Your Journey?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[knit_in_no_more]

You used to be in a war.  You were on the front lines in the battle. You were a soldier in training, with loads of zeal and a lot of conference boot camp under your belt.  You were well trained, and it showed.  Everything about you indicated that you were in God’s Army.  

On long weekends in crowded gymnasiums, you stand by your comrades in Christ singing over and over, "Every Nation in Our Generation" until you are blue in the face.  You make sacrifices that inside you don’t feel right with, they don’t come from your heart, but you do them anyway because you don’t want to risk looking immature, and everyone else is doing them, or it’s what the people over you have determined is best for your life.  There is a ladder you are told you must climb, a level of spirituality you must obtain, and you are trying so hard to be like the people you look up to.  And not only that, but there is a race to the top of the ladder.  It’s you against your fellow brothers and sisters to see who can reach spiritual maturity first.  But you begin to notice that the spiritual maturity ruler isn’t really about “maturity” as you thought you knew it.  It’s about your “teachability”, how willing you are listen and agree with and “run with” what the people over you are telling you.  

And one day you come to the realization that you’ve sacrificed too much of yourself for the cause that you so believe in.  You ask yourself if certain things you did like cut off all your former friends, and put your biological family on the back burner of your life were necessary, or even wise.  It begins to tear away at the foundation of your faith, because if this one idea that you believed in might not be true, then maybe this other idea isn’t true either.  You begin to notice holes in what you thought was solid fabric and you cannot piece it together in your mind.  You are getting this vague feeling that some how you have been duped in some way.  In an attempt to be “open” you take your thoughts and feelings to the higher-ups, but you realize right away that you’re not getting the reception you thought you would get.   You realize they are rubber and you are glue and what you’re saying is bouncing right off them and sticking to you.

You stick around because you said long ago that you would.  “Some of you will leave,” they used to say to the group, and you thought, “Not me, I never will, I’m a lifer.”  Then the thing that you thought would never happen does.  You make the choice to leave your friends and your life, as you know it behind.

Now even though you don’t believe in it, you find yourself in a kind of spiritual purgatory, some halfway Christian misfit that can’t seem to fit in anywhere.  You go to some different churches, but the people seem so “lukewarm” and lackadaisical about their faith, and you get so weary of trying to figure out the balance between “on fire” for God and “lukewarm”—nothing feels quite right.  So eventually, even though you love the Lord with all your heart, you just give up trying to feel comfortable among any of his people.  You stop going to church altogether.

You cannot figure out why it hurts to read your bible.  You love the Word, you love the Lord!  Why do you feel this way?  What used to bring such joy now just turns your stomach.  You cannot understand why this is, and as much as you try to find that joy in the Lord again, it feels fake, phony or something.  You pray, “Lord, take this away, please!” and He answers, “I’m here.  Just wait.”  So you wait.

Years have gone by.  You’ve carried on your life as most people do.  You have kids and jobs and school and everything else, but inside you have had something spiritually growing.  By all outward appearances, you’re nobody in the body of Christ, but inside He has worked on your heart; you’re beginning to feel more comfortable with your old spiritual wounds.  Your personal reliance on Him has grown, not by memorizing verses having “quiet times” or anything else.  It's just been God working on you from the inside. You begin to feel little spiritual nudges here and there.  For the first time it seems you are actually hearing Him deep inside somewhere, guiding you.  You feel as though you are about to begin a new journey of some kind, with Him, and for the first time in a long time it feels right and genuine, not forced. There’s no set agenda—no ladder to climb and no world to reach, there’s actually nothing for you to do at all, just LISTEN and wait for Him to guide you.  And you do, looking forward to where your adventure with Him might lead.

------------------------

Well, perhaps this wasn't exactly YOUR journey, but it was mine.  I am an ex-OH GCM'er from the 80's who stumbled across this website.  I had no idea that so many others were also troubled by experiences in the church.  May we all find peace.

[EverAStudent]

Welcome to the forum, a surely bitter sweet event every time it happens.  Sweet to know your experience is shared.  Bitter that a forum like this must exist at all.

