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Author Topic: The Reckoning  (Read 99768 times)
GodisFaithful
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« Reply #240 on: April 05, 2018, 01:42:53 pm »

Agatha,

How is a person supposed to figure out when to question and when to keep your mouth shut and accept that character at the top in the GC structure saves the day? This takes a ton of wisdom and discernment.

I think a person could get in trouble for asking too many questions.
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Linda
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« Reply #241 on: April 05, 2018, 01:46:53 pm »

DLM,

I repeat. Do you know why MD was placed on a leave of absence in the mid-90's? I would guess Spring of '96 or '97. It was for a few months. You were there then. Did you ever know why or wonder why?
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #242 on: April 05, 2018, 01:52:38 pm »

Agatha,

How is a person supposed to figure out when to question and when to keep your mouth shut and accept that character at the top in the GC structure saves the day? This takes a ton of wisdom and discernment.

I think a person could get in trouble for asking too many questions.



And if you're friends with the person being questioned, it can feel like an attack or betrayal to that person.  And I don't know about you, but I hate hurting people's feelings or making them feel like I don't trust them.  My usual method is ignore, explain, trust.  I don't ever want someone to feel like I think they are outright dishonest.  I mean, I really like to give people the benefit of the doubt.  

Well, I guess this is a question for God Trumps All and Digital Lynch Mob.  (Sorry, I know DLM has a small list of questions when he/she logs back in)


How does a member or former member go about making sure allegations (or really any issue that might pertain to said people for that matter) is properly addressed?
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #243 on: April 05, 2018, 02:22:46 pm »

Linda, I was there, but I don't know.

Agatha, I guess it would depend on the gravity of the issue. Whenever I've had an issue I addressed it with the pastor in question. But these were things like clarity or disagreement on a theological point in GCLI or a point made from the pulpit - not things like accusations of abuse.

I know there is great angst among some here on the structure of leadership in GCC. I frankly, take heart in knowing with a plurality of pastors, comes accountability. There are many churches with a strong leading pastor (or just one pastor) where the wheels have come off for lack of peer-level accountability. I would literally bet my life on the fact that Suzanne's claim of a cover up by multiple pastors is absolutely not true.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #244 on: April 05, 2018, 02:32:59 pm »


Ugh, I need to run and I've been so busy this week, I want to stay and chat but I can't.  But really quick before I go.


I know I'm stepping into Linda's question, but do you happen to recall what reason was given (and again, maybe it was like appendicitis or gallbladder or whatever, seriously not trying to paint anyone in a bad light here) for MD stepping down for the time being?  Do you remember the length of time? 


Thanks for your quick answer earlier on my bonus question in Linda's thread: DLM, that makes a lot of sense about the gravity of the situation being different for different kinds of responses/questions. 
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #245 on: April 05, 2018, 03:22:24 pm »

*shakes head*

My dad has never been placed on a leave of absence

Another slanderous lie
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Linda
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« Reply #246 on: April 05, 2018, 03:23:49 pm »

Quote from: DLM
I would literally bet my life on the fact that Suzanne's claim of a cover up by multiple pastors is absolutely not true.

What if it is shown that the plurality of elders system actually allowed for a cover up of sin on the part of an elder? Honest question.

Also, I'm really trying to process things here and wondering if the operating assumption on the part of the MD defenders is that Suzanne is making this up (either on purpose or she is delusional) and there are no other victims. Do people believe she is inventing victims?
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Linda
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« Reply #247 on: April 05, 2018, 03:29:29 pm »

Quote from: jeromydaviddarling
My dad has never been placed on a leave of absence

Well, I remember it. I am not lying. So don't call me a slanderer.

I actually didn't assume it was anything scandalous, but it was odd. We had just started attending ECC in the late summer of 1995 and it seemed funny that that a main pastor would take a few months off and no one would say why.

Anyone else remember the leave of absence in the 90's?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 06:34:21 pm by Linda » Logged

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Linda
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« Reply #248 on: April 05, 2018, 03:38:24 pm »

DLM, So you are saying that Suzanne is making up victims. Am I hearing you correctly?
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araignee19
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« Reply #249 on: April 05, 2018, 03:40:49 pm »

What new attack? Are there new allegations? New information? Sorry, I've seen two people mention something so want to get clarification.
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #250 on: April 05, 2018, 03:44:07 pm »

I'm saying she completely changed her story as to the nature of the "abuse." She also stated there were 7 others, then 2 and then 1. So...

