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Author Topic: Ames '73-'76 Folks~  (Read 9643 times)
Ames '73
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« on: April 29, 2007, 09:06:43 pm »

Any of y'all out there?

I realize this is the "De-Commissioned" site, but if any of you want to reconnect without the baggage of the Blitz/GCA/GCC  whatever ad nauseum, please post, pm or send an email.

Al Muehlke  (A/O Frat house on Welch/Life Herald editorial writer-editor/ Bill Taylor's bud for 4 decades &, of course, Immanuel member)

PS: Y'all come back, hear?
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MamaD
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 07:50:48 am »

You mention that you have kept in contact with Bill Taylor. I have been wondering, since reading Marching to Zion, if Bill Taylor was ever "un"excommunicated. Do you know if he ever received an apology for his "excommunication from the worldwide body of Christ"? I believe his letter of excommunication was signed by a lot of leaders who are currently GCx board members.
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Ames '73
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2007, 02:39:24 pm »


Mama D,

I asked Bill if he'd like to respond here rather than using me a a "proxy." What you see below is an edited (just cut out personal stuff) reply. The reference to Dan Lilly alludes to an email Dan sent out a month or so ago to members of the original Blitz teams and, specifically, former members of the ISU Bible Study about a re-union in Ames this August.


I am glad Dan Lilly has opened the door of re-connection with a bunch of the Ames group.  I like the "De-Commissioned" site.  You by proxy is best for now...but post me up on things that I can give you details on, if I know...
 
Per the questions:   Never been "un" excommunicated...however Dave Bovenmyer (cc'd John Hopler) wrote a little over 2 weeks ago to ask "...if you would have interest in further attempts to pursue reconciliation concerning the church discipline?"  I zipped back a positive response to restart communication but have heard nothing in return.  

And finally -yes there are a number of guys who signed that letter that are now "x's."


Hope this answers your questions Mama D

Al
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MamaD
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2007, 08:44:30 pm »

First of all, Bill, I am really sorry to hear that you have had to live with the unfair "excommunication" hanging over your head all these years.

I just pulled out Marching to Zion and read again your letter of "excommunication" signed by Mike Keator and Fred Colvin as well as the "deposition" which mentions the charges against you and is signed by Dennis Clark, Mike Keator, Fred Colvin, Brian Catalano, Dave Gumlia, Jim McCotter, Gary Kellogg, Mike Royal, Herschel Martindale, Rick Harvey, Rob Irving, Dave Bovenmyer, Larry Clemente, and Steve Schonberg.

I'm just wondering if any of these men ever apologized to you. I believe Fred Colvin later regretted his actions and left GCM. I'm thinking several others on that list have, as well, but would need to reread M2Z to refresh my memory.

I was struck as I re-read the deposition about how many unsubstantiated claims were made against you, as well as the number of third and fourth hand accounts used to "excommunicate" you. And, the fact that the action of "excommunicating" you was done behind your back without you being allowed to give any explanation or defense is astonishing and pathetic.

When my husband read the McCotter book on Leadership a couple years ago, he came across  McCotter's theory that UNITY is the cardinal doctrine and I was reminded right away of reading about your talk on unity and truth at the 1974 elders conference in Albuquerque that got you "in trouble" with others in leadership.

Telling the truth in GCM can get you in trouble and excommunicated (as in your case) or just shunned (as in ours).

It is so sad and sickening to me to read about all the late night visits from elders and unfair excommunications of so many people. What's even sadder is that the younger elders today are so beholden to the older that they won't even look at the negative history to gain an understanding of what is being talked about and perhaps reconcile and move beyond their past.

I've even wondered if part of the GCLI teaching is that there is some sort of odd vow that is taken against reading about or listening to anything "negative" (even if it's the truth about something that needs to be corrected) about GCM. It seems that many leaders remain in the dark by choice. Two elders refused to even look at Marching to Zion when we had it sitting on the table in front of them and were wanting their opinion on the events stated in it.

I suppose I'm cynical, and don't want to dismiss the idea that a GCM leader contacted you to "pursue reconciliation concerning the church discipline", but it seems to me that a huge step in reconciliation would be to start by sending you a letter saying, "We were wrong. We are sorry. Please forgive us," and then retroactively remove your 31 year "excommunication."

I hope that happens...soon.

I also think this makes the case very well for Matthew 18 and taking things before the WHOLE church (meaning the congregation and not just the elder board). I think your situation might have played out differently if it was out in the open.

At any rate, God bless you.
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Independence-exer
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 04:52:02 pm »

I remember the meeting when Dave Gumlia came back to tell us what the elders had done in Columbus.  This being the first instance of disfellowshipping we had heard of, we were all kind of dumbfounded and went along with it.  It was unthinkable to challenge the elder.  The only reason given was the Taylor did not agree with the evangelism strategy of Jim McCotter (which , best I can tell, McCotter never practiced himself).  Plus, oh horrors, Taylor expressed his concerns about the dogmatic nature of a biblical interpretation, publicly.  All we were told was that the elders considered that to be divisive and factious.

In the succeeding years, we saw more disfellowshippings, many of which were for disagreeing with the elders and having conversations about it with friends.  Many left, and after they were gone, the elders disfellowshipped them.  

Can you put the letter the elders signed online on this forum?
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Ames '73
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 04:55:33 pm »

Anybody know how to post a PDF file here?

Bill sent me the letter in a PDF file but I can't figure out how to save it as text that I can copy here.
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TerryD
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2007, 09:36:34 am »

You should be able to open the PDF on your screen, highlight the text, copy it and paste it directly into the "Post a reply" box where you normally post. No?
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Ames '73
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2007, 01:08:05 pm »

One would think so Terry but, for some reason when it's opened, it won't allow me to copy, cut or paste.

Thanks for your reply Terry.

Al

PS: Still open for suggestions from any of you who are 'pooter literate than me~

PSS: Bill mentioned that Fred Colvin, Brian Catalano, Mike Royal and Rick Harvey have re-established contact with him.

I'm more than happy to field any questions for Bill & post any replies that he sends but I'm still hoping that some Ames folks from      '73-'76 will post.
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Linda
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2010, 07:33:27 am »

Here is the section where we talked about Bill still being excommunicated. I'm just wondering if Bovenmyer or Hopler ever followed through with the "reconciliation". Anyone know?

Also, Independence-exer asked that the documentation be placed on the forum. It is all in Marching to Zion under the section Times of Trouble. Here's the link.
http://gcxweb.org/Books/MarchingToZion/MTZ-Trouble.aspx

Quote
Bill mentioned that Fred Colvin, Brian Catalano, Mike Royal and Rick Harvey have re-established contact with him.
Did these men leave the movement, then?

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