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Author Topic: Deception & Denial among GCx Leaders  (Read 22933 times)
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2021, 08:52:52 am »

God speaks best toward those who are deceptive.  He can see through them.


“But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking
 in your hearts,
do not boast and lie against the truth.
This wisdom does not descend from above,
but is earthly, sensual, and demonic.”

James 3:14-15

« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 07:05:50 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2021, 01:32:10 pm »

Dear sister...how do you not SEE that these verses are CLEARLY directed toward you and this WHOLE website.  When are you going to wake up?
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2022, 09:01:39 pm »

These are important things for people to know that often go on behind the scenes in churches with GCx indoctrinated and “loyal” staff. They are from the “Worst of the worst. Serious Errors.”  Found here at:

 http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/the-worst-of-the-worst-serious-error/msg8192/#msg8192



Doublespeak. When we asked about the conference where our minor child was asked to commit to a GC [GCx alias] church for life, the pastor who taught that looked us in the eye and said he had misspoken, that he didn't mean that. He even handed us a "created just for us" letter on our church's letterhead stating that wasn't what he meant and he was sorry for the confusion. However, when we asked how that letter was going to be distributed to the 300 student and their parents who attended the conference and heard otherwise, he told us we were free to show it to anyone. If he really believed he had misspoken, he would have used the mailing list he had with the names of all attending and sent the letter. Furthermore, he would not have left the talk up online where he tells the students to commit for life to the organization. And, finally, he wouldn't continue to teach commitment to the movement for life at conferences. When pressed, they say what they need to say to appease people and cover for themselves, but believe and teach the opposite. Doublespeak.
. . .
Misrepresenting how our local church was started. According to the web site it was an idea that the two founding pastors had. Partially true. They forgot about the part where the two founding pastors and a bunch of others were sent up here from Ames by founding apostle Jim McCotter in the mid-'80's. Must have slipped their mind.

-Linda



Duplicity. Inherent, systemic duplicity. Church leaders lied about all the most essential matters regarding who they were, what they were as a group, what their aims were, and whom they were connected with.

-ISU Alumna



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« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2022, 07:22:39 pm »




What hurts the victim most is not the cruelty of the oppressor,
but the silence of the bystander.


There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice,
but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.


One person of integrity can make a difference.


-Elie Wiesel


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« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2022, 08:12:15 pm »


Opening Our Eyes to the Darkness



Arise, shine, for your light has come,
    and the glory of the Lord rises upon you.
See, darkness covers the earth
    and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the Lord rises upon you
    and his glory appears over you.

Isaiah 60:1



Scripture in many places seems to suggest and support that the persuasion (or spell) we were under in GCx Churches and Leadership was NOT from God. The harassment, oppression, condemnation, manipulation and isolation were of a dark influence. As others have said and I myself experienced - we were in a spiritual battle against us to darken and hide enlightenment of our spiritual eyes. Later, when I left my GCx church and came upon the passage above, I felt the Spirit say in a serious but gentle nudge that we were indeed under a cover of darkness through many GCxteachings, “authority”, and practices. In fact, the way most people describe their learning that this group was not good for them or their faith is that THEIR EYES WERE OPENED.

Here are just some of numerous testimonies of former GCx members:



We started asking questions in February of 2005 after a large all church gathering where Mark Darling told us we were his (Mark's) bride and leaving your church was akin to divorcing your spouse. Within weeks a Google search revealed the name Jim McCotter (we had never heard him mentioned by name) and we found GCC on cult lists. We also came across Wellspring and Terry called Larry Pile. At that point, Larry sent us "Marching to Zion" and our eyes were opened. ...

GC people thrive on perceived persecution. I also agree that this is a spiritual battle. These people have been deceived. Everyone from the top leaders to the newest campus members. They need their eyes opened.

God is in the business of opening eyes and it might surprise you to learn that two of our children made a decision to leave GC after listening to a Faithwalkers tape. Literally, in the middle of the tape they said, "That's it. I'm leaving."

