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Author Topic: Just Read the Mike Royal Letter for the First Time  (Read 8752 times)
EverAStudent
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« on: January 07, 2009, 04:40:51 pm »

OK, write me off as slow, but I just read the Mike Royal letter for the first time.  It is a highly precise and accurate encapsulation of the errors of GCI in the mid-1980's.  My only regret is that I did not have it in hand when I left GCI in 1984. 

My wife was thrilled to hear, when I told her just now, that Mike had actually left GCI four years before we did (because Mike had recruited my wife into the group,  who then recruited me).  My wife was actually acquainted with both Mike Royal and Sam Lopez.  She has always had nothing but high praise for Mike Royal.  I always questioned her on how praise-worthy he could have been if he was such a core member of GCI and had pulled her into their clutches.  I also wondered why he never warned her (and the others he recruited into the organization) as to the true nature of the group (I do so wish he had warned her when he left in 1980).  That said, at least he had the good sense to see the problems before I did and got out of Dodge.

For any new folks on the site, the letter is here:  http://gcxweb.org/Misc/MikeRoyal-06-28-1985.aspx

« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 04:43:07 pm by EverAStudent » Logged
EverAStudent
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 10:20:31 am »

Quote from: GCXWEB.com Letter of Apology from GCI
This statement was ratified by the pastors and national leaders of the Great Commission Association of churches on July 19, 1991.

This quote comes from the concluding salutation line of the Letter of Apology found on the GCXWEB.com site: http://gcxweb.org/Misc/WeaknessesPaper.aspx

Exactly what were the names of the men who were "national leaders" in July 1991 who supposedly signed this admission / apology letter?
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puff of purple smoke
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 10:31:30 am »

Quote from: GCXWEB.com Letter of Apology from GCI
This statement was ratified by the pastors and national leaders of the Great Commission Association of churches on July 19, 1991.

This quote comes from the concluding salutation line of the Letter of Apology found on the GCXWEB.com site: http://gcxweb.org/Misc/WeaknessesPaper.aspx

Exactly what were the names of the men who were "national leaders" in July 1991 who supposedly signed this admission / apology letter?

They didn't include any signatures other than David Bovenmeyer's. There is a transcript of the weaknesses paper announcement/ratification here: http://gcxweb.org/Audio/WeaknessesPaper-GCAC-1991.aspx
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EverAStudent
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 10:51:34 am »

Puff, it dawned on me, as I was reading back through this stuff, recalling the past, and reading Mike's letter, that in the '70s and '80s we heard alot about these wisened "national elders" who ran GCI but never actually got listings of their names, other than McCotter and Clark. 

I am guessing now that the list of names was kept unpublished for reasons of their own.  But it would be interesting to see a year-by-year map of who held the reigns with McCotter, and more interestingly, which of those left in which years. 

For example, I did not know until just this month that Mike Royal had ever left GCI at all, much less in 1980!  Was he ever a "national leader / national elder"?

If anyone can provide lists of names for any years (and a comment as to what happened to these men) that would be very enlightening.
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puff of purple smoke
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 10:54:02 am »

Puff, it dawned on me, as I was reading back through this stuff, recalling the past, and reading Mike's letter, that in the '70s and '80s we heard alot about these wisened "national elders" who ran GCI but never actually got listings of their names, other than McCotter and Clark. 

I am guessing now that the list of names was kept unpublished for reasons of their own.  But it would be interesting to see a year-by-year map of who held the reigns with McCotter, and more interestingly, which of those left in which years. 

For example, I did not know until just this month that Mike Royal had ever left GCI at all, much less in 1980!  Was he ever a "national leader / national elder"?

If anyone can provide lists of names for any years (and a comment as to what happened to these men) that would be very enlightening.

It would be interesting to look into. Of note is that when you look over some of the 70's and 80's excommunication letters, many of the people who signed onto them are STILL in GC leadership. John Hopler, Rick Whitney, Herschel, Dennis Clark etc.
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DrSam
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 01:22:36 pm »

Mike Royal was not an Elder or a National Leader.

