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Author Topic: whatever happened to...?  (Read 30290 times)
lone gone
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2009, 05:48:10 pm »

The poster of the info about Box ( ustawannabe) is a former member of the Ames Church. The info, in my humble opinion, was shared with no ill intent. Anyone who cared enough about Terry Box to ask about his current whereabouts could find similar news through internet searches on their own.

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ustawannabee
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2009, 03:30:45 pm »

Well, let me weigh in on my intentions. I certainly had no ill intentions, (thanks for your support, lone gone ;-) as has been said this is a public forum and it is public information. this topic is whatever happened to... and that is something that had happened to one of the people mentioned. actually my heart was quite grieved by the story as I also liked the Boxes. I thought about sending them a card to let them know that I was praying for them at the time that I learned it. However, it was around the time of the Ames reunion and I didn't want them to think that that had been where I heard it (it wasn't) and while I remember them, they would not necesarily remember me, so I didn't. Perhaps, I should have since "knowing good to do and not doing it"?? ...
also, if any of us ran into someone who knew them and asked how they were doing, and gosh how old are their kids now and what are they doing etc, all the usual questions that we "old people" ask, wouldn't it have come up? wouldn't it be strange if it didn't??

interesting that they have been held up as a "bad example" in the GC world. how typical of the group. who was it that said that "the church is the only army that shoots its own wounded" I truly hope that they have a church somewhere that is able to put its arms around them and love them and suppot them the way they surely must need to be.

 Of course, GC* is where when a young man lay in his hospital bed dieing (literally) an elder reproved him for not being a better testimony or witness or whatever.

But back to Terry Box , it is kind of strange, I guess it just depends on who you are, doesn't it. I know of another case in which a family in GC had a child who called in a bomb threat to the high school and because this guy was a leading type (not an elder to my knowledge) it was decided that the kid couldnt have done it because they were such good parents. WHAT?Huh

Desiring Truth, I am sorry if you were offended by the post  but the comment about covering up reminds me a little too much of GC. Perhaps I misunderstand your motives?
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2009, 03:49:11 pm »

It is disgusting what GCI does to parents with kids that go wayward.  I know of at least 3 families where GCI heaped blame on the parents with kids making foolish choices and lifestyles.  They were told because they didn't discipline (GCI method which is spanking) their kids enough that is why they turned out the way they did.

I had a personal discussion with one of the elders about this topic.  They hold to these beliefs that if children are raised right they will not turn their back on Christianity or make bad choices.  I questioned them about God being the perfect parent and yet Adam and Eve sinned......  It is bad theology and atrocious to heap pain on already suffering parents.  We all make mistakes as parents and children have the freedom to reject the Christian life and go astray.  We all know examples of this -- Godly parents and children rejecting it. The parents need to be supported and loved not condemned and judged.

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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2009, 03:54:19 pm »

Perhaps due to abuse of genre. To some this may sound blasphemous, but the proverbs aren't all these absolutes: they're often general principles, much more than most other portions of Scripture. Even leading conservative believing theologians would tell you that. I don't think they're even presented in any way suggesting otherwise. GC seems to think "if we can pull the right heartstring we'll romance kids into heaven". Hardly.

Don't underestimate, however, how impressed the young women before they get married and have kids are with some of GC's parenting: it seems as though many of the kids are brought under control quickly: such as the toddlers who a gal in the nursery was talking about that if they were misbehaving, a parent could put hand to knee, the kid would touch that knee, and they would obey. This kind of thing really impresses some of the younger adults in GC that they think something along the lines of "GC's got it all down". 
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2009, 04:04:07 pm »

TRP

I totally agree.  The proverbs are principals not promises and GCI taught them as promises.  They have to rationalize if something doesn't turn out such in the case of Parents with wayward kids -- must be something they did WRONG. 

I think their discipline of their children borders on abuse.  The over spanking -- the bruising a child with the rod......  The use of spanking over other types of discipline.  I was even told by an elders wife that if two children were arguing or having conflict -- that both kids would get spanked. 

When you have problems at GCI -- they tend to blame you for any problems.  Not just with children -- but if you don't have friends -- are you friendly?  If you aren't seeing people getting saved -- are you in the Word enough?  There was always something they turned the table on you instead of just seeing that suffering and pain is part of this fallen life which God uses to conform us to His image.

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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2009, 04:11:29 pm »

TRP

I totally agree.  The proverbs are principals not promises and GCI taught them as promises.  They have to rationalize if something doesn't turn out such in the case of Parents with wayward kids -- must be something they did WRONG. 

I think their discipline of their children borders on abuse.  The over spanking -- the bruising a child with the rod......  The use of spanking over other types of discipline.  I was even told by an elders wife that if two children were arguing or having conflict -- that both kids would get spanked. 

When you have problems at GCI -- they tend to blame you for any problems.  Not just with children -- but if you don't have friends -- are you friendly?  If you aren't seeing people getting saved -- are you in the Word enough?  There was always something they turned the table on you instead of just seeing that suffering and pain is part of this fallen life which God uses to conform us to His image.