-Linda


"Grace Awakening", is what finally opened my eyes to leave the bondage of GCx.

-Janet


First off thankfully it does appear that the light shown onto leadership has had a large effect on the attenders. ... [BK] says "For those of you who are distressed about how Evergreen's leadership crisis has affected the church and how the church is diminished because of it...

However he is still preaching his obey us or die type of teachings in the church. That too is evident from his Facebook posts and planned messages in the church. Of course he says obey God however with the added teachings of the Pastors being God's mouthpiece - it all ends in saying "Obey ME or die".

Lets all pray and hope that more people at Evergreen [Hometown Church] have their eyes opened to the Grand Manipulation of the mind that they are prisoner to.

-OneOfMany


Don't forget that most of us who are posting here were once just as enthusiastic about McCotter and/or his church as you are now. We supported the Blitz/GC against all accusers, and devoted our energy to promoting it whenever we could. We pushed ourselves to keep going in spite of all the red flags, until finally the red flags reached such a critical mass that our eyes were opened.

-Huldah


I discovered this forum about 7-8 years before I left GCM. I lurked for those 7-8 years. I found the forum very helpful because it was validation of everything I was experiencing at that time.  

Those whose eyes are opened to the harmful practices of GCM discover this site at all different times, so we're here whenever people need us. Now that I've been here for awhile, I don't "need" to come on here as frequently for healing, but I'm sure glad it was here when I needed it.  IMO, that's why it stays on--

-Margaret


It has been thrilling to leave that church. It felt so freeing - I felt burdens just lift when I decided I was done. I still feel that freedom, I just didn’t expect to also start feeling depressed, afraid and doubtful, too. When I decided to leave, I was like a blazing fire - I knew that that place was corrupt and God was blessing me by setting me apart from it. It seems that fire is now accompanied by anguish. Makes me think of David Wilkerson, talking about God baptizing true followers in His anguish so we can be His real hands and feet.

. . . I know this is not a flesh and blood war. It’s spiritual. I’ve been entangled in spiritual darkness and wickedness for at least 2 years now. Praise the Lord He has opened my eyes and set me on the right paths for His name’s sake!!!!! All glory be to Him.

. . . I do not see the body of Christ there... I do not see God’s hands and feet. I see people claiming they are Christians who just use the word and that “church building” as a means of upward mobility and status. A “look at me, look at me”...

-JustGiveMeJesus


Thankfully our eyes opened a while ago, maybe 10+ years.  The curtain is just being pulled back farther and farther and by people I know and trust better than earlier.

-Phoenix


I had been sure that their Christian walk was so right because they kept telling me it was right, that they were different, that we were special. ...Then my eyes were opened and all of those things took on a sinister bent. ...My GCx church was full of sincere, kind people.  I still miss them and the fellowship.  But I can't go back because THEY are TRAPPED. They are oppressed. They can't see it. I still love them, but I'm embarrassed for them too.

-Agatha L’Orange




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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2022, 06:01:23 pm »


Opening Our Eyes to the Darkness - II



... to open the eyes of the blind, to bring prisoners out of the dungeon
and those sitting in darkness out from the prison house
.
I am the LORD; that is My name!
I will not yield My glory to another or My praise to idols.

Isaiah 42:7-8


God can open eyes that have been darkened by lies as we cling to Him more than idols which men have invented. He longs for us to take shelter under his wings rather than the “safety” of man-made prisons. Here are more true stories from those whose eyes were opened to the oppressive darkness and captivity of GCx.



Several people [at GCx WCCC] started reading and studying their Bible on their own and had their eyes opened to grace. Then were labeled as bitter, divisive and falling away. But the thing is, people do struggle after leaving the church, many words and ideas have to be completely redefined without the legalism attached.

-Mary7


The pressure to be ultra "committed" to the point of burn out.  My husband in meetings all the time and him feeling depressed because he didn't measure up to some kind of nebulous standard of cool dudeness for leadership, geek that he is. His depression lifted almost immediately when we left.    

