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Author Topic: Do you know anything about these colleges?  (Read 92418 times)
Linda
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2009, 06:11:33 am »

Quote from: Randomous
The answer is that Gator Christian Life is a registered student organization at UF and a ministry of a local church.
Randomous, thanks for answering my question about the status of GCL.
Excellent points anonymous.
So, here's the deal.

When I click on the link to GCL, and go to the "about us" section of the web page the only names listed are "officers". Male and female officers.

Below that column is a box that has a link to "Our Staff" and takes you to the GCM "missionary" page for a list of the GCM people working at GCL.

Nowhere can I find a list of any pastors or elders of GCL. However, if I go to the GCC page, I find that (just like anonymous mentioned) GCL is also a GCC church. So, if it is a GCC church, who are the pastors? I can't find a list of elders for this church. I can only find officers and staff. Very odd.

Apparently, they do have at least one elder (according to their plurality of elders doctrine they are supposed to have more than one) named Matt Gordon. I figured this out from the home page that mentions he will be heading up a 40 days of prayer event.

What this looks like from the outside is that on the GCL web page, they want to be careful to not mention "pastors". Note also, they do not call themselves a church in the name of their group.

Looking at the Sunday Service, I do see that they have live and loud worship music, and Bible teaching followed by fellowship. Interestingly enough, they meet at an auditorium on the campus of the University of Florida.

Now, maybe they have no intention of deceiving, but if they are presenting themselves as a student organization and taking advantage of free or reduced rates for building usage when they are actually a church with a ministry for college age students, they are being deceptive.

I agree with randomous that there are many churches that offer college ministries. The difference is that they don't call themselves student organizations and affiliate themselves with one particular college. This is very unusual.

As a parent, of college age students, I think this is particularly unhealthy. This is a GC church with a history of using spiritual authority to insert themselves between students and parents while asking for a lifetime commitment to the group. This is hardly a traditional campus organization. I don't much mind my children heading over to the student union for a Bible study and some cookies on occasion. I would tremble if I heard they were joining up with a group on campus that had a founding apostle who mysteriously disappeared, a history of being on cult watch lists, was currently asking for a lifetime commitment and suggesting that parents who don't want their children to make that commitment are inserting themselves between their child and God.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 07:41:22 am by Linda » Logged

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ANobody
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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2009, 09:02:03 am »

Quote from: Linda
What this looks like from the outside is that on the GCL web page, they want to be careful to not mention "pastors". Note also, they do not call themselves a church in the name of their group.

Looking at the Sunday Service, I do see that they have live and loud worship music, and Bible teaching followed by fellowship. Interestingly enough, they meet at an auditorium on the campus of the University of Florida.

Now, maybe they have no intention of deceiving, but if they are presenting themselves as a student organization and taking advantage of free or reduced rates for building usage when they are actually a church with a ministry for college age students, they are being deceptive.

I agree with randomous that there are many churches that offer college ministries. The difference is that they don't call themselves student organizations and affiliate themselves with one particular college. This is very unusual.

Linda, very good!

WOW!!!!!!!  Even today, right now, the slipperiness of this type of lie deceives us even as we look right at it.

Folks, a student organization is a group of students that have organized themselves into a club or ministry.  The members of the student organization are 19 to 22 years old.  Outside organizations, like churches, may lend support (e.g. resources, time, money) to help the students, but the students own and run the student organization, setting their own agendas and priorities and are not "directed" or "controlled" by non-students.

A church is an independent organization that is goverened not by students, but by pastors, and is designed to train families, senior citizens, and people from all walks of life in the spiritual matter of following Christ. 

If a church is "directing" a student organization, the student organization is a sham, for it is nothing more than a branch of the church. 

If a student organization is conducting Sunday Morning worship services for an entire church, the student organization is a sham, a thin veil of lies, to cover the fact that the student organization is nothing more than a church.

The lines are not really so blurry as those who are practiced in deceipt would have us believe.

