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Author Topic: This still isn't okay Suzanne van Dyck  (Read 30216 times)
G_Prince
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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2018, 09:57:37 am »

No. My post was a response to Linda's post and her clearly expressed desire to call out false teaching and her demands to have it corrected it quickly, publicly and extensively. I am thankful she has reached out to Suzanne and Dee, but it appears that is never good enough when GCx attempts to remove a bad teaching, apologize for it or correct it. I am just trying to point out how high Linda's expectations are and challenge the attainability or reality of anyone ever being able to meet them.

I am not correlating anything to abuse. I believe spiritual abuse is real, but is not always correlated to false teaching. Do you believe other world religions to be false teachings? If so, you'd be implying that they are all inherently abusive. Which I do not think they are unless your definition for abuse is VERY expansive.

A tweet is not a teaching. You are still creating a false equivalence here. Also I don't see how ECC has attempted to remove, apologize, or correct bad teachings in their past; rather, they seem pretty dismissive of anyone who has called them out. Linda's "high expectations" of church behavior should be commended not dismissed.  

I don't have enough knowledge/experience of other religions to claim false teaching/abuse. I have spent a great deal of my life in GCx though and have seen first-hand how bad teachings engender abuse. That's why I'm participating here and not buddhismwarning.com
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Peace
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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2018, 10:18:48 am »

I will agree that a tweet is not the same thing as a teaching. Those are not equal.

But I think the damage made by making an unintentional tweet about someone being a child abuser is very much as damaging as a pastor unintentionally placing unbalanced emphasis on unity, commitment, submission etc. I don't think Suzanne is trying to ruin Mark's life (although some would disagree with me) and I also don't think GCx pastors have intentionally tried to ruin anyone's lives. I am not a member at ECC so I cannot speak for the efforts made there, but at my local church, the efforts have been made.

I am no expert, but I believe the basic teachings of the other major world religions have much larger, much more damaging consequences than the theology that is debated fiercely on this forum. I am not condemning or judging anyone who believes differently, but at the core of the gospel is the belief that Jesus is the only way... Therefore any other way would be... false.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 10:37:56 am by Peace » Logged
Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 10:30:22 am »

GTA, I just thought you might like some proactive suggestions rather than coming on the forum every day and bringing up a buried tweet that I couldn't even find while looking for it and that most of us can't do anything about.  If I were Suzanne, I would delete those 2 replies/retweets/whatever they are or explain why they remain.  I am not Suzanne.  I also am not in frequent contact with her.  You seem to consider defending Mark Darling's reputation your responsibility so contacting GRACE would fall under that.  

Your impressions/judgments of me are super funny, by the way.  Keep them coming.


Please explain why in the world do you think this would be my responsibility?  That is just insane.  She said she made a mistake, so she should correct it fully.  I am not on twitter, but from a 30 second google search, I did find that someone should be able to delete their own reply to on someone else's tweet.  

Suzanne does not answer messages that are from any people that are still apart of GCx. I could not PM on fb because she blocked everyone.  And it is not my problem to fix.  It is very obvious that some people on this forum are in frequent contact with her.  If you consider her a friend, and you agreed that she made an innocent mistake, why would her friends not encourage her to fully fix the mistake?  Linda seemed to take care of other areas for Suzanne...she reached out to Dee Parsons.  

Rebel I am saddened that you like to point out that you are in seminary, but show a common lack of decency.  Sad

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Greentruth
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« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2018, 06:42:13 pm »





A tweet is not a teaching. You are still creating a false equivalence here. Also I don't see how ECC has attempted to remove, apologize, or correct bad teachings in their past; rather, they seem pretty dismissive of anyone who has called them out. Linda's "high expectations" of church behavior should be commended not dismissed. 

I don't have enough knowledge/experience of other religions to claim false teaching/abuse. I have spent a great deal of my life in GCx though and have seen first-hand how bad teachings engender abuse. That's why I'm participating here and not buddhismwarning.com
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Of all those who are on this form, you confuse me the most. You claim false teaching made you walk away from your faith. First off, thousands of us didnít have that experince, and to see you and others claim as much to try and manipulate a Church IS false teaching. Second, IF you had been spirit filled, you would STILL be spirit filled. The Only thing I see filling you is bitterness, which is so sad. I canít be around bitter people
Long, as it takes me down. Even before being saved. What Suzanne has done on Twitter is out of bitterness, and the majority who strike out against ECC,do so out of bitterness. I mean to totally give so much of your life to go on and on about claiming a Church told you to commit for life, and you then left, is out of this world to me. ONLY bitterness could strike in this manner. And only the evil one, Satan, could push this, or sustain it. But the real sad fact is, only you who strike out in bitterness will suffer, not knowing peace,as the ones you strike out against have peace through Jesus Christ. I know, that takes commitment. The best commitment I ever made.
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« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2018, 08:15:18 pm »

