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Author Topic: This still isn't okay Suzanne van Dyck  (Read 30217 times)
Greentruth
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2018, 09:31:06 am »

Something that seems to keep getting lost in why itís all but impossible to wrap my mind around what Suzanne accused MD of, besides all the inconsistencies, is the character and fruit we all have whiteness from MD and Suzanne. I have known a pastor who sexually abused my wife in the small Church we attended, and several other people who sexually abused women, and children. In EVERY case I saw these peopleís lives, and they all came tumbling down. Families fall apart, addiction runs rampant, and even a few ending in horrible suicide. You just simply can not ignore this. No one can live years with this type of guilt, and people not see the consequences. Especially close family. Itís absurd to ignore, and quite frankly quite telling of some here.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2018, 09:56:58 am »

So you all believe that all sexual harassers and abusers are clearly seen and their lives always look terrible.


I guess victims must always be blind or stupid then to get sucked in by them, since its always so obvious.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 09:58:30 am by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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Greentruth
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2018, 10:12:46 am »

So you all believe that all sexual harassers and abusers are clearly seen and their lives always look terrible.


I guess victims must always be blind or stupid then to get sucked in by them, since its always so obvious.



There are a lot of jerks that slide by, but they are obvious and the non fruit of their lives is obvious. MD life and fruit give absolutely no evidence of reality in the accusations.

And unfortunately some victims go from one abusive relationship to another. I went into a home to help remove a friends sister who wouldnít or couldnít get herself out of the relationship. We had to basically threaten the jerk to back off.  Your words, not mine, are very harsh and rude to those abused
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2018, 11:13:19 am »

So you all believe that all sexual harassers and abusers are clearly seen and their lives always look terrible.


I guess victims must always be blind or stupid then to get sucked in by them, since its always so obvious.



There are a lot of jerks that slide by, but they are obvious and the non fruit of their lives is obvious. MD life and fruit give absolutely no evidence of reality in the accusations.

And unfortunately some victims go from one abusive relationship to another. I went into a home to help remove a friends sister who wouldnít or couldnít get herself out of the relationship. We had to basically threaten the jerk to back off.  Your words, not mine, are very harsh and rude to those abused



This is not even close to true all of the time.  Abuse and harassment are not always obvious.  Perps are not always awful people.  And victims are not always wounded vulnerable people or willfully ignorant.


Iím sure you guys mean well, but this is simply not true and it does a real disservice to perpetuate myths like this.
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Greentruth
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2018, 11:43:13 am »

Agatha?  I have seen or been exposed to many issues personally,and on the outside looking in, that are similar to what Suzanne accused. Not once have I ever seen or heard of a situation to this extent with such an unbalanced view. You would have to purposely be ignoring what is self evident, or purposely be trying to falsely accuse MD and the Church for reasons that look to be constituent with this form. If this whole issue of MD supposedly abusing seven or eight women,lose count as it changed several times, over a period of several years, it would be unprecedented. And to add that several pastors also where involved in covering this all up without anyone else knowing takes it to the utmost unbelievable point I have ever seen or heard of. Iím just simply stating the facts of what you see looking at this from the outside. I believe that is why this is being
Played out as it has on social media and this form, where it is so easy to caterwauling and manipulating any defense for those accused. No structured system, which is afforded the common citizens of this country would ever have allowed such demeaning with what evidence is being seen at this point.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2018, 11:53:49 am »

Iím not speaking to MD as Iíve stated numerous times here. Please donít try to say that I am.  Iím saying that simply because someoneís life looks good on the outside doesnít mean it really is.


Character witness gives some great input but it doesnít negate the possibility of allegations being true.  This is true in any kind of dysfunction.  People can hide things or convince themselves itís okay.  Heck, sometimes bad things start with well meaning behaviors.

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Greentruth
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2018, 12:15:48 pm »

Iím not speaking to MD as Iíve stated numerous times here. Please donít try to say that I am.  Iím saying that simply because someoneís life looks good on the outside doesnít mean it really is.


Character witness gives some great input but it doesnít negate the possibility of allegations being true.  This is true in any kind of dysfunction.  People can hide things or convince themselves itís okay.  Heck, sometimes bad things start with well meaning behaviors.


Agreed, but my goodness, the extent of the accusations goes volumes past reasonable assumption. I could see where MD could have voiced something in the way of encouragement or even rebuke that could have been taken as negative, as I have had that happen to me. One reason itís getting to where our pastorís in all our churches are under constant attack. Our pastor shared awhile back, just teaching the Bible will quite possibly land them in jail. Example, refusing to perform gay marriage, or any numerous amount of possible issues that are happening today in THIS country. The Bible does warnof these days, not saying they are here, or that this issue with Suzanne is related.
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Linda
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2018, 07:49:49 am »

Thanks for the head's up on Jeromy's delete. I had private messaged him about it a month ago on March 11th letting him know that someone had asked me if it was true and he said he was going to take care of it. Glad he finally did.
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araignee19
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2018, 11:08:38 am »

