basically the facts so far: (1) there was a significant meeting 17 years ago, (2) there was never a fire in that damn fireplace

[Rebel in a Good Way]

You know guys, the whole world does not revolve around Mark Darling.  Have you considered the possibility that a woman could have been abused more than once?

[Digital Lynch Mob]

Yes, she has made statements, or at least hinted to abuse while younger. Interesting to me that when making a statement about the timing of her alleged abuse, she chose a time frame for which Mark could not have been the abuser.

[DarthVader]

Why do you say that DLM? - I understand your advocacy and belief in Mark and respect it, but my understanding is Suzanne and Mark did know each other during this time-frame (1988 or so) which at least is a minimum requirement for indicating it could have happened.  Are there facts you are aware of that would support that statement?  Just knowing what I know (which isn't much) I find a 1988ish date more plausible than 2001 (if, in fact it happened at all, which many doubt).

[IloveJesusHowBoutYou]

She and John then asked Mark D. to marry them in 1989?

[Digital Lynch Mob]

I stand corrected Darth, they did know each other then. But it only makes the whole thing even more far fetched. How many people ask the person who sexually abused them to preside over their wedding. On and on the facts don't support either her actions or her story...which changes with the wind.

[freisetzen]

As if the news never misquoted anyone or made generalized statements?

[StillLearning]

What is sexual abuse, anyway?
Listen to this therapist's explanation (don't be put off by his mannerisms).
https://vimeo.com/240742119

This may give some understanding of why it is so hard to come forward about abuse:
1. It opens wounds.
2. The perpetrator is usually believed, rather than the one abused.

[GodisFaithful]

Helpful, Still Learning. So helpful

I watched the whole thing.

I am ashamed to say, terribly ashamed, that when my little sister came forward with her story of abuse, I didn't say anything but I did not back her up and support her either. I thought what happened to her was wrong, but I was self-righteous in thinking that surely she could have walked away, surely she knew better than to let him do those things even though she was a young girl (grade school or so.)  I thought it was partly her fault. I did not understand until I read a good book about it that helped me understand. I gave her the book, and she read it in one night, but I think she knew all of it. But it was from a Christian perspective, so my sister is missing the forgiveness part, which I don't know that you can do (??) if you don't know Jesus. I don't think I could. And she doesn't even consider forgiving her abuser and I have not felt the freedom to bring that up with her. She rejects Christianity because of what happened to her.  But I have been able, by the grace of God, to sit and hear her story face to face and cry with her and hug her and tell her this is a travesty, it stole her childhood, it stole something very precious from her.  She told me that I was the only one of the family that has done that, but maybe others have come forward to do that for her (I mean other family members), I don't know.  This abuser had multiple victims; it was thoroughly investigated and you can go online and find the findings on the organization's website that investigated it.  I hate to even talk about it, and my sister is writing a memoir that will talk about it and I am not sure I can read it.  It's my little sister. You end up wishing you could have somehow protected her.

I think that a lot of people are unfamiliar with the gradual "grooming" that is done is these cases, and because of the power differential it gets really weird.  It  is not the victim's fault, and I believe victims should be believed until proven otherwise. If you don't think so, at least watch the video.  All involved need support and help. Can you even imagine how scary it would be to come out with the story? I read that only in 2% of cases are the victims lying, and that sexual misconduct allegations are way under reported because in general the victim is not believed and is not treated with respect.

I am not pointing a finger here at what is happening at EC. I am not pointing fingers so please do not read that into this post. I am simply saying that many many people, and I was included in this, do not understand the dynamics of sexual abuse. 

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Godisfaithful, my heart aches for your sister and you.  I am a big sister too, and I can only imagine the regret and sorrow for not being what she needed at the time.  I could feel your lament and share it with you because I also used to participate in victim blaming and misunderstanding of how people deal with their victimization.  I'm glad she at least got justice for the wrongs done against her.

It sounds like you are loving her in the most appropriate way!   If people have ruined Jesus for her, there's not a real point in discussing forgiveness or trying to urge her to trust him.  People who represented him hurt her, other people who represented him revictimized and abandoned her, and quite honestly I think believers lose their write to shout "Jesus" at a certain point.  Not that you are doing that, I'm just saying that listening, crying, hugging, etc. is a great way to show her the good news of the gospel.  I'm guessing the gospel she heard was only good news for her perpetrator.

So sad and heavy, I am looking forward to the day when the church will lead the way in preventing abuse and caring for victims.  Jesus has so much to offer in that regard.