Personally I'm on here not only because of false teachings, but because of the excommunications and shunning that happen in the Wisconsin churches--Cedarcreek and Coulee Rock.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2018, 08:24:52 pm »

And the pastors tell people who they should and should not marry, gather information about church members through small group leaders, teach that you should obey their counsel even in non-spiritual matters (like where you live and where to work); the pastors try to counsel people rather than refer them to mental health professionals, they hold meetings about members and former staff to criticize them...the teaching just enables all of that because the members think this is normal based on what they are told is in the bible. 
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Boggs
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« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2018, 09:01:47 pm »

Personally I'm on here not only because of false teachings, but because of the excommunications and shunning that happen in the Wisconsin churches--Cedarcreek and Coulee Rock.

And the pastors tell people who they should and should not marry, gather information about church members through small group leaders, teach that you should obey their counsel even in non-spiritual matters (like where you live and where to work); the pastors try to counsel people rather than refer them to mental health professionals, they hold meetings about members and former staff to criticize them...the teaching just enables all of that because the members think this is normal based on what they are told is in the bible. 


Hey Rebel, I'm here for very similar reasons! I can relate to a lot of these same things. I'm most concerned about the authoritarian nature of the churches, not about their specific theological practices.

I know our current crop of ECC cheerleaders may deny that these things happen, but the very simple truth is that northlands regional overseers (especially Mark Bowen and Mark Darling) have been aware of and involved in multiple shunnings and excommunications at Cedarcreek and Coulee Rock. If you haven't experienced it - great, I hope it never happens to you and I hope you stand up for justice if it happens in front of you. But "I haven't seen it" doesn't mean "it doesn't happen" because it has absolutely happened as recently as 2016.
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Mango
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« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2018, 12:41:58 pm »

Personally I'm on here not only because of false teachings, but because of the excommunications and shunning that happen in the Wisconsin churches--Cedarcreek and Coulee Rock.

I know our current crop of ECC cheerleaders may deny that these things happen, but the very simple truth is that northlands regional overseers (especially Mark Bowen and Mark Darling) have been aware of and involved in multiple shunnings and excommunications at Cedarcreek and Coulee Rock. If you haven't experienced it - great, I hope it never happens to you and I hope you stand up for justice if it happens in front of you. But "I haven't seen it" doesn't mean "it doesn't happen" because it has absolutely happened as recently as 2016.

Just what would you recommend for a woman who leaves her husband for another woman and is unrepentant over a long period of time? Is that not behavior worthy of excommunication?
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2018, 12:52:38 pm »

No one was excommunicated for that reason, Mango.  Are you familiar with these churches?  If you can provide documentation that someone was excommunicated for that reason, please do. I mean, maybe there are more excommunications that I don't know about? 

But to answer your question, no I would not excommunicate someone for that reason.  Apparently you would?
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2018, 07:17:53 pm »

No one was excommunicated for that reason, Mango.  Are you familiar with these churches?  If you can provide documentation that someone was excommunicated for that reason, please do. I mean, maybe there are more excommunications that I don't know about?  

But to answer your question, no I would not excommunicate someone for that reason.  Apparently you would?

Hold on - what? [name removed] you've just revealed the most profound and important disconnect haunting this website. The Apostle Paul INSISTED the Corinthians excommunicate a man who was sleeping with his mother in law - but if a woman cheats on her husband with another woman and won't repent, that is NOT a Biblical reason for excommunication? If a man cheats and won't repent does that make a difference? THIS is it folks - this is the disconnect. Users on this site claiming Christianity but abandoning the Bible's teachings. [name removed] this nullifies everything you've ever said. Every sin you've talked about the church committing on the website must now be RE-READ through this lense, because what MANY churches would find to be Biblical reasons for doing this or that, you find NOT to be. So who made you the new moral authority over the Bible? Bethel? I know lots of folks giving their money to Bethel and if this is what they're teaching there, I think that would be important to share publicly...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 01:43:55 pm by puff of purple smoke » Logged
AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2018, 07:35:22 pm »

Jeromy, the hatred and disdain emanating from you is not okay.