How is God honored when we cannot even admit that a church is a church?
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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2009, 09:28:49 am »

This is how GCx works. They operate in deception, but are convinced it is biblical and that they are not being deceptive. Look at the bait and switch they pull on new members. Look at their ability to "skim over" and makes excused for their history while at the same time referring to their 1991 apology as proof of their repentance. Look at their history of name changes and the "non-denominational" tag they apply to their churches. These people are so turned around in legalistic wrangling and mental justification that they cannot see what is obvious to those outside the movement.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2009, 11:17:21 am »

It seems like we started this discussion because a parent said her son had become involved in a GCx student group and his grades had dropped. What should she do? A good question, but we got sidetracked by other questions. 

So here is my $0.02 for the parents.

1. Call the pastor of the GCx church. That should be OK because a couple of people have said this particular leader is a good, humble person. You don't have to argue theology with him. Just stick to the problem: My son's grades are suffering because he is spending so much time on church activities. Is this OK with you? Do you think this is a good witness for the gospel and for your church? (That one will probably get his attention.) Are you aware of what the 1991 Apology Statement said about education? Will you do something about it?

If you have truckloads of money, you can skip the next one. If you are like most folks and can only pay for one college education for your son, then:
2. Talk to your son. Explain your concern about his grades suffering because of church activities. Maybe he will agree with you, and cut back on church activities and get his grades up. If so, great. OTOH, he may insist he needs to go to lots of meetings, go door-knocking in the dorms, pass out tracts on campus, go to weekend conferences, go on mission trips, etc., and if the grades tank that is just the price of following God. Then tell him he is a grown-up  and can make that decision for himself. But that is NOT what his college money is for. He will have to earn his own way. When he is serious about school again, the money for school will still be there (we hope).


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ANobody
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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2009, 12:39:51 pm »

Quote from: MidnightRider
It seems like we started this discussion because a parent said her son had become involved in a GCx student group and his grades had dropped. What should she do? A good question, but we got sidetracked by other questions. 

Good reminder.  But I think it is good that this advice is being placed into a context of urgency.  GC is not some ordinary church or mainline youth group that simply takes up too much time if one is not self-controlled.  GC is a denomination that at its heart is deceptive and self-delluded, and raises up zealots that are equally deceived, deceptive, and imbalanced with regard to the Christian life. 

This young man will some day wake up and say, "Where did I go wrong in my life?  What was I thinking?  Why did no one save me from this abuse, and from my abuse toward others?"  I, for one, would like this young man's mother to impose her strongest tool:  the biblical right to command her son to dissassociate with this abberant off-shoot of Christianity. 

GC, as a denomination, may preach the gospel of Christ, but it fails to live the gospel of Christ.  The leaders are not self-sacrificing toward the flock, they are not humble servants of the flock, and they teach Christian men how to twist the Word of God and to lie without feeling guilty.  These are harmful behaviors.  This is not an ordinary church, for it is extraordinarily ingorant of how to do the Word, how to love, and of what servant leadership is all about. 

Mother:  tell your son to run, get out, and go find a Christ-honoring, Christ-loving, and Christ-living church.  If the thinks GC is such a church, his deception is almost complete.  While you may not be able to force your son to do the right thing, you can still give him such a command and rely on God alone to enforce it.
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Linda
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« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2009, 01:36:01 pm »

Quote from: ANobody
If a church is "directing" a student organization, the student organization is a sham, for it is nothing more than a branch of the church.

If a student organization is conducting Sunday Morning worship services for an entire church, the student organization is a sham, a thin veil of lies, to cover the fact that the student organization is nothing more than a church
.

If you go to the U of FL web site, you will find GLC listed as a student organization.
http://www.union.ufl.edu/involvement/search/

If you click on the link for GLC (http://www.union.ufl.edu/involvement/search/orgdetail.asp?org=GATOR+CHRISTIAN+LIFE)you end up here and learn that the purpose of the group as stated is "Provides Christian fellowship through social interaction and group support.".

The GLC student organization page links to the group's web page. That link is a link to the church.
www.gatorchristianlife.com
This is deception.