Leaving GCx did open up a new world. We heard speakers outside the GC circuit. Very refreshing. And books, I'm a reader.  I like studying theology.

Gradually our eyes were more opened to the unhealthy aspects of GCx and how it had affected us.

-GodisFaithful


The best thing to do if you see practices that do not line up with scripture and with Jesus Christ, is to simply leave. Pray that leadership's eyes will be opened ... The testimony of the majority of people on this site is that they wanted things to change and brought it forward to leadership (myself included) and that for the past 40 years, nothing has changed for the long haul. Apologies have been made, but the abuses keep persisting and rearing their ugly heads because the traditions have not been truly repented of.

Jesus' instruction to the people under unbiblical leadership was, "Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit." (Matthew 15:14)

-MarthaH


I was in Cornerstone (GCI) years ago and some how I stumbled onto this and other sites. ... (this was so long ago, late 70's so my memory is a bit fuzzy).  Somehow we stumbled into this really cool church that seemed to be living the new testament life(Cornerstone). Then a bunch of stuff happened...  eventually we (I was married by that time and had a young child) left cornerstone a year after it turned into GCI (probably 1986).  We weren't publicly shunned/rebuked but all my friends were no longer my friends because we dared leave the church. ... Struggles that I had/have are making sense to me now.

I think this site has helped open my eyes a bit and it has given me some understanding as to why I struggle with a few things.


-Lynn


I have been out of Urban Refuge- Evergreen [GCx Church] for a little over two years.  I had years of confusion there, and wanted to leave much earlier than we did. I also am married and my husband did not see what I was seeing. The Evergreen line that I was told by various pastors is that " I do not like to follow.", " I do not like to submit."    I felt like a crazy person.  I could not articulate what I was feeling or seeing.

... Bottom line was that the counselor was able to discern that Evergreen was not a healthy place for me, it was not a safe place for me, it felt toxic to my soul.  He was able to help my husband see that even if I could not explain it, or articulate it well, could my husband just accept that it was not a healthy place for me.  My husband was humble enough to realize that for my sake and for the sake of our marriage, it would be the best to leave.  He did not want to leave.  Thankfully his commitment to our marriage and to Jesus was bigger than our commitment to the church.

... Now that we have been out of Evergreen, my husband can clearly see the wrong teaching and the wrong focus of emphasis on church commitment. leadership, and mission, not Jesus. ... To be in a church that is so chaotic, confusing and unhealthy may not be God's best.  That is not of the Spirit.  As believers, the Holy Spirit is in each one of us.  Be obedient to that still small voice of the Lord.  Seek outside counsel. Do not give up on Jesus. Jesus is not the abuser, but many within the church.

-Heidi


Please use your experience as a tool to encourage others to be careful of the darkness and hidden agenda of GC* affiliates. You and your husband were wise to open your eyes to the great joys to be found
 in a welcoming parish!

-Angry


This is unreal. Things are out of control. Leaders can do anything and say anything and get away with it. This is frightening. May God open eyes and show people the deception and help it to be exposed.

-snoopy


... just discovered today that Walnut Creek was part of an association that was once called a cult. We couldn't figure out why until today, when I discovered this forum. Not only is their church service one of the least inspiring I have ever attended (really bad rock music by young people, a super weak message--it was all more like a bad school pep assembly) ...

Thanks for understanding my newness to this GC topic--you have all helped open my eyes to answer a lot of confusing questions about [GCx] Walnut Creek I've had over the past few years!

-meman54


People in the church don't realize that it's a cultish church and can't be convinced that it isn't.  The only way people get out of the church is if God opens their eyes and they take the leap to leave on their own.