So many things wrong with this.  
1.  Others disagree with your statement as to what happened.  Guess what.  I believe the people who say that is not what happened.  

2.  You outed someone on this site by name.

3.  You are literally gossiping.  Like 100% gossiping.

4.  You are cruel.  Your hatred and homophobia are palpable.  This is not the way to deal with homosexuality in any way.  And again it has been stated to you that is not what happened.  

5.  This is wrong.  You are wrong.  This is very bad and no this is not how other churches would handle any of this.  

Paging the Taliban.  We have a new member on deck.


This is a new low for me for GCx.  How much lower are you all planning to take this?
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2018, 07:44:09 pm »

Jeromy, the hatred and disdain emanating from you is not okay.


So many things wrong with this.  
1.  Others disagree with your statement as to what happened.  Guess what.  I believe the people who say that is not what happened.  

2.  You outed someone on this site by name.

3.  You are literally gossiping.  Like 100% gossiping.

4.  You are cruel.  Your hatred and homophobia are palpable.  This is not the way to deal with homosexuality in any way.  And again it has been stated to you that is not what happened.  

5.  This is wrong.  You are wrong.  This is very bad and no this is not how other churches would handle any of this.  

Paging the Taliban.  We have a new member on deck.


This is a new low for me for GCx.  How much lower are you all planning to take this?

Taliban? Homophobic? Thank you for proving my point more effectively than I ever could
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Greentruth
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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2018, 07:49:22 pm »

No Agatha, it is not wrong, or isolated. The Church iI attend would not be ok with a woman leaving her husband to marry another woman. Our pastor actually shared back not that long ago he will probably end up in jail for refusing perform a gay marriage the way things are going. Do you believe the Bible, all of it? This is very telling and changes my view here a lot on this form.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2018, 08:00:56 pm »

I know of no other church that would 1.  Tell an untruth about what happened.  And 2.  Publicly tell someoneís sin on the Internet, connected by name.

Iím sure those churches  exist.    Sadly.  I try to avoid them though. 


Guys for real, please take those posts down.  That was harsh.





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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2018, 08:06:09 pm »

I know of no other church that would 1.  Tell an untruth about what happened.  And 2.  Publicly tell someoneís sin on the Internet, connected by name.

Iím sure those churches  exist.    Sadly.  I try to avoid them though. 


Guys for real, please take those posts down.  That was harsh.







Telling someone's sin??? What are you talking about?? I was responding to what I THOUGHT was a hypothetical  scenario that SOMEONE ELSE POSTED
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2018, 08:09:06 pm »

I know of no other church that would 1.  Tell an untruth about what happened.  And 2.  Publicly tell someoneís sin on the Internet, connected by name.

Iím sure those churches  exist.    Sadly.  I try to avoid them though. 


Guys for real, please take those posts down.  That was harsh.







And im sorry but dads alleged "sins" have been posted all over this site and you've devoured every morsel...why didn't you ask anyone else to take their posts down about my dad??
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2018, 08:14:29 pm »

If itís a hypothetical situation than I apologize.  I thought you were talking about a real situation.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2018, 08:17:49 pm »

There is a huge difference between allegations against a pastor and those against a member.


You know this.  Come on, you know this.  And all Iíve ever heard from here on that has been letís get this investigated.


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Greentruth
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« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2018, 08:23:00 pm »

I know of no other church that would 1.  Tell an untruth about what happened.  And 2.  Publicly tell someoneís sin on the Internet, connected by name.


Agatha, Most on this form that are attacking MD and ECC do it everyday.  What Suzanne tweeted the other day was advocated by many here, and usd as a tool to mislead,manipulate, and create new lies. From the way it sounded last time it was brought up it still hasnít totally been taken care off. I have only been involved in this form for several weeks, and can seethe unbelievable hypocrisy that illuminates this site
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2018, 08:48:34 pm »

There is a huge difference between allegations against a pastor and those against a member.


You know this.  Come on, you know this.  And all Iíve ever heard from here on that has been letís get this investigated.




Ok, so why don't you delete the post where you call me a homophobic, islamic terrorist then?

Also, what exactly am I supposed to "know"? That a God-ordained role of a pastor should come with a healthy dose of skepticism and suspicion? That member's sins are lesser sins than pastors sins? That a member (who could be a CEO of a massive corporation) still has less "power" than a pastor? For the record, I'm still waiting for you to comment on the substance of what I posted, or any kind of Biblical references to support your views.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 09:01:57 pm by jeromydaviddarling » Logged
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