If I had a student involved in this group, I would contact the University of Florida and ask if a church is allowed to be registered as student organization.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 01:38:22 pm by Linda » Logged

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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2009, 01:37:37 pm »


This young man will some day wake up and say, "Where did I go wrong in my life?  What was I thinking?  Why did no one save me from this abuse, and from my abuse toward others?" 


That's what happened to me.  It practically ruined the first 8 years of my marriage.  It left me with regret and nothing else.  I now approach Christianity first looking for the truth and then "what I can tolerate" and "what doesn't give me flashbacks" and "where I don't feel used."  If you can, get him out.  If you can't, then love him, accept him and be there for him in the same way you would be with an errant son.  

But the deception is important to point out... it's not just a rabbit trail.  It is conclusive proof of HOW GCx operates.  Words mean nothing.  GCx makes a lot of "mistakes."  "Oops, we forgot to change that on the website, etc."  The truth is, they are deliberately being deceptive and that is because they think their message is so important that they don't HAVE to follow man's rules to get it across.  They aren't bound by the same rules as everyone else because they are the only ones who are actually trying to win the "war."

Well, that's wrong.  And quite frankly, it's HURT their message.  Because if we can pick and choose what rules we are going to follow... who's really in charge here?  How do we know they aren't lying to us?  We don't.  They've ruined their credibility for me forever.  They have lied to my face.  I'm done.


I edited this later because I overstated how I feel about Christianity in the negative.  I actually LOVE being a Christian and look for orthodox beliefs, after that I am not tolerant any more of people who insist upon going off the deep end and dragging others (namely children) with them.  That's all.  I've been a little sensitive lately based on a lot of other things going on and I realized that I was really off here!!  So edited.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 08:04:53 am by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2009, 01:39:16 pm »

Quote from: ANobody
If a church is "directing" a student organization, the student organization is a sham, for it is nothing more than a branch of the church.

If a student organization is conducting Sunday Morning worship services for an entire church, the student organization is a sham, a thin veil of lies, to cover the fact that the student organization is nothing more than a church
.

If you go to the U of FL web site, you will find GLC listed as a student organization.
http://www.union.ufl.edu/involvement/search/

If you click on the link for GLC (http://www.union.ufl.edu/involvement/search/orgdetail.asp?org=GATOR+CHRISTIAN+LIFE)you end up here and learn that the purpose of the group as stated is "Provides Christian fellowship through social interaction and group support.".

The GLC student organization page links to the group's web page. That link is a link to the church.
www.gatorchristianlife.com
This is deception.

If I had a student involved in this group, I would contact the University of Florida and ask if a church is allowed to be registered as student organization.


I think that sounds like a job for Supergirl... you know who that is, L!  Smiley
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2009, 02:08:03 pm »

Good reminder.  But I think it is good that this advice is being placed into a context of urgency.  GC is not some ordinary church or mainline youth group that simply takes up too much time if one is not self-controlled.  GC is a denomination that at its heart is deceptive and self-delluded, and raises up zealots that are equally deceived, deceptive, and imbalanced with regard to the Christian life. 

This young man will some day wake up and say, "Where did I go wrong in my life?  What was I thinking?  Why did no one save me from this abuse, and from my abuse toward others?"  I, for one, would like this young man's mother to impose her strongest tool:  the biblical right to command her son to dissassociate with this abberant off-shoot of Christianity. 

GC, as a denomination, may preach the gospel of Christ, but it fails to live the gospel of Christ.  The leaders are not self-sacrificing toward the flock, they are not humble servants of the flock, and they teach Christian men how to twist the Word of God and to lie without feeling guilty.  These are harmful behaviors.  This is not an ordinary church, for it is extraordinarily ingorant of how to do the Word, how to love, and of what servant leadership is all about. 

Mother:  tell your son to run, get out, and go find a Christ-honoring, Christ-loving, and Christ-living church.  If the thinks GC is such a church, his deception is almost complete.  While you may not be able to force your son to do the right thing, you can still give him such a command and rely on God alone to enforce it.