-trthskr


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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2022, 07:52:31 pm »

You are doing what they do best - Instead of coming to us, we are to come to them.  This puts them in a position of power that is unwarranted, and undeserved.  They act in arrogant presumption.
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« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2022, 05:31:50 am »

Pvitartas, I was reading some of your early posts this morning. Oh my goodness, you were so sinfully wounded by GCx leaders and culture! My hearts hurts just reading part of your story. Thank you for being willing to share. Like many, you were falsely “beat down” so that those over you might be “raised up” or exulted.

I get that it still brings some sense of fear decades later to speak up. I think many still have some sense of fear of arrogant backlash by them because of the ungodly power they were free to wield unchecked in our lives. God told me not long after I began to write here:


Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome,
and fight for your brothers, your sons and your daughters, your wives…

Nehemiah 4:14


For warning those entering or still in their spell, for encouraging those crushed by their false power, and for exposing their painful charade I write.


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« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2022, 05:36:16 am »


In the 70's in Solid Rock, things were kept in house as much as possible.  I recall an expose written in the Ohio State University Newspaper, the Lantern, in which a Solid Rock spokesman downright lied.  He stated that "disciples" were not encouraged to drop out of college by members of then, Solid Rock.  I assure you, from personal experience, that is/was a lie.  I lost two years of college time because of these idiots, and my being gullible.

It really doesn't look like the self righteous have changed - the movement has simply taken on an older, more mature, public relations face.

I really do fear harrassment by these people simply for being critical.   

-pvitartas


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« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2022, 03:04:17 pm »

Oh boy, are these distinctions all too familiar to current and former members! In case your ignoring red flags, listen to this spiritual abuse author clearly outline telling traits.



Confronting Toxic Leaders - Remy Diederich  (4 min.)

https://youtu.be/iPxLxKqx0xU


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« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2022, 08:32:41 pm »

Quotes to Note about GCx Deception and Deletion



I was referring to the part where JH, a member of the GCC board of Directors, directly advised GCM staff to remove factual, sourced information from the organization's Wikipedia article.  

Did you know that during the Maryland Political controversy that the people running for office were not only appointed by the church, but that the end goal was to Secede from the Union (?!) and setup a theocracy?  The raw truth is actually way worse than the watered-down summary on Wikipedia.  John didn't even want us to re-word things, he just wanted us to do broad-sweeping removals.

-nate



It's interesting that, of all the criticisms leveled at GCx on this forum over the years, the only thing they chose to address is an insignificant technicality.

Quote from: gcmweb.org
“We believe in the Biblical models of resolving conflicts, reconciliation and christian conciliation.”

Once again, they make it about personal conflicts instead of doctrinal aberrations. You don't resolve bad doctrine by mediation. As Linda has pointed out, you don't reconcile with bad doctrine.

Anonymity isn't the issue. The issue is what they teach. Making anonymity an issue is merely an ad hominem attack.

-Huldah



I was on staff for a number of years and had problems. I was a member of a GCAC church while on staff and had problems there, too. When I was in training for staff (to learn how to raise support) we were told GCM is the mission arm of GCAC. When I write my intro I'll explain a bit more, but don't believe if someone says they're separate. On paper, yes....in locations, yes...but in interacting, no way.....we had a Pastor/Staff conference each year where GCM staffers and pastors from GCAC churches all attended & heard the same teachings from the same people. Don't buy it.

-formerstaffer, 2011



GC [GCx alias], as a denomination, may preach the gospel of Christ, but it fails to live the gospel of Christ.  The leaders are not self-sacrificing toward the flock, they are not humble servants of the flock, and they teach Christian men how to twist the Word of God and to lie without feeling guilty.  These are harmful behaviors.  This is not an ordinary church, for it is extraordinarily ignorant of how to do the Word, how to love, and of what servant leadership is all about.

-ANobody


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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2023, 04:07:26 pm »


FALSE IDENTITY



acted deceptively and set out as envoys, carrying on their donkeys worn-out sacks and old wineskins, cracked and mended. They put worn, patched sandals on their feet and threadbare clothing on their bodies, and their whole supply of bread was dry and moldy. They went to Joshua in the camp at Gilgal and said to him and the men of Israel, “We have come from a distant land; please make a treaty with us.”

