Why I feel the need to post here

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[Neverbeengcm]

I felt compelled to write this post because of the hurt these cults have caused to some of my loved ones. My wife was a former GC member. She was involved in the church in every way. The members of the cult were her only friends.  They were her support structure.  My wife and her children have been emotionally scarred by these people she trusted in so many ways.   It was not until she had children that she was able to see the light.  Her ex-husband was an Elder in a Great Commission Church. He would set up his kids for failure each day by creating "teaching situations" in which the obvious choice the kids would make in the situation would be the wrong one (in his view). Then, he would beat them until they stopped crying to get them to submit to his control. Fortunately, the instinct God gives a mother to protect her children was stronger than the control her ex-husband and the cult had over her.   She divorced her husband and every  one of her "friends" turned their back on her and her children in their greatest time of need.

Even after leaving the church years ago, she is still dealing with the hurt they have caused her and her children today.  It hurts me to see the pain this church has caused them.  In addition, my sister is in a cult-type religion similar to the great commission.  This church has taken the once outgoing, active, loving sister I knew away from me and my family and left a shell of a human being leaving her emotions to be controlled by her church. I want to encourage anyone I can to be strong and to not be afraid of these cult leaders.  They are not God.  God does not speak through them any more than the voice of God speaks through me or you. I do believe that God gave us a brain to use.  We can use it to help others, selfishly help ourselves or just go through life ignoring the wrongs we see.  I am strong enough to stand up for what I believe to be right.  

I love the serenity prayer:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

I know in my heart that Jesus did not intend for the church to become greater in importance than the emotions and the lives of its followers.  I will always try to do the things I believe to be right.  I pray that God helps me to live in a way that he intended.  I hope that we all can do the same.


God Bless

[Linda]

Thank you for posting this and for your boldness. God bless you and your family.

They are not God.  God does not speak through them any more than the voice of God speaks through me or you.

This seems like an obvious point, but not to GC leaders or those who sit at their feet. Thank you for stating it so clearly.

[healingmom]

He would set up his kids for failure each day by creating "teaching situations" in which the obvious choice the kids would make in the situation would be the wrong one (in his view).

I pray that these children receive healing as they grow into adulthood ... may God bring blessing and healing and light and life and goodness and FUN to their lives!! And may they be parents that lead their own children with wisdom and kindness and truth ... and love them from their hearts.

This is my prayer tonight.

(By the way, thanks for your post, my prayer above is for your kids and their kids' kids)

[lynne]

I became a member of GCC in 1974 at the age of 16. These people became my only friends and it seemed exciting.   As a naive teen ---a professional man in his 30's who was to be elected an elder became infatuated with me and tried striking up an affair saying he wished he had met me before his wife.  He wanted me to kiss him saying the saints in the Bible gave each other a holy kiss...( I would not) .When I finally told this to the elders they dealt with it...how!  They never told me for 35 years.  I was never asked how I was doing, never told what even what he said about it.  It just DISAPPEARED and he was not elected an elder .  As he , his wife and 7 children moved not long after and the marriage fell apart a timid teen was left feeling somehow responsible.   
I married and years of irreparable harm came to me and my husband and eventually our 6 children through the intimidation and partial judgments of a pastor with unprofessional advice and councilling.   As our family fell more and more apart we realized the harm.  We were always told if we were HUMBLE we would accept the advice.!
Our experiences included  betrayals, lies told to and about us from Elders/Pastors, deacons and members of note who were trying to cover their backsides when caught or challenged.  They supported a meddling woman in the church who mutinied several of our children.

I have seen office documents as recent as 2008 showing revisions to their church creeds to reflect what they used to promote and  how they have changed now to give a  better impression.The problem is that despite changing viewpoints...the same men are overseeing this organization since the 1970's and they have the same attitudes and methods.

 Now miles away, our family is re-uniting and healing.   I still cry and wonder how we allowed this.  When we moved the lies and unrest they fueled left us distrustful of any and everyone.  We had not a friend in the world save one  lovely Senior couple who have also left the GCC now. 

I was advised by family members, lawyers and friends to sue the church.  I could not for these reasons..
I believe God tells us not to take another Christian to court
I had once considered these people my friends
My family unit would have been harmed more by the stress   and
God who is faithful and just will deal with what happened and I trust Him to be fair.

[Huldah]

Hello, Lynne, and welcome to the forum. This is a place where other people can sympathize and empathize with everything you've been through.