ASomebody,

You are right about GCx. I would add that to my list:
3. Do your best to warn your son of the mess he is getting himself into.

You probably know as well as I that Mom's instructions to run for the hills are not likely to have immediate success, and will be interpreted as "persecution" within GCx.

But when that someday comes, I would like for Junior to be able to say, "Where did I go wrong in my life?" and then, "Time to get back to life, starting with some education." That would be better than, "Where did I go wrong in my life?" followed by, "My college money is gone and I have no job skills" (with the possible exception of roofing).


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Linda
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« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2009, 02:11:40 pm »

Quote from: Agatha
I think that sounds like a job for Supergirl... you know who that is, L!
You, right?
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randomous
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« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2009, 03:19:47 pm »

I can't find in this thread where it was about a person's kid's grades dropping.  It looks like they didn't mention any detialslike that at all - did I miss something.
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Linda
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« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2009, 03:28:22 pm »

I can't find them either. I can find my post, addressed to Meedell, on page 2 of this topic. Did Meedell remove them or am I looking in the wrong place? It seems there is only one post by Meedell on the Larry Pile section and it has two words that make no sense. "Do you." What's going on? Puff, did Meedell remove her posts?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 03:31:18 pm by Linda » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2009, 04:38:41 pm »

I can't find in this thread where it was about a person's kid's grades dropping.  It looks like they didn't mention any detialslike that at all - did I miss something.
Maybe I was projecting.   Huh
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randomous
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« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2009, 04:54:24 pm »

A few responses (i covered some others in the new thread)

To reiterate - ANobody, your definition of student organization is not what the universities have.  Did you know that they are also required to have a faculty advisor who signs off on major decisions and is responsible for property damage?  Tidibit: GCL's faculty advisor is an elder who works at the university.

As for the matter of including "church" in the name, that is something many many churches of all sorts are trying to get away from.  It just has a negative connotation and a certain linguistic image.  Churches are seeking other more direct ways of saying who they are or what they're about.  "The Rock" (most churches with this title aren't GC, fyi) or just a one word title like Dayspring or E3 or something.  You can be for or against that, but it's not an issue with GC regardless - lots of GC churches do have church in the name, some don't.

All the ministries and churches that take the opportunity handed to them by universities are simply being wise stewards.  Why waste money on a building when the university is happy to give you one free if you have a minimum number of students?  

I understand you have major problems with GC, but I honestly don't think this is one.  This is the way the game is played by everyone, it is the system that's been put in place.  You can advocate against it if you like, but don't get mad at all the groups that follow th rules.
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ANobody
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« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2009, 05:46:26 pm »

Quote from: Linda
I have read the rules for the U of FL student organizations. They require that the officers in the organization be full time students. I could find nothing about the qualifications of the people attending the meetings (didn't look that hard though). What the rules state is that those leading the group must be full time, in person (not correspondence classes) students. Period.

What that tells me is that GCL is allowed to meet on the campus for their stated purpose, so long as the organization is governed (plans, money decisions) by full time students selected according to the rules set forth in the bylaws (which are required by the U of FL for all student organizations) of said organization. If outside people are making decisions for the student group and not the officers of the student group, then they are misrepresenting the group. This is not a student group, this is a church misrepresenting themselves as a student group. It's called lying.

Linda's quote taken from this thread: http://gcmwarning.com:8080/decomm/general-discussion/pretense-the-church-as-student-organization/

Quote from: randomous
ANobody, your definition of student organization is not what the universities have.  Did you know that they are also required to have a faculty advisor who signs off on major decisions and is responsible for property damage?  Tidibit: GCL's faculty advisor is an elder who works at the university.

As for the matter of including "church" in the name, that is something many many churches of all sorts are trying to get away from.  It just has a negative connotation and a certain linguistic image.  Churches are seeking other more direct ways of saying who they are or what they're about.  "The Rock" (most churches with this title aren't GC, fyi) or just a one word title like Dayspring or E3 or something.  You can be for or against that, but it's not an issue with GC regardless - lots of GC churches do have church in the name, some don't.