Then Joshua asked them, “Who are you and where have you come from?

“Your servants have come from a very distant land,” they replied…

Then the men of Israel sampled their provisions, but did not seek the counsel of the LORD. And Joshua made a treaty of peace with them … and the leaders of the congregation swore an oath to them.

Joshua 8:4-6,8,9,14-15



As I was reading in Joshua this morning, this particular portion of chapter 9 caught my attention. I can easily imagine there is much more going on here than seen in a casual reading. The Israelites were obviously persuaded into believing a planned deception. But, it seems their gut sensed something wasn’t right from the getgo.

They had good questions to vet the imposters, but they asked the wrong people. They asked the strangers in question. Those foreigners had practiced “answers” to draw them in. Rather than the Israelites keep a safe distance until they sought their trustworthy source, God the Father; they were led by persuasion from men they knew nothing about.

It seems sampling or eating food of foreign kings could be be potentially hazardous. Eating their food may have been a gesture of friendship in ancient Middle Eastern societies. Maybe the Israelites were tired of fighting?? Or over-confident with the previous momentous victories?? Either way there seems some kind of “bonding” in the partaking of things they prepared.

What is clear is that these Israelites did not seek God’s counsel about this new and consequential relationship. Perhaps this deception was inspired by Satan himself. Only God and his Spirit can see through demonic deception. The human eye and ear can be fooled. They definitely needed God’s guidance.

If you are thinking about visiting or joining a church group originating in the GCx Organization; be aware they dress themselves on the outside to look like they don’t have a history with GCx. They pretend to have much distance. They are not forthright with direct questions. They withhold the truth. It would not be wise to get answers by asking these churches or leaders your questions.

It would be safest to ask your Heavenly Father first. He knows what’s up at these churches. Then, seek out truth about them outside by finding out who they are and where they came from, NOT who and where THEY SAY they came from. Just like the Israelites we need a spiritual appraisal. Spend some time praying about this before joining any church. Ask God for wisdom from above to reveal things to you. Don’t shrug off red flags.

Keep a safe distance while researching. Don’t make any commitment to them. If you have signed a “covenant” with them, they may threaten you with “God’s curse” in breaking your pledge. I signed a donation pledge under invasive pressure (including how much they thought I “could” give based on my past tithing) for a new building fund, but left my GCx Church within weeks because God opened my eyes to the oppression and bondage there. I discounted that pledge because it was a manipulatively produced pledge and it was spiritually, mentally and emotionally damaging for me to stay. I was confident God wanted me OUT - pledge or no pledge.


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« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2023, 02:00:04 pm »



I read a recent post on Facebook by a person who left a GC church and he called out the leadership in a very factual way. Several people then posted about how what he did was not loving and a few people later posted on their own walls how bitter people make them angry. A few others posted that they also feel the same way and that the organization is changing. It is not changing. Everything that had been voiced publicly by the young man had been voiced by others before him, including myself. Leadership pretends to be sincere when listening to objections and pretends that they are unaware of them but they are not.

-Outtathere,   2015



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« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2023, 07:15:28 pm »


... a few people later posted on their own walls how bitter people make them angry.

Yeah, that's something we see from time to time right here on the forum. Current GCx members acting all bitter and upset that former members are bitter and upset.
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« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2023, 10:07:42 pm »

On the Summitview Community Church [formed by GCx] site and other GCx formed churches there are icons on one of their pages that represent “associated” groups. We know the National Association of Evangelicals seems to have blindly given them membership. There is reference to M28 Alliance which was founded by loyal GCx leaders. And now there is an icon for The Gospel Coalition. This is very disconcerting, not to mention VERY disappointing!! They obviously have not been rightly informed of the “GCx culture” of abusive practices. These “GCx” leaders seemed to have once again pulled the wool over the eyes of people they want a “rubber stamp” from.

