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Author Topic: Tom Short is coming to my church....  (Read 14750 times)
askingquestionsaboutGCI
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« on: August 15, 2008, 09:10:33 am »

....this weekend......  I had heard he would be speaking this Sunday, but just got this e-mail today:

"Tom Short will be coming to town and spending some time with us the weekend of August 15-16. He has made himself available to us for whatever he can do to help and encourage us. So we have set up a time with him on Saturday, 8/16, for all the GCLI guys and some other leaders that we'd like to be with us. As we prayed and talked about it, we thought something along the lines of "Becoming a Great Commission Leader". This would primarily be about vision, focus, priorities, etc. and how to see this more in our hearts and in our practice. I can't think of anyone that can share this subject better than Tom. We will also have plenty of time to interact with Tom. It's going to be an awesome time! If you can, set aside that couple of hours.  You won't be disappointed!"

Hmmm...... after all I've read on this site, I don't know WHAT to think about this!  I won't be going tomorrow, that's for sure -- and I'm not too sure about Sunday either.....

Don't even know why I'm sharing this here -- I just got this rather "unsettled" feeling when I received the e-mail....  what is my heart (and God) trying to tell me?
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 01:12:18 pm »

I don't know what God is trying to tell you.  I would probably either go to confirm to yourself that you need to get OUT of there!  Or don't go and get out of there anyway!

Either way, I'd leave... that's me, though!

I can't at this point even enter our local GC church and have even dropped out of non-church related groups that meet there because of the bad feelings, guilt and pressure it brings up for me to go there!

Good luck... might I suggest becoming Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, E Free, or Pentecostal instead?  Of course, I'm none of these... I'm just saying... go somewhere where the beliefs are spelled out on paper, and they don't deviate from these beliefs and no one person is going to be able to steer the entire congregation or movement based on the current book (Purpose Filled Life) or movie (Braveheart, Band of Brothers) that they are watching!!!   Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 04:16:00 pm »

I must be missing something -- is this a GCI church or another denomination inviting Tom Short to come and speak?

My daughter went to a Perspectives class where a GCI elder was speaking and I e-mailed my concerns about having GCI leaders sharing.  They listened intently and even researched GCM warning.  They decided not to change their venue but at least I feel I gave them the information I lacked for so many years.
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askingquestionsaboutGCI
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 07:58:00 pm »

This is a GC* church.  I'm still nominally attending..... my teenage daughters have been attending another (non-GC) church with friends for the last few months, and I've been taking that opportunity to check out that church.  My husband is still there, and unsure as to what he wants/needs to do.  It's a hard decision -- we've been fairly involved for many years and have many friends there, which makes the decision harder......
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EverAStudent
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2008, 07:53:58 am »

Going or not, is entirely your decision.  However, since you are still "attending" it might be a good idea to go and verify a bit of what you have heard on the forum.  That is not to suggest going with a negative attitude, but listen for the catch-phrases (married to the church, leaders are to be obeyed, all men should aspire to leadership, etc.) and evaluate all you hear against the Word.  These people are not enemies, and there is nothing to be frightened of.  Yet, always assess their comments against the Word and do not be subject to the speakers in fear.  Christians who have been educated about error need not fear being duped, but can avoid being carried about by every wind and wave.


That said, do try to find another good church to attend (they are getting fewer and fewer in number however, as the seeker, emergent, postmodern movement envelopes the church global).
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askingquestionsaboutGCI
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 12:45:38 pm »

Tom's sermon from Sunday was posted on the church website today.  You can go here:  http://oakridgecc.org/wordpress/ministries/sermon-downloads/ if you want to hear it.  I'll need to find time to do so myself.  Interestingly enough, after trying to figure out whether or not to go, the decision was "made" for me, because my youngest daughter came down with bronchitis bordering on pneumonia (in AUGUST???) and thus was far too sick to go anywhere on Sunday.  So if anyone does listen to the message, I'd love to hear what they think about it!
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 06:45:15 pm »

I listened to this message.  It filled me with memories of why I left my GCI church.  I left on Sundays regularly irritated and annoyed.  The messages were fear and guilt based.  

The Tom Short message was typical of the GCI messages I was exposed to for over 10 years.  An emphasis of "You need to's".  He even says that Christianity is in trouble and the World isn't being reached because of us!!!  That sometime in the future because of us Christianity can die.  Where is God's Grace, God's sovereignty and God's power?

It reminded me why I'm glad to be OUT and have a new perspective.  