As young as you were when the first incident happened, it's horrifying that no effort was made by the elders to help you or reassure you. And yet, how typical of the many stories here. The leadership has always seemed more concerned with the reputation of the organization than the wellbeing of the members.

I'm glad you're out. I hope you and your family continue to find healing. I look forward to reading more from you whenever you're ready.

[Huldah]

NeverbeenGCM, your wife's story is so sad. I left GC before the majority of members started marrying and having children, so I never witnessed the abusive parenting that came later. I blame a lot of it on the influence of writers like the Pearls and the Ezzos. Years after I left GC, I attended a church where the pastor was heavily influenced by the Ezzos. My kids still bear some of the emotional scars of that time, even though my husband and I were never as harsh as the elder you describe. How awful for your wife's kids. I hope they are doing better these days.

[tmd]

I have seen office documents as recent as 2008 showing revisions to their church creeds to reflect what they used to promote and  how they have changed now to give a  better impression.The problem is that despite changing viewpoints...the same men are overseeing this organization since the 1970's and they have the same attitudes and methods.

Thank you for sharing this. I agree completely. You can't put new wine into old wineskins (Matt 9:17).

I remember a conversation I had with John Hopler after I left the movement. We discussed the weakness letter GCx distributed (but which I never knew about when I was still a member of GCx). I made a similar statement to John, and quoted Matt 9:17. The bad doctrine wasn't the problem -- it was the symptom. The problem was the leaders and members (myself included) that were so willing to place themselves under the law in very self-destructive ways.

I was advised by family members, lawyers and friends to sue the church.  I could not for these reasons..
I believe God tells us not to take another Christian to court
I had once considered these people my friends
My family unit would have been harmed more by the stress ....

This is a very personal decision, of course. But I agree with your conclusion. A lawsuit may end up causing more harm to you and your loved ones.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I knew a father (a core member) in GC who gleefully stated how much he loved when his children disobeyed because it meant that he would have a chance to "train" them (spank them) again.  I was told by one mother that sometimes spanking children 100 times a day was what it took to raise great kids.  Because I too was raised in a pretty authoritarian home, I accepted this as truth (much to my shame).  Although I never even came close to the kind of discipline GC espoused or that I received consistently as a child,  I still believe that I went too far and in my situation, I can't help but wonder the harm that I personally caused.  People just do not understand how you can become a person like that if they didn't live it.  They don't understand the power of unquestioning obedience to authority, the power of a culture completely set up around this idea, and the power of isolating a person so much that they don't even have friends or neighbors to fall back on when they leave.  I left, friendless.  I remained friendless for a long while until a woman at my new church befriended me and took me under her wing, introducing me to all kinds of new friends.  We just moved recently, so again I am friendless, but my post GC friends STILL check on me, send me mail, text me, send us an occasional care package.  While my GC friends never did anything like that after we left.  I believe this shunning technique is repeated in GC family settings as well, with a few wonderful exceptions.  I think that some of the leaders have seen the harm that comes from these things, and I pray for healing within these families.  But even if healing in families and friendships were to occur, the incredible consequences of this are painful to those of us who thought we had made friends or belonged to families for life... Friends we might socialize with in retirement years, friends who might be at our kids' graduations, friends who might be if you got sick.  Unfortunately, this was not the case, and any contact that we have had further is often stilted and uncomfortable, the large elephant in the room being, "How in the world can you continue to attend this church with all that you know is wrong with it, and all the things that have been done to harm your relationships?"

[Outtathere]

I have been reading through many of the posts here and used some of my time yesterday (I was sick at home) to look at some of the latest Jim McCotter videos. What he is teaching now is so blatantly wrong and is a shallow and incorrect interpretation of God's authoritative and unchangeable word.

If the current leaders of GCx do indeed read these posts and truly wish to start bringing about change, I would suggest that a good first step would be to identify Jim McCotter as a heretic. He is teaching a false gospel that is tied strongly to outward works. Now, the obvious question is whether or not their theology would allow them to label him as a heretic. I think that would be a good question to ask them; if they see Jim McCotter's current and/or past teaching as against the gospel and therefore, as heresy. Also, if they don't, why don't they?

The reason I think they should take a stronger stance on McCotter is that, as this forum testifies, so many of his teachings have been imbedded in the culture of this movement. Authoritative and controlling parenting that crosses the line and abuses children and is behavior focused instead of grace centered is wrong. Inadequate training of shepherds and works based performance standards for leaders is wrong. Controlling life decisions (whom you should or shouldn't date or where you should or shouldn't move to and committing to a church for life) are wrong and unbiblical.