Thank you for sharing your story.  Everyone has a slightly different account, but the core elements certainly sound familiar.  

I particularly appreciate your questioning of what constitutes maturity.  And it surely is NOT measured in quiet times.  Funny thing, Paul told the Ephesians that maturity was observable by how well the mature person can withstand every wind of doctrine.  Elsewhere he indicates it is also the degree to which we need not impose false measures grounded in legalism.  Sweet!

[aconcernedmom]

I am new here tonight.  My son left GCM two years ago (thankfully).  I was so worried that he has or had lost his faith in God until I read what you posted.  I feel like God was saying, "Trust me" when I read your last paragraph.  Your entire post helped me understand my son even more.  I have never asked him for details about what he went through because as I did my research it seemed like asking him what he went through would make things worse for him.  He just finished college and has moved out of state.  Do you think this will help with his healing?  Thank you again for posting.  It helped more than words can say.

[Linda]

Knit in no more and aconcernedmom, welcome and I'm sorry for the difficulties brought upon you by GCx.

Ever a student, thanks for referring to the "every wind of doctrine" reference.

It reminded me of some verses in Romans 10 that just jumped out at me a few months back. The idea that someone can have a "zeal for God" and not be saved had never occurred to me, but Paul says plainly in verse 1 of Romans 10 that it is his heart's desire and prayer that they may be saved. Amazing, isn't it?

Brothers,  my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Here are the verses in Ephesians that EAS mentioned.

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,  the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

[lone gone]

Welcome Knit in no more.

I immediately had an emotional response when seeing your screen name....

"Knit In"  was bandied about so much in the Ames church..... and getting out was like untangling yourself from a gordian knot.

I'd like to comment on the "maturity" topic.

Maturity is not the ability to withstand every wind of doctrine. If that were the case, then the Ephesians  wouldn't have responded to Paul when he approached them. They would have rebuffed him as a crack-pot and a heretic.

Maturity is the ability to calmly and patiently use wisdom to gain understanding as you journey towards the fullness of the truth. Doctrine is seen as a short cut to maturity..... but it isn't. Just believing right and skipping the growth process is like declaring a teenager to be an mature adult and able to vote because they have reached a certain height and can recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

God's word talks about those who are "learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth"   as well as having a "zeal without knowledge".

May the Lord deliver us from settling for mere Knowledge as opposed to the "wisdom from above" which is peaceable, gentle, reasonable, and full of good fruits.

[EverAStudent]

Maturity is not the ability to withstand every wind of doctrine. If that were the case, then the Ephesians wouldn't have responded to Paul when he approached them. They would have rebuffed him as a crack-pot and a heretic.

Maturity is the ability to calmly and patiently use wisdom to gain understanding as you journey towards the fullness of the truth. Doctrine is seen as a short cut to maturity..... but it isn't. Just believing right and skipping the growth process is like declaring a teenager to be an mature adult and able to vote because they have reached a certain height and can recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

God's word talks about those who are "learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth" as well as having a "zeal without knowledge".

As noted in the quote, maturity is not fully defined by the ability to resist being "tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine."  Yet, neither is maturity less than that.  

for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man , to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine , by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, (Ephesians 4:12-15)

The result of becoming "a mature man" is not being carried about by false doctrine, trickery, craftiness, and deceitful scheming but rather speaking truth and growing up.  

If we do not yet have the ability to identify and resist bad doctrine, then we have not attained the type of maturity that allows us to "grow up in all aspects into Christ."  Sound doctrine is never called a bad or undesirable goal in the Bible, and it takes hard work and much faith to develop.  It is one measure of maturity.

Loner, thank you for pointing out that maturity also requires growth along with good doctrine.  I am bit concerned that you think that somehow the passage that uses the phrase "learning but never coming to the truth" in any way refers to Christ's believers, or worse, believers seeking to know doctrine.  Here is the verse:

For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.
(2 Timothy 3:6-8)

Those who are "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" are the unsaved who "reject" the faith, "oppose the truth," and take captive those who are too immature to know better, luring them away with sins and unsavory impulses.  