Puff, it dawned on me, as I was reading back through this stuff, recalling the past, and reading Mike's letter, that in the '70s and '80s we heard alot about these wisened "national elders" who ran GCI but never actually got listings of their names, other than McCotter and Clark. 

I am guessing now that the list of names was kept unpublished for reasons of their own.  But it would be interesting to see a year-by-year map of who held the reigns with McCotter, and more interestingly, which of those left in which years. 

For example, I did not know until just this month that Mike Royal had ever left GCI at all, much less in 1980!  Was he ever a "national leader / national elder"?

If anyone can provide lists of names for any years (and a comment as to what happened to these men) that would be very enlightening.
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exshep
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 09:08:04 pm »

I have always had mixed reactions to  the 1991  Apology.  There was some undeniable glasnot  in some circles but not in others.

On the down side, I tried to contact a GC member of the Columbus church to discuss the document. Her response was a robotic talk to the elders, they have all the answers.  I was also left the impression it was not worth the paper it was printed.  Jury is out on this one, but would be inclined to side with the defense.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
EverAStudent
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 03:47:00 pm »

In the September 1983 issue of The Cause magazine, page 11, Great Commission announced their planned name change from Great Commission Incorporated to Great Commission International.  Until they changed their name from Inc. to International, events like the "International Summer Conference '84" were advertised as being sponsored by "Great Commission, Inc." (page 13, The Cause, Vol. 2, Issue 2, 1984).  Similarly, the "National Black Conference, Washington D.C. ... Great Commission, Inc., Black Conference" (ibid.) was also organized by Great Commission Incorporated

I remember in our own assembly when the elders announced we were no longer associated with Great Commission Incorporated, but we were now part of Great Commission International.  It sounded less "culty" was the explanation I remember taking away from that meeting.

Regarding identifying the National Leaders of GCI, the May/June 1988 issue of The Cause, page 14, states, "GCI REPORT--FIVE NEW NATIONAL LEADERS:  Five pastors of Great Commission churches--Terry Bartley, Dave Bovenmyer, Herschel Martindale, Tom Shroeder and Tom Short--were appointed national leaders during the national pastors conference near Annapolis, Maryland, in January.  This brings to 10 the total number of Great Commission national leaders.  The others are: Dennis Clark, John Hopler, Rob Irvine, Sam Lopez and Rick Whitney. ... 'What I appreciated the most is realizing that these men are all united in one purpose...' said Brian Johnston, a recently appointed pastor in Guelph, Ontario, Canada, attending his first national pastors conference." 

The next blurb on the same page in the magazine reads in part, "VISION '88 REPORT  The Vision '88 fund-raising drive has begun on the heels of the many successes reported by the campus staff members who were supported by the Vision '87 drive.  The funds from Vision '88 will be used ... primarily to pay the salaries of campus staff...The fund will pay the salaries of Sam Lopez and Nacho Pecina, who are pastors in the Great Commission church in Miami, Florida."

I found it interesting that these 10 men, national leaders, were "all united in one purpose."  This lesson of unity in purpose, doctrne, and practice was reiterated in an article by Sam Lopez in his "NATIONAL LEADER'S NOTE" found in the July/August 1988 issue of The Cause.  He wrote in part, "My heart has been knit--as Jonathan's was with David's--with those men...I learned that doctrine is better picked up by seeing living examples than by hearing words.  I learned that God lavishes more blessings upon humble, united men who love one another than on powerful, charismatic but independent Christians."

Based on such testimony, I have not doubt that these 10 men were indeed strongly unified in purpose, practice, and doctrine.  As Sam stated, it is impossible to imagine any of those men being "independent" and not going along with the unity of the organization in teaching and exercising those things that Mike Royal referred to as "abuses" in his letter to Mike Braun. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 03:52:38 pm by EverAStudent » Logged
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