All the ministries and churches that take the opportunity handed to them by universities are simply being wise stewards.  Why waste money on a building when the university is happy to give you one free if you have a minimum number of students? 

I understand you have major problems with GC, but I honestly don't think this is one.  This is the way the game is played by everyone, it is the system that's been put in place.  You can advocate against it if you like, but don't get mad at all the groups that follow th rules.

First, thanks Linda.  Having myself worked with university staff on student organizational matters I very well know that what you have said is accurate. 

Second, randomous, you are blowing smoke from the proverbial pipe and think you have found legal technicalities that justify GC's long standing deceptions to student organizations.  You really don't get it, do you?  No one here much cares if you could win a court challenge as to whether a GC'er may or may not use a student resource for church purposes.  What we all care about is whether we have accurately represented WHO we ARE to the students and to the university. 

Pretending that we are a group of students who happened to discover each other while on campus and now desire a campus room for some Sunday morning fellowship, when in truth we are already an entire church from the off-campus community whose pastors have ordered us to acquire a campus room and not to divulge that there is this church tie, that sir, that is deception and not wisdom.

And that is the difference between Campus Crusade establishing a student organization and GC.  Campus Crusade brings its folks on campus, recruits a team of students, and the students establish a student organization, all the while telling the university, "this organization is sponsored by the national organization known as Campus Crusade."  Honesty.  GC came and pretended its church IS the student organization and tried to hide the name of the real church and the name of the denomination it was connected to.  Deception.

Randomous, play all day long with your rationales, if it pleases you to do so.  But, if you start a student organization and do not disclose to those whom you recruit into it that it is really a church with overseeing pastors that control all decisions, then you have lied and deceived.  By any name.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 07:15:18 pm by ANobody » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2009, 09:19:35 pm »

 
Quote from: randomous
Did you know that they are also required to have a faculty adviser who signs off on major decisions and is responsible for property damage?  Tidbit: GCL's faculty adviser is an elder who works at the university.
Yes, I knew that. Actually, I didn't know they had to take responsibility for property damage. Yikes, who would want to do that! The fact that the faculty adviser is an elder in a GC shouldn't be an issue as long as his "advising" capacity doesn't involve his eldership in a GC church. He is advising a student campus group and as such his role is not elder, but campus group faculty adviser. His title of elder would not come into play if the group is abiding by the rules of student groups on campus. The officers of the group are in charge. Not the adviser who happens to be an elder in a local church.

The tricky bit, of course, is that the student group IS a local church. Hmmmm. How does that work now? Let's see, in a GC church, the elders make all the decisions. So, unless the elders are all full time students (perhaps they are, I can't find a list of the elders) and officers of the student organization, there is something fishy going on.

Quote from: randomous
As for the matter of including "church" in the name, that is something many many churches of all sorts are trying to get away from.
Well, I'm not into church "marketing". Don't agree with it. Jesus doesn't need me to make him look good (as if I could do that anyway). But, my point wasn't so much that they are a church that doesn't have the word "church" in their name. My point was that they are a CHURCH disguising themselves as a student organization and don't want to call themselves a church.

Really, have you ever been to the web site of a church that lists it's officers and staff, but not the pastors? Kinda strange and you have to wonder why that is.

Quote from: randomous
All the ministries and churches that take the opportunity handed to them by universities are simply being wise stewards.  Why waste money on a building when the university is happy to give you one free if you have a minimum number of students?
Are you saying that if I were to call up the student ministries department at the U of FL and ask them if non-student elder led churches are allowed to present themselves as "student organizations" as long as they have some nominal "officers" who are students, but don't make the decisions for the group that the U of FL would say, "No problem"?

Why wouldn't every church in town be signing up as a "student organization" for the free facilities to be "good stewards"?

When in doubt, I always say, follow the $$$. So, financially, if someone writes a tithe check to GLC do they get a tax deductible receipt? Is it from a church or a student organization? Can student organizations even give tax deductible receipts? Who controls the money, the elders or the officers of the student organization? Who makes the decisions regarding events, worship music, Bible teaching--the elders or the officers. If the answer is that the elders have the control, then this is NOT a student organization.