By contrast, those of us who are Christians and are maturing (not that anyone is ever fully mature) will take the hard road of diligently studying the Word as workmen, who are seeking not to be ashamed in our handling of the Word, for some handle it accurately, others not (2 Timothy 2:15).

Blessings to you loner on your journey.

[lone gone]

oh but I DO think that the passage while being specifically about WOMEN, can also be about anyone INCLUDING believers.  In fact I do think that the passage speaks about immature female believers in Christ that are deceived by unscrupulous teachers with bad motives.

If you get too strict in your application of scripture, you lose the principle God is trying to teach.

"Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies."  This we can agree applies to believers.

Love is the goal of our instruction, not knowledge. Love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith. Learning how to love is more important than being able to recite all the knowledge about God in the world. ( "I can know all things, but if I have not love, it is nothing".

Members and leaders of GC church insist that they are mature or approaching maturity and that they can teach us everything about anything.

True maturity knows that "knowing everything isn't enough and Not knowing everything can be enough."

Better to have an incomplete but firmly held "something", than to constantly be learning something new and not holding to what you learned previously.  

The older I get, the more I find that the less I know, the better off I am.

[knit_in_no_more]

Thanks to all who posted a reply to my story.  About the maturity issue, I like what Larry Pile said in his "Statement" (sorry, can't link, but you can google it) about the hot house tomatoes being forced to grow.  That is exactly how I felt in GCx.  I cannot quote scripture, but I know that it is God that causes any growth in me, not me trying to squeeze it out.  All I've got to do is make sure the soil of my heart is ready and waiting.

[EverAStudent]

Maturity is not the ability to withstand every wind of doctrine. If that were the case, then the Ephesians wouldn't have responded to Paul when he approached them. They would have rebuffed him as a crack-pot and a heretic.
Maturity is the ability to calmly and patiently use wisdom to gain understanding as you journey towards the fullness of the truth. Doctrine is seen as a short cut to maturity..... but it isn't.
...
"Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies."

First, I am sorry to all that what I had intended as encouragement from the Word, and reinforcement of what was written by knit-in-no-more regarding maturity not being measured in quantity of quiet times, was taken as something controversial.  I did not ever foresee that Paul's definition of a mature Christian (Ephesians 4:12-15) as one who could withstand being blown about by every errant wind of doctrine would excite so strong a negative response from the community.

It does break my heart to see how involvement in GCI/GCM has seeminly biased some against the study of the Bible and have made outcasts of those who make the attempt to discern sound doctrine from out of those Bible studies.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine  
(2 Timothy 4:3a)

Is this perhaps symptomatic of another of the less obvious damages that GCx has brought about, that today, this very day, is literally the day foretold by Paul to Timothy, when sound doctrine is not endured, but even the word doctrine itself is no longer to be tolerated?

I am unable to abandon my love for the truth of the Word (and all the doctrines it contains) as the utterances of the God I worship.  Indeed, how can one love God without having knowledge of Him from His Word?  How can one know God and not love His words?  How can one love God and not love His sound doctrines?  Therefore, I think it best if I leave this dialogue and comment no more on the matter.

[lone gone]

Ever a student... there is no need to leave or stop commenting. I am only coming at the position you take from a different perspective. I too love to know God, and that is the God who revealed Himself in his Word. I am comforted by God's words to me and all believers.

What I am concerned with is the over-emphasis that some place on "the Word".  One old pastor of mine once commented that he was worried that some people were not Christians, but "Biblicians". They worshiped a book, or mere words, and not the God behind the words. They thought that if they "knew" doctrine and could recite all the scriptures, and had a depth of knowledge about arcane and minute details that they would be secure in their salvation.

Simple logic will can illuminate us to some basic facts.

