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September 28, 2022, 02:33:58 pm *
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Author Topic: Info about GCM in New Zealand, McCotter, & Geoff Botkin  (Read 40236 times)
MidnightRider
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2009, 09:39:18 am »

That is not exclusively a GCx position. 

Right. I have not been able to verify this, but my current (non-GCx) pastor told me that this was taught in a book by Peter Gillquist called _Love Is Now_, published I think in the 1970s. I have no idea where Gillquist would have got this idea.

Gillquist was a fairly-high-up person in Campus Crusade for Christ. Later he left CCC to help found the Evangelical Orthodox Church, which was later absorbed into the Antiochian Orthodox Church. I suspect that Gillquist no longer holds this view, since there is plenty of asking for forgiveness in every Orthodox liturgy.

I think the NPP movement is much more recent. And I doubt that anyone in GCx would have been familiar with it. It is much more likely they would have picked it up from someone in CCC, or from the same source that Gillquist did.

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That view has become prominent with the NPP (New Perspectives on Paul) branch of theology, just this side of hyper-dispensationalism.  The argument runs a bit deeper than just "we no longer need to confess our sins;" since all that Jesus did was "for the dispensation of the Jews," most of His teachings can be ignored (along with the gospels) and more attention must be paid to Paul's writings, the "only writings given to the Gentile / church dispensation." 

Usually these folks forget that Paul taught that his gospel was no different than the gospel of Jesus and that salvation always was by faith alone and did not change from dispensation to dispensation.  It just blows my mind that some Christians can think that Jesus' teaching was not relevant for the church age. 

Paul said that he taught nothing other than what was taught in Moses and the prophets (Acts 26:22, for example).

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ustawannabee
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2009, 02:25:33 pm »

a couple of thoughts quite later, as I dont check regularly.
I still am not sure if the 1 John thing was written to Christians or not. I have been taught both ways over the years, but I know what a difference it made in my spirit/heart/walk or whatever,the first time(after several years of being a Christian) that instead of asking forgiveness for whatever sin, I agreed with God that it was sin and thanked Him that I was already forgiven instead!!
has this discussion been moved to another thread and I missed it?

same for the Bill Gothard discussion, is it moved? His seminar was influential (along with a lot of other people and things) in my coming to Christ, but it did a swell job of setting me up for falling into the GCx quagmire. I certainly don't recommend it but do appreciate some of his definitions and stuff, as I remember them eg "Patience is accepting a difficult situation without giving God a deadline to remove it"
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Now I am free to be me in Christ!
Cindy
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2009, 06:09:00 am »

Here is an update:

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2009/05/botkin-update-who-is-geoff-botkin-and.html
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Linda
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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2009, 07:55:58 am »

Very sobering, Cindy. Thank you for taking the time to do all this research.
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