While I appreciate the desire to correct wrong doctrine (I read a statement on the GCC website), I don't think it goes far enough. The feeling I had after reading it was that these errors should be forgiven because they are mistakes that happened in the past. However, I don't think it corrected the wrong theology that could allow it to happen again. In fact, every fallacy that Great Commission is saying they are distancing themselves from seems to still be taking place.

[araignee19]

If the current leaders of GCx do indeed read these posts and truly wish to start bringing about change, I would suggest that a good first step would be to identify Jim McCotter as a heretic. He is teaching a false gospel that is tied strongly to outward works. Now, the obvious question is whether or not their theology would allow them to label him as a heretic. I think that would be a good question to ask them; if they see Jim McCotter's current and/or past teaching as against the gospel and therefore, as heresy. Also, if they don't, why don't they?

That is an interesting question. If they labeled him as a heretic, wouldn't that fall under the category of "gossip" and "disunity with brothers"? I do not believe this is true, but I think that might be what they believe. I know it was always seen as sinful to state the errors of others, because you were hurting their reputation and therefore their ability to share the gospel. Maybe they believe that even if he is wrong, God used him, and he is their brother, so they should not harm his reputation. Or maybe they really still think he is correct...?

[Linda]

I know it was always seen as sinful to state the errors of others, because you were hurting their reputation and therefore their ability to share the gospel.

Interesting that they don't seem to mind saying that posters on Internet forums warning people about the dangers of GC shepherding are wrong, detractors, or possibly working for Satan!

Also, Dennis Clark sits on the board. Dennis Clark co-authored the Leadership book. GC published the Leadership book. Even if McCotter is gone, they still haven't corrected anything that was taught in that book.

Agatha, your points on disciplining and lost friendships ring a bell with many, I am sure. You had the sensitivity to know some things were not right and tempered your actions with your children. I'm sorry for the conditional friendships. Only when you leave GC can you understand the conditional nature of the friendships. There is a deep sorrow that I still have and a sense of loss. GC is something to get over. For me, taking my children to a GC church was my biggest parenting mistake (to date).

[Huldah]

If the current leaders of GCx do indeed read these posts and truly wish to start bringing about change, I would suggest that a good first step would be to identify Jim McCotter as a heretic...Now, the obvious question is whether or not their theology would allow them to label him as a heretic.

There's also the question of whether they'd be undermining their own authority if they declared McKotter a heretic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't their "ordination" (such as it is) trace directly back to McKotter? Doesn't their authority derive from his supposed authority? If they declare him a heretic, then how do they prop up their own positions? Doesn't the whole house of cards stand or fall on McKotter?

[EverAStudent]

As I understand it (assuming my memory is correct in this matter), McCotter and Clark ordained ("recognized" as pastors) each other.  From there, they ordained ("recognized") all the other pastor/elders that followed after them. 

Few people will get excited about the credentials of the people who ordained a pastor some 20 or 30 years ago.  Ordination simply does not carry the prestige or weight it once carried.  In the state in which I live any local body of organized believers can ordain their own pastors. 

So, I would expect exactly nothing to happen to the present pastors if they admit that the self-ordained pastor who long ago ordained them was now declared a heretic.  Exactly nothing.

[Janet Easson Martin]

I like what Adrian Rodgers says about spiritual authority. 

"God does not give kingdom authority to rebels." 

And false teachers would definitely qualify as rebels. 

[Linda]

I often ask myself why I post here. I think the answer is complicated. Certainly one reason is to remind myself of the realities of what this group teaches and practices. Time has a tendency to blur things and I can easily forget just how bad the basic GC philosophy is (man centered, not God centered).

I think the main reason I post on this site, though, is to accomplish what the site is all about: warning others. There is something very dark, dare I say demonic, happening. Families are being separated, men are being elevated and thus God is being diminished and the Lordship of Christ denied, people are being shunned and judged who point this out, other churches/denominations are being publicly criticized, sin is being covered-up.

I post by name and know many GC elders and their families who I still consider friends are appalled by what I do. We are the people they talked about when they said things like, "You can't believe what others are saying about us," and "Friends will betray you." However, because I post by name and am vocal about what GC teaches and somewhat familiar with their history and theology (which they have never retracted) people do know where to find me when their life or their children's lives fall apart and when that happens, my heart breaks for them. It's happened in a big way in the last two months. I am truly sick about it. Another family hurt deeply by this group.

I truly wish I had never heard of GC.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I wish I had never heard of it either.  .