Before Scripture was written down, there were believers. Before the Canon of Scripture was finally decided in the 3rd century, there were believers.There are believers who cannot read. There are believers whose language does not have a written Bible.

To appeal to verses as proof and to make points that are so easily countered with the gray matter God gave each one of us inside our heads
is not the only way to convey the truth that God would have us hold to.

GC and all other extremist belief systems exist because they promote closed mindedness. Simply disputing about words will not convict anyone whose mind is closed. People who cannot live with uncertainty and incompleteness can be very miserable in this life.

My prayer is that you never give up seeking

[lone gone]

Oh, I will add this one thing.

I sincerely believe that many of us here, myself included, who have come out of GC exhibit a behavior called "Oppositional Defiance".   We resist any kind of authority and have a hard time trusting others not to dominate us.

Dogmatic insistence that a position is "right" or "correct" or "orthodox" will trigger this as this is the type of thing that got us into the cult or authoritarion group in the first place.

[Linda]

What I am concerned with is the over-emphasis that some place on "the Word"

.
I don't think it is possible to put too much emphasis on the Word.

Obviously, people can misquote it, and misinterpret it, and take it out of context to support unbiblical things. It is the standard I use to measure the words of men and I believe the Holy Spirit is able to guide us into the Truth of it. One thing my GC experience did for me was to draw me back to the Word and test things--which I should have been doing in the first place.

Everastudent, I liked your winds of doctrine reminder and found it helpful and encouraging.

[theresearchpersona]

What I am concerned with is the over-emphasis that some place on "the Word"

.
I don't think it is possible to put too much emphasis on the Word.

Obviously, people can misquote it, and misinterpret it, and take it out of context to support unbiblical things. It is the standard I use to measure the words of men and I believe the Holy Spirit is able to guide us into the Truth of it. One thing my GC experience did for me was to draw me back to the Word and test things--which I should have been doing in the first place.

Everastudent, I liked your winds of doctrine reminder and found it helpful and encouraging.

Amen. It's how it's emphasized, whether authoritative and proper, or wrested and perverted; it's Jesus's prayer for us that we be sanctified by "thy [the Father's] Truth, thy Word is Truth". May you grow in the knowledge and depth of Christ and God!

[jat5453]

Not everyone is called to do the same thing. God knows that. After all, He is the one who called you. It is true that all Christians are meant to be missionaries. We all should be working to further Christ's kingdon. However, we are not all meant to be speakers, evangelists, teachers, homemakers, pastors, doctors,denists, or whatever. God has given us each our own unique gifts to be used in his service.
  GCM does not expect every Chrstian to be called to the same minsitry. Although you may feel like you are in a "spiritual competition" with other believers, you are not. This mindset is just another one of Satan's tools to distroy your soul. Don't let him fool you!! If you actively seek God's will, He will show you where you need to be. He will lift you up, and guide your footsteps.
   Do not let yourself be lost in feelings of spirituality. These will eventually fade. Instead, let yourself be lost in the relationship with Christ that will endure forever.
    The struggles you described are not stemmed from GCM. They are stemmed form looking to man and yourself instead of God.

[theresearchpersona]

A couple things that could greatly benefit you:

1. Define "Kingdom", and how it's used in scripture.
2. How does God's Word depict how God's kingdom is advance, who advances it, by what means/methods/messages.
3. Who does it apply to? Why? How? Etc.

These are actually some questions that trip-up and destroy the faith of many...even leading them into heretical stuff the word says unbelievers hold to. (Hint: I'll probably bring-up that information quite quickly since unfortunately many people talk of these things without actually answering the above questions from scripture; but it's really really good to give people the chance and encouragement to seek out the answers to these questions, in scripture, on their own, in prayer. I.e. I wouldn't recommend trying to find the answers in other books, at least contemporary ones, unless it's a concordance, dictionary of the original terms, as well as study on how those terms are used in the originals.)

Actually, if you could really hit on these well (not just picking-up common misperceptions or answers from men who never actually grab the meanings from the use in scripture) I'd be quite overjoyed! So please do.

Grace.