The new attack I referenced was her social media attack beginning in January referencing back to 18 years ago.
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Huldah
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« Reply #251 on: April 05, 2018, 03:49:39 pm »

Linda, I was there, but I don't know.
Please let me understand you correctly. You're confirming that Mark was indeed placed on a leave of absence at that time? Is that correct?
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Linda
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« Reply #252 on: April 05, 2018, 03:52:52 pm »

Quote from: DLM
I'm saying she completely changed her story as to the nature of the "abuse."

When did she change her story?

Quote from: DLM
She also stated there were 7 others, then 2 and then 1. So...

When did she say the number had gone from 7 to 1?



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Huldah
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« Reply #253 on: April 05, 2018, 03:58:35 pm »

Sorry, I know this question was addressed to DLM, but my understanding was: seven victims in total, two of whom gave permission to share their written stories, and one of whom had chosen to cooperate with the BOT's investigation.
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #254 on: April 05, 2018, 03:58:48 pm »

Quote from: DLM
I'm saying she completely changed her story as to the nature of the "abuse."

When did she change her story?

Quote from: DLM
She also stated there were 7 others, then 2 and then 1. So...

When did she say the number had gone from 7 to 1?

Her story changed from one of spiritual abuse to sexual abuse - 18 years after the fact. She posted on FB that there were 7 other "victims." Later she said 1 other "victim" was talking to the investigator.


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Linda
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« Reply #255 on: April 05, 2018, 04:15:25 pm »

Quote from: DLM
Her story changed from one of spiritual abuse to sexual abuse - 18 years after the fact. She posted on FB that there were 7 other "victims." Later she said 1 other "victim" was talking to the investigator.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Suzanne never changed her charge from spiritual abuse to sexual abuse. Her story has remained consistent.

On the other hand, ECC referenced sexual abuse (that's what #metoo abuse refers to) in their first tweet in response to Suzanne's #metoo abuse claim, that she had been fully heard on the matter of #metoo abuse. Later, they said she had not mentioned sexual abuse at that meeting 18 years ago, but rather only spiritual abuse.

The fact that 1 victim was talking to the investigator doesn't mean the number has changed. It could mean that only 1 victim was comfortable speaking with the investigator. This is why there needs to be a safe place for these women to tell their stories. An employment law attorney hired by the ECC BOT to represent ECC with no transparency is not the way to go about this. If MD/ECC have nothing to hide, they will do the right thing and find someone to investigate who has an interest in the truth and not an interest in representing one party in a dispute.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 04:31:14 pm by Linda » Logged

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searching
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« Reply #256 on: April 05, 2018, 04:18:35 pm »

Quote from: DLM
I would literally bet my life on the fact that Suzanne's claim of a cover up by multiple pastors is absolutely not true.

What if it is shown that the plurality of elders system actually allowed for a cover up of sin on the part of an elder? Honest question.

Also, I'm really trying to process things here and wondering if the operating assumption on the part of the MD defenders is that Suzanne is making this up (either on purpose or she is delusional) and there are no other victims. Do people believe she is inventing victims?


Suzanne made accusations in the realm of Spiritual abuse 18 years ago not sexual abuse. This is a fact. She recently said there were 7 other victims but only released alleged statements by 2 unnamed people then said really only 1 victim would talk to the investigator. The timing of this new attack coincides with the exact timing of the pain of her divorcing John. Yes, I think she is deeply troubled and for whatever reason wants to hurt others.

DLM,

I assume you know Suzanne very well to know that the accusations "coincide with the exact timing of the pain of her divorcing John". So you know the details of her divorce? And honestly what does that have to do with anything?

Linda, I do remember MD taking a leave and as you, I do not remember why. Honestly, I remember many of the pastors at ECC taking sabbaticals for months at a time. Was Mark on leave or sabatical?
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HughHoney
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« Reply #257 on: April 05, 2018, 04:20:51 pm »

I do!  If I were in trouble, I'd appreciate having a friend like you in my corner.  Not gonna lie.

Not me. I’d be saying, “quit making me look bad in public, homie” and try to get some better talent on the forum defense team
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Linda
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« Reply #258 on: April 05, 2018, 04:29:54 pm »

Quote from: searching
Was Mark on leave or sabatical?

They wouldn't tell us why was the odd thing. My guess would be that if it was a sabbatical they would not have withheld the reason.

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searching
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« Reply #259 on: April 05, 2018, 04:32:41 pm »

Quote from: searching
Was Mark on leave or sabatical?

They wouldn't tell us why was the odd thing. My guess would be that if it was a sabbatical they would not have withheld the reason.



Ageed.
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