But, I also found at the top of the page that links Summitview to them —this disclaimer:

“While TGC does its best to validate each entry, TGC cannot guarantee the actual health of these churches as they are self-regulated.”


Why would they put such unhealthy churches in a directory under their respected name? Not a good move, TGC?


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« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2023, 08:16:11 pm »



My father was a pastor in the GCM movement in the late 80's, 90's and 2000's. ...

There is a lot of baggage that has been hidden by this movement. The way problems are dealt with is not how it should be. Mark Darlings little hug-a-thon issues and "alone time" with women in the church are only the tip of the iceberg. ...

I just spoke with the pastor of a church that was apart of GCM until 3 weeks ago. John Hopler and Rick Whitney asked him to support them and get behind Mark Darling. The pastor and his co pastor decided with the facts presented to them that they couldn't stand behind Mark Darling so Hopler and Whitney pulled the funding for this church and this church is no longer apart of GCM and shut their doors last week for good.

-ReaperofGCM



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« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2023, 09:27:56 pm »



I've watched people take concerns over error and they're flat-blank told "WE'D BE OKAY IF YOU LEAVE". I also know where some of this policy comes from; rather, though, than delve deep into scripture to investigate claims of abuse etc. they blow it off an defend one another, then call those little sheep slanderers and divisive. ...

-theresearchpersona,   2007


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« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2023, 08:30:59 am »

Quote
“When No One’s Looking - Part 11″ Taught by SB [GCx Pastor name abbreviated] (8/27/2006), Evergreen Community Church:

“Now, if he takes that personal opinion, that personal conviction, which the bible doesn’t clearly teach, at all, and starts talking to people and trying to rally them around his opinion, trying to convince them to think like he does and it becomes divisive. If he puts up a website [pause] or a blog [pause] that’s openly divisive.. then that’s not from God. … A person who has a heart to be divisive is following his sin nature. He’s not following Christ, it’s not from God. So use discernment.. Be careful what books you read. Make sure it’s God’s opinion, not man’s opinion. Be careful what websites you read because there’s a lot of people with a heart to divide.”

Reading this actually made me laugh. There was a time it made me cry. This "sermon" was preached against my husband A YEAR AFTER WE LEFT when some talk had been going around that we left because we didn't like the youth group and he wanted to set the record straight that we left because of false teaching, so he blogged our reasons for anyone interested.

I have sympathy for many of these people because it is so clear that they are deceived. It still stings to be called names, of course, but there is an element of pity for those caught in the trap. I still pray that eyes will be opened.

I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you.
You're strong.
The Lord is our strength.
I know people still entrapped in GCx/Reliant.
They are stubborn but I pray Jesus breaks through.
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Therese
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« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2023, 08:35:47 am »



My father was a pastor in the GCM movement in the late 80's, 90's and 2000's. ...

There is a lot of baggage that has been hidden by this movement. The way problems are dealt with is not how it should be. Mark Darlings little hug-a-thon issues and "alone time" with women in the church are only the tip of the iceberg. ...

I just spoke with the pastor of a church that was apart of GCM until 3 weeks ago. John Hopler and Rick Whitney asked him to support them and get behind Mark Darling. The pastor and his co pastor decided with the facts presented to them that they couldn't stand behind Mark Darling so Hopler and Whitney pulled the funding for this church and this church is no longer apart of GCM and shut their doors last week for good.

-ReaperofGCM





That's not right what Hopler and Whitney did.
Do you know what church and who the pastors are that didn't support Mark Darling?
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Therese
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« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2023, 08:45:57 am »

You keep trying to attack people's character ones of pointing out specific issues and discussing them.  Why not join Him on the podcast and oppose him to his face?  I am sure he would welcome that.  Why not mend and get things right?

Hello Vince,
I contacted John Hopler directly through a phone call years ago but he was unwilling to make things right.
We know the leadership can be quite aggressive and we know it's not fruitful to deal with an aggressive person. We pray for all the GCx/Reliant  leaders .
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