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September 23, 2018, 03:01:44 am *
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Author Topic: Downtown Church in Des Moines  (Read 27982 times)
EverAStudent
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« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2014, 08:38:33 pm »

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There are several teachings that are repeatedly butchered there- the sower and the seed is one. Basically- just start spreading seed and mathematically 25 % will know God and stay with Him. Where to begin?

Yes, GC pastors have so frequently misunderstood this passage of the sower.  argggg!!!!!  Well said Mary7.

The multiplication of the fruit is NOT a euphemism for numbers of converts but rather the fruit is a metaphor for "fruits of the Spirit" within only those who do believe.  The gospel causes changes, it causes the fruit of the Spirit to grow.  The parable is saying that those who believe grow spiritually far beyond what they were capable of before they got saved. 

The parable is NOT about exponential evangelistic growth!!!!!  It is about your kindness or love or faith growing by 30 times, or 60 times, or 100 times! 

Please feel free to reference this sermon (.mp3) beginning at minute 26 and 10 seconds and see how it compares to GC doctrines of the sower: http://thefaithfulword.org/lukec8v1.mp3

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Mary7
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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2014, 09:30:22 pm »

Thank you for your response. I will listen. Even though I knew Christ before going to walnut creek church downtown, I have been surprised by how much my own definitions have gotten skewed. This forum has been so helpful, just to see that all these red flags are not my imagination. I think I thought if I'd stay just a little longer, then the atmosphere of fear and performance would change. When did you all realize you weren't going to be an agent of change, grace, truth? Did you leave right away or did you drag your heels, just hoping you didn't have to leave?
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EverAStudent
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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2014, 09:41:47 pm »

Greetings and welcome, Mary7.

I would like to be a bit picky on your question, "When did you all realize you weren't going to be an agent of change, grace, truth?"

In fact, I think we are always agents of grace and truth.  No exceptions.  Such is the calling of the Christian and his walk throughout Scripture.

Pragmatically however, we can not always be agents of change inside of institutions like GC.  I realized within a year or two that the GC hierarchy had constructed unassailable barriers to change agents that might arise from within the ranks of the congregations.  These barriers included denominational policies, improper use of Scripture, seminars, scare tactics, and lack of access to fellowship within the inner circles of power. 

Having seen many of the biblical errors GC propounded and their resistance to change, it still took me another three years to make the case to myself and to my wife that leaving was our only remaining biblical option. 
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margaret
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« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2018, 05:58:00 am »

Thank you for your response. I will listen. Even though I knew Christ before going to walnut creek church downtown, I have been surprised by how much my own definitions have gotten skewed. This forum has been so helpful, just to see that all these red flags are not my imagination. I think I thought if I'd stay just a little longer, then the atmosphere of fear and performance would change. When did you all realize you weren't going to be an agent of change, grace, truth? Did you leave right away or did you drag your heels, just hoping you didn't have to leave?

Glancing over this old thread, and ran across this post.

Red Flags. We've all had them. Over time, we toss them aside, then we toss some dirt on them. More flags appear, and someone convinces us that it's our imagination--or our sin, so we toss those aside too.

It's hard to unearth these red flags, especially when there are so many and they are buried so deep. Plus it means that you have to admit that you ignored them for so long and were taken in by a different gospel, so to speak. A message of legalism & conformity, not a message of grace & freedom. Galatians 5.1 says: It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

But eventually it is freeing to recognize them and finally heed them.

Grace to you all.
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