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« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2009, 09:24:55 pm »

It seems you, ANobody, may have some bone to pick with a specific GC church.  As a result, you're generalizing and saying "GC that" and "GC this" and so on.  There isn't uniformity here though, within GC.  There are a few who meet on campus, but those are in the minority.  Each of those that do make their own decisions - there's no direction from above or guidebook.  The situation is fluid at each campus as each church changes and each university changes.  GCL for example, the original topic, was once a campus church and then a community church and then a campus church again.  

Again, I don't know what happened at yours.  At GCL, everybody who comes in knows it's part of a church.  Again, it is part of a local church with a different name, but they share that one weekly meeting.  Small groups and tithing are therough the church, sunday morning and on campus events are some mixture that's mainly student.  Students run the service, direct it, plan it, etc.

This is for Linda as well - you make a jump that isn't there in saying that the officers must be students, therefore the ones making the ultimate decisions must be students.  It's true to an extent, but there's an extent to which it isn't.  Officers are responsible for planning events at the university and dealing wit the administration.  If there is ever money from the university, which is very rare, they are responsible for that.  

What you're doing is saying if they lead this part, they must lead the whole thing.  That's not the case with any group.  Just because crusade has officers that lead crusade, doesn't mean that the staff shouldn't be planning.  That's what the Crusade staff do, and the staff of each religious group, and the pastors of the churches whose campus ministries are registered as groups.  It isn't different.  The ultimate planners are non-students in all those cases;  in every case, including GCL, students could ultimately take over and keep the student group and name if they ever wanted to.  

GCL has the name of their association both in the constitution given to the university and on the website.  Remember it is a beta website - very much transitional, there's not some master plan as to whether officers or elders or both will be on the website.  If you think both, fine, let them know.  Neither was there when I was there - officers are more important recently because of the controversy between the university and Christian groups in general at the school that just ended, which is why i suspect the officers were put on there.  Almost all  organizations, if you'll take some public administration or public organization theory courses, just "muddle through" and do what is most needed at the time.  You have plenty of time to sit and criticize, but they're actually doing something.  If you have an improvement let them know, but this conspiracy garbage is a little absurd.  

Nobody pretends that it is a student group that just formed.  The main reason each one has a different name is the national name just sucks, linguistically.  It's long, hard to say, and not very memorable.  if you'll look at most churches with conventional names, their college groups are very rarely "First Baptist College Students" or anything like that.   It's natural.
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« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2009, 09:27:09 pm »

The tricky bit, of course, is that the student group IS a local church.

Really, have you ever been to the web site of a church that lists it's officers and staff, but not the pastors? Kinda strange and you have to wonder why that is.

Are you saying that if I were to call up the student ministries department at the U of FL and ask them if non-student elder led churches are allowed to present themselves as "student organizations" as long as they have some nominal "officers" who are students, but don't make the decisions for the group that the U of FL would say, "No problem"?

Why wouldn't every church in town be signing up as a "student organization" for the free facilities to be "good stewards"?

When in doubt, I always say, follow the $$$. So, financially, if someone writes a tithe check to GLC do they get a tax deductible receipt? Is it from a church or a student organization? Can student organizations even give tax deductible receipts? Who controls the money, the elders or the officers of the student organization? Who makes the decisions regarding events, worship music, Bible teaching--the elders or the officers. If the answer is that the elders have the control, then this is NOT a student organization.

A lot of good questions here.

1.  Again, the student group is not a church.  They are different.  The student group is one ministry of the local church.  small groups are another. 

2.  The reason is administrative oversight for the officers on the web page - see previous post.  the website though, is for the student group, which while it is a part of the church, is not specifically led by the elders.

3.  Again, it's not a church presenting itself as a student organization.  Like the rest of the groups on campus, it's a part of the church/national group/whatever.