I wonder if it has to do with that GC has imbibed some (or a lot?) of the teachings of Bill Gothard? I remember one of DTS's faculty members back when it was a more conservative school (supposedly it still is, but if that's conservative...) writing about attending a conference by the guy and how horrifying it was: said they'd never seen such abuse of the OT before or since (which is really saying something for an academic theologian). I also remember seeing Gothards books in the church library where I was: an encyclopedia of stuff, actually, though I don't know if it was a complete set: his name seemed to come up somewhat regularly (if not all the time, it did still come up and come up).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 04:17:36 pm by theresearchpersona » Logged
DesiringTruth
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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2009, 04:13:44 pm »

ustawannabee, I really don't believe that you meant malice in starting a conversation around this family's tragedy.  I'm sure you didn't mean any harm.  I am just questioning the wisdom of bringing it up. I'm quite sure that Terry himself (and his family), if he came here to read, would not appreciate coming across this thread discussing their situation.  My motives are purely to protect my friend and his family.  They've suffered immensely, and I know that they are not eager to discuss this publicly, even in private much.  A conversation like this might be appropriate among friends, in private, sincerely wanting to know about Terry and his family, and desiring his best. You being a former acquaintance of his, perhaps you would feel just as comfortable dropping him a line and letting him know what you shared here.

When I want to know what is happening with someone, finding out a bit about them on a forum like this can be appropriate and helpful, but if my name came up, I would hope and pray that it would not be about the dirty laundry in my life, my kids' lives, my wife's life, and so on. A friend with good intentions might do that, thinking that it is appropriate, but I would consider it poor judgment and insensitive. 

By the way, people in general run to (oftentimes false) conclusions, not just in GC.  In the Denver newspapers, when this came out, readers who didn't even know Terry crucified him, calling for his son's death (execution) and concluding that the only way this would have happened is if the parents themselves were evil, thereby leading their son to gangs and violence and on and on.  (After all, how could the parents not know? How negligent were the parents to have this outcome?)  This is an example of why I am concerned about perpetuating this story. People can make rash and unjustified conclusions based on the little that they read or hear.  Again, conversation among friends in private about someone they care about seems appropriate to me.

Coverup?  No. Discretion? Yes. BUT that is my opinion, and everyone is free to do what they wish.  I will leave this topic rest.  On to other topics.
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jaywalker
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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2009, 04:19:29 pm »

Quote
I wonder if it has to do with that GC has imbibed some (or a lot?) of the teachings of Bill Gothard? I remember one of DTS's faculty members back when it was a more conservative school (supposedly it still is, but if that's conservative...) writing about attending a conference by the guy and how horrifying it was: said they'd never seen such abuse of the OT before or since (which is really saying something for an academic theologian). I also remember seeing Gothards books in the church library where I was: an encyclopedia of stuff, actually, though I don't know if it was a complete set: his name seemed to come up somewhat regularly (if not all the time, it did still come up and come up).

Gothard was also one of their "authoritative sources" for the "all negative comments are evil reports and are therefore evil" doctrine.  Silly misuse of the English language, KJV terminology, and Scripture taken out of context.  Silly. 
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2009, 04:21:11 pm »

TRP

I just think the church has cookie cutter ideas on the "right" way to do things and children fit into their simplistic thinking.  I have friends that had tremendous peer pressure to home school their kids and not send them to a private Christian school and public was out of the question for elementary.  There was a way to do things -- home school them until middle school and then send them to public school.  It seems if you have other convictions -- you are going against the church.  

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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2009, 04:28:15 pm »

Hi Jay W.,  (that's a play on "George double-ya", by the way!)

Haven't seen you around before. : ) [would love to put a waving-hand emoticon, but no option--if it even exists]
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saved
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« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2009, 07:50:56 pm »

When you have problems at GCI -- they tend to blame you for any problems.  Not just with children -- but if you don't have friends -- are you friendly?  If you aren't seeing people getting saved -- are you in the Word enough?  There was always something they turned the table on you instead of just seeing that suffering and pain is part of this fallen life which God uses to conform us to His image.

All too true.  And it gets in our blood.  And then we do it to ourselves and those in authority don't need to anymore.

I have ex-GC friends with a wayward child... it's touch and go whether this young adult pull themselves around or plunge irrevocably into poor choices.  On the one hand, both parents recognize that the child has a strong personality and is making their own choices.  On the other, I hear musings of "what did we do wrong?" and "what should we have done differently?"

I suppose all parents of wayward children would have a tendency to think that way, but there have been times when GC heaps it on just when grace is most needed.
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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2009, 08:16:05 pm »

 Huh ???Wow, I was just interested in the whereabouts of some friends that I haven't seen in many years. Instead I have stirred up a hornets nest of gossip and judgement.
I know that we all have had some embarrassing moments, just remember that whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles on one point is guilty of the whole law.
My desire is to pray for the Box family and for you as well ,just leave me word on this page.  Thank you
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2009, 12:11:14 am »

I really don't know if there's been gossip or judgment: there's been one person afraid that it could occur because of mentioning an event, but elsewise there's been only empathy for the Box[e]s. I think this is the value that it's been posted: it lets other saints know they need our prayers.
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ustawannabee
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2009, 08:58:11 am »

My real questions about all this is , had they left GC* before or after all this, did anyone from GC be supportive of them, do they have a church body or other small group etc that can be there for them, and generally speaking when a pastor leaves GC what do they do for a living?

and other than pray what else can be done for a hurt member of the body?
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