I must have been brainwashed to have listened to these kind of messages for so long and never questioned what I was hearing.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 08:27:00 am »

I listened to part of it, but I fell asleep... it was only 4:00 in the afternoon.  HMMMM.  I will try again, but I was annoyed from the beginning by his statement against the CHURCH as a whole not having any answers for people.

I disagree.  I think some churches have lots of nice answers for people.

In fairness, I need to listen to the entire thing before I can comment more thoroughly.
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2008, 11:46:06 pm »

I didn't listen to all of it yet (a bunch), but so far it's sickening...
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exshep
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 05:38:03 pm »

I am  burning a CD now so I can listen to it the car.   I have far enough away from it that I might be able to sift through it.  The title alone is a bit presumptuous.   I cannot make any guarantees, but I will give it the old college try.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2008, 05:49:41 pm »

Quote from: wastedyearsthere
I listened to this message.  It filled me with memories of why I left my GCI church.  I left on Sundays regularly irritated and annoyed.  The messages were fear and guilt based.  


It is funny you mention it.  I had an experience in an urban church. The doctrine and outreach is sound.  There are members with mental health issues which is to  be expected in the  neighborhood. Generally the congregation is warm, supportive and inviting.  Nevertheless my wife and I left feeling worse on Sunday than when we came in.   It took a change of church and neighborhood to break us free.   Wasted, thanks for your post. I am not sure what to do with the  information.  but at least the revelation that I was not the only  one feeling that way was reassuring and comforting.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2008, 05:46:37 pm »

If anyone feels triggered,  feel free to raise your hand.  I had two reactions to it.  I was listening to in the car while running some errands.  I listened to in one sitting.  The message in itself was homelitically  sound and interesting to take in.   There were some facts and figures which needed citation.  I was wondering if that were overblown.  

I was not taking notes, but I did catch  phrases which to a  former GC member would be extremely grating.  I could say why many would want to dive for cover.  There are GC leaders which I cannot listen to.  It makes anyone feel better, I tried listening to speakers who taught at the pentecostal bible school.   I have been out for over 20  years. I cannot listen to it lest I start floating.  

I was able to listen to the message with some dispassionate detachment with ready empathy for anyone triggered.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2008, 07:29:20 am »

Ex-Shep

Can you tell me the phrases you found grating in the message?  I couldn't figure out why I had the reaction I did to the message -- like you said it was sound but somehow it still triggered and was irritating to me.  After 20 years the messages sound just the same as when I was there!
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2008, 12:19:47 pm »

How was that sound? He spent quite an excess of time grating on a girl who wasn't as much an intellectual as a professor, and so decided to trust God rather than listen to Him; what about when evolutionary theory/philosophy first arose...there was no scientific basis (yet, i.e. no experimentation to confirm and check results, etc.) to prove or disprove it, but it was a naturalistic asupernatural answer to Christianity, and many bought it; were the "fools" who didn't listen to that [admittedly intelligent] opine by Darwin nit-wits driving-away the world because of their anti-intellectualism? Or were they truly those with faith?

Where they the self-deceivers easily deluded by anyone with a sly and witty tongue, or ignoramuses who clinged to God and Christ for dear life? She may have had, perhaps, a bad attitude, or she may have misspoke, but Tom digging his claws into that girl for her holding on for dear life (when a real pastor encourages someone, points them in good directions, and refutes mute arguments like those in Academia today--which can be quite a tall order, might I add) onto Faith? How's that sound!

And worse, he wrested Christianity: he created made a distinction between faith (trust) and truth: but the Christian is one with trust (faith) in the truth spoken by our Lord, no matter others' arguments: "my sheep listen to my voice", says Jesus. They just don't hearken to others'; the intelligista-based "christianity" is also the one that reminds me of the demons who believe and shudder...people who believe because of reasonableness but to them Christ and His teaching are not trusted, or precious, but questionable, when it ought be our own thoughts and understandings, but not those things themselves, that are evaluate-able.
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exshep
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2008, 08:19:41 pm »

Quote from: "wastedyearsthere"
Ex-Shep

Can you tell me the phrases you found grating in the message?  I couldn't figure out why I had the reaction I did to the message -- like you said it was sound but somehow it still triggered and was irritating to me.  After 20 years the messages sound just the same as when I was there!


I will have to back again and listen.  Hard to take notes when one is driving.  Egg on my face.  I took the particular comment in context, but instantly recognized  that some might want to go screaming out of the auditorium leaving a gaping silhouette in the door.  I would blame them  at all.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
theresearchpersona
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2008, 01:14:34 pm »

And just in case,  I want to be clear that I wasn't saying anything like "you idiot", just that it's quite messed-up.
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