4.  I believe the main reasons other churches don't do it is because they like having buildings.  I know a lot that meet in elementary schools or high schools, which is also really good stewardship.  It is a lot harder though - generally ou have to do a lot of physical work each week to set up, and you might not have a class for each sunday school room.  It's easier financially, but harder on time.

5.  Yes the money.  GCL is a separate entity from the local church (which has a different name, irrelevant).  So tithes are made to that church, which is tax-deductible and registered with the IRS and all that.  GCL, the student group, sometimes gets money from the student government for certain events - this money never enters the church's coffers or any staff or elders or anything. 

6.  Decisions - events mostly decided by officers, sunday service directed by students, teaching is by elders (very few campus ministries have students teach on a regular basis).  Students take responsibility for the operation of anything on campus.   Honestly though, let's take an example outside GC.  First Baspiterian Church of Gville has a college ministry, led by a paid college minister.  FBC has that group register so it can meet on campus.  There's a cooler name it registers by, Christians in Action (CIA).  CIA does everything in conjunction with FBC; the FBC college minister speaks at their group.  What is the problem here?  It's the exact same situation as is going on at GCL.  It's a situation that universities recognize, so that they include a place at the university for campus ministers and an official ID for them.  How is that not upfront?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 09:41:52 pm by randomous » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2009, 10:37:21 pm »

Thanks for answering my questions. One of the most frustrating aspects of our GC experience was the wasted time. We spend many hours over many months trying to get answers only having to go back later and meet yet again because we learned something new that no one had bothered to mention before that was relevant to our concerns. Sometimes answers can be technically correct, but misleading. It is a reason why I keep asking questions which to some might sound "nit picky" and I do appreciate your answering them. Maybe I will post about some of the ways we were misled by the "technical" truth sometime.

Anyway, thanks for answering.

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Again, the student group is not a church.
Then why is GCL listed as a GCC church on the GCC web page? http://www.gccweb.org/gcc/ministries/dir_commun.aspAnd why is "Cypress Church of Gainesville-Gator Christian Life" listed as a campus ministry on the GCC web page? http://www.gccweb.org/gcc/ministries/dir_campus.asp

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the website though, is for the student group,
Then why does the link on the GCC church page take you to the web page? And, are the pastors listed anywhere? Seems odd to have a big fancy web page for a student group and have things like "Church-wide Prayer Meeting" and "GCL Sunday Service" and 40 Days of Prayer meetings that are led by a Pastor who is not mentioned anywhere else, but officers and staff are listed.

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it's not a church presenting itself as a student organization.
See above paragraph on the web page. I am reminded of the saying, "When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."

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I believe the main reasons other churches don't do it is because they like having buildings.
I know a lot of churches that meet in schools and pay a big chunk of rent. Do you mean to tell me that if they found a couple of students to become "officers" they could meet on campus for free? I really don't think so. The proof of that would be for someone to contact the U of FL and ask the question.

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CIA does everything in conjunction with FBC; the FBC college minister speaks at their group.  What is the problem here?  It's the exact same situation as is going on at GCL.
So you are telling me that FBC has it's Sunday Services on the campus? If they do, you are correct it would be the same situation.

However, if what you mean by having the college minister come on campus is that he leads a Bible study during the week for students or leads a prayer meeting every Friday morning, then, no, it's not the same thing. That is just a campus organization inviting in a guest speaker. In this case, CIA and FBC are two distinct groups with two distinct sets of bylaws.






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« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2009, 10:51:44 pm »

I'm waiting for a middle of the night phone call from London, so am killing time online. Look what I found on the GCL web page:
Quote
Gator Christian Life is a college church run by college students. No matter what you are interested in or gifted at doing, there is a ministry opportunity for you. If you see one of the following opportunities that you are interested in, get in touch with the contact person.
It was buried in the activities section. They say they are a church and they are run by college students.

My questions are:
1) Is Gator Christian Life a church? Yes or no.

2) Is Gator Christian Life run by students? Yes or no.

Somehow I think the answer to question #2 will be "yes" with a clarification of what the word "run" means!
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