I think I probably speak for most here when I say I firmly believe Suzanne has an obligation to do everything she can to correct this. I hope she is trying. Regardless of whether what she did was intentional or just an honest, naive mistake, now she should fix it proactively. It would give a lot of credibility to her saying it was an honest mistake if she does everything she can to correct it.  And I personally do agree she owes Mark and his family an apology for that one, regardless of her intentions. Not sure how easy this all is to do (I for one have never used twitter), but it needs to be done to the fullest extent possible, and quickly (faster than Jeremy fixed his problematic tweet).
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Linda
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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2018, 11:13:06 am »

I just messaged Dee at Warburg Watch and asked her if she would retweet Suzanne's correction Tweet to her many followers. We shall see if she does.

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Linda
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2018, 02:17:44 pm »

Dee just contacted me. Sounds like she will correct.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2018, 06:47:44 am »

GTA, you are welcome to contact Scout via My Messages on this forum.  You could PM her on Facebook.  You could DM her on Twitter.  You could report the tweet.  You could also contact GRACE yourself, show them Suzanne's correction and ask them to remove the comment--they can be reached via e-mail, Facebook Messenger, or Twitter DM.  Maybe even a phone call to GRACE if you feel so strongly.
 

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Peace
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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2018, 06:58:29 am »

GTA, you are welcome to contact Scout via My Messages on this forum.  You could PM her on Facebook.  You could DM her on Twitter.  You could report the tweet.  You could also contact GRACE yourself, show them Suzanne's correction and ask them to remove the comment--they can be reached via e-mail, Facebook Messenger, or Twitter DM.  Maybe even a phone call to GRACE if you feel so strongly

I wish people on this forum would use this method at reaching out to the people who have harmed them or the pastors/leaders who need to be corrected. Personally, it has blessed me greatly when I have received a heartfelt message (even via Facebook) where a real discussion has been able to take place and true healing/correction has been made.
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Linda
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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2018, 07:48:09 am »

Quote
Why is Linda so involved in this

I was trying to help you guys out because you couldnít seem to figure that out and kept complaining. Rebel has some great ideas. You should try them.
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Peace
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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2018, 07:57:45 am »

Isnít this the very same thought process you are so critical of?

- Bad teaching shouldnít be apologized for, it should be corrected.
- It should be corrected by following steps a,b,c...
- We arenít bitter or just complaining! We are trying to warn/correct bad teaching.

Am I the only one that sees the double-standards??
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 08:21:12 am by Peace » Logged
G_Prince
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« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2018, 08:26:59 am »

Isnít this the very same thought process you are so critical of?

- Bad teaching shouldnít be apologized for, it should be corrected.
- It should be corrected by following steps a,b,c...
- We arenít bitter or just complaining! We are trying to warn/correct bad teaching.

Am I the only one that sees the double-standards??

You're right. A mistweet that took a week to correct is certainly equivalent to decades of abusive church behavior, including alleged sexual abuse.  Roll Eyes 
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
araignee19
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« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2018, 08:27:11 am »

You guys are simultaneously criticizing Linda for taking the lead on getting this corrected, and at the same time  saying that it is this forum's responsibility go proactively fight to correct this. Please pick one and at least be consistent.

It has been made clear many people on this forum do agree Suzanne needs to correct this. I for one am very bothered that she had not yet, and have called for her to act. So has Linda. And others. The forum moderator removed the references to this tweet that they had control of. Technically we did what we could. So continuing to complain here that it is still up: what are you wanting to see happen from that?
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Peace
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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2018, 08:43:27 am »

G_Prince - Where did I mention anything about abuse? The correlation is in the mistake/false teaching/need for correction.

araignee19 - I have been thoroughly impressed by your response to all of this. I believe we are on the same page.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2018, 09:01:57 am »

G_Prince - Where did I mention anything about abuse? The correlation is in the mistake/false teaching/need for correction.

araignee19 - I have been thoroughly impressed by your response to all of this. I believe we are on the same page.

False teachings are abusive. That is the entire point of this forum. You seem to be claiming that Suzanne's tweet (which she has corrected) is somehow equivalent to decades of false teaching that have facilitated abusive/manipulative behavior from church members and leaders alike.

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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Peace
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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2018, 09:15:51 am »

No. My post was a response to Linda's post and her clearly expressed desire to call out false teaching and her demands to have it corrected it quickly, publicly and extensively. I am thankful she has reached out to Suzanne and Dee, but it appears that is never good enough when GCx attempts to remove a bad teaching, apologize for it or correct it. I am just trying to point out how high Linda's expectations are and challenge the attainability or reality of anyone ever being able to meet them.

I am not correlating anything to abuse. I believe spiritual abuse is real, but is not always correlated to false teaching. Do you believe other world religions to be false teachings? If so, you'd be implying that they are all inherently abusive. Which I do not think they are unless your definition for abuse is VERY expansive.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 09:42:02 am by Peace » Logged
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