"Jesus Christ changes lives. He can change an organization, too."

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[nelliepooh]

Theologically, I think GCx has a right to believe whatever they want. What concerns me is their tactics. In order to achieve their Theology, they sometimes  stoop to an "end justifies the means" mentality.

The GCx Gospel Bus is coming through and it's heading to the station NOW! If you are unfortunate enought to get run over, then its tragic casualty but one that must happen for the greater good.

I think what most of us are saying is, "Hey, slow down a bit. Check your mirrors and use your turn signal." I don't have a problem with whatever bus they drive, my problem is with how they drive it.

Its more like they are leaving the bar trying to drive drunk they know its wrong but they r too stuburn and hedadstrong that they do it anyway.

[Innerlight]

Guest-
Isn't that refering to end times, and the final curtain coming down, the hopelessness of their final state?  It's too late...the holy will go on to be holy, and the wicked will continue to go down their path as well....context, context, context!   

[Captain Bible]

I think the leaders are 100% confident that Jesus changes Lives and they hope he will change our lives. So we may become Christians. I don't know where they draw the line, but Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Orthodox Christians and Mormons, are solidly not Christians. After that it is like a football team. There is the GC team and then there are other teams. Mostly they ignore all the other teams and keep their “eye on the prize” so they can “win the race”.
The Gospel of Christ is their gospel. They have got it right after all these years of church history. A pastor in a GC church can't imagine another church that is fulfilling the Great Commission like they are.  

The Leaders have a worldview that polarizes us plan and simple. They are the ones who draw the lines in the sand and separate the sheep and goats. You are ether with them or against them, they will not change. The act of changing from their core beliefs is the vary act of betraying Jesus their savior.

I think most pastors of GC would say to us: “Get over it, after all we are serving God and that is all that matters. Stop spreading slander and stop attacking the Church. You should all see the error of your ways and submit yourselves to the churches authority”

I think that is what they would say to us. We are the ones who have the problem, we are the ones who have fallen away from the truth. You can pray for God to change their hearts, and I admire your faith, but they are praying the same prayer about you right now. So in all due respect, who will God listen to?

 

[BTDT]

they will not change

I think I agree with you, to some degree, if you look at GC as a movement.  However, I personally know at least a half-dozen GC leaders that did change, significantly.  Some of them changed while they were in GC, and then left; others were told to leave, and did some changing both before and after that event.

I am personally not aware of a GC leader that has (1) significantly changed their views from GC views and (2) stayed in the movement.  I'm not saying that never happened, I'm just saying I don't know of any. 
-Ed-

[Linda]

but Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Orthodox Christians and Mormons, are solidly not Christians.

Whoa, Nellie. That is quite an accusation, Captain. I agree with the Mormon part, I guess. Mormons have distinctly different beliefs about who God is, about who Jesus is, and about who the Holy Spirit is. They don't believe in the Trinity. I think they also believe they become Gods. This is distinctly different than orthodox (small "o") Christianity. I think it would be impossible for someone to accept the teaching of the Mormon faith and be a Christian because they are religions that are not compatible. They teach opposite things.

I have no idea why you would say that Anglicans, Episcopalians, and Orthodox Christians are solidly not Christian. Or, were you saying that GC believes they are not Christians? Maybe I missed your point. There are obviously people attending all kinds of churches and denominations and associations (including GC churches) who are not Christians.

About your "football team" example, I think you make an excellent point. GC sees themselves as the best team. Unfortunately, they are wrong. There is only one team. The Church. It is made up of all believers, in all churches, in all countries, throughout all time. Anyone who thinks, THEY are the true or best church with something "special" that all the other churches don't have is lacking understanding and dividing the Body of Christ.

Isn't it interesting that GC uses the idea of "dividing up" or "factions" or "party making" in their Swerver message, by suggesting that it is divisive when people date because the idea of a couple dating excludes others and is therefore divisive. Oddly, they have no problem with criticizing and dividing the Bride of Christ, when they tell people that other churches don't care as much about the Gospel going forth, don't sacrifice as much as they do, and don't teach obedience to Scripture. Or, when they tell people they should join GC for life and if they have left they should come back. They should marry someone in the movement. They, in fact, should marry the movement. For a group that has a core value of "unity", this is a profoundly divisive group.

I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.  For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

[lone gone]

The Captain was saying that GC thinks the afore mentioned denominations are not Christian.( pretty much what I remember hearing from the leaders because those people believed in Sacraments and infant baptism as a means of salvation.... and concluding that they were counting on works to save them.)I agree with you that the Mormons are heretics, but that all the rest mentioned are part of the body of Christ.

[Linda]

I don't know where they draw the line, but Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Orthodox Christians and Mormons, are solidly not Christians.

Hi Lone Gone, I thought that was what he was saying, too, but he prefaced the comment with, "I don't know where they draw the line," so then I thought he was making the statement himself. I was confused.

Bottom line: I think GC leaders could benefit from some "official" training (and by official I mean not written by them, but by people who actually have a broad knowledge of church history, theology, etc.).

For example, about baptism. I recently listened to an interesting, thoughtful, and respectful debate between R. C. Sproul and John MacArthur regarding baptism. Sproul=Infant, MacArthur=Believer. If GC believes that all people who baptize infants think it saves them, they are really, sadly misinformed. If they teach that, they are teaching something that isn't true.  Sproul mentioned that in his classes, he asks students what they believe. Then, he makes them take the opposite side and write a paper defending the position. So, for example, the Infant Baptism people have to defend the Believer's Baptism position and vice versa. That way, they have a solid understanding of the "why" of their position.

[Captain Bible]

but Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Orthodox Christians and Mormons, are solidly not Christians.

Whoa, Nellie. That is quite an accusation, Captain. I agree with the Mormon part, I guess. Mormons have distinctly different beliefs about who God is, about who Jesus is, and about who the Holy Spirit is. They don't believe in the Trinity. I think they also believe they become Gods. This is distinctly different than orthodox (small "o") Christianity. I think it would be impossible for someone to accept the teaching of the Mormon faith and be a Christian because they are religions that are not compatible. They teach opposite things.

I have no idea why you would say that Anglicans, Episcopalians, and Orthodox Christians are solidly not Christian. Or, were you saying that GC believes they are not Christians? Maybe I missed your point. There are obviously people attending all kinds of churches and denominations and associations (including GC churches) who are not Christians.



 

Sorry, Linda I should clarify. Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, and Orthodox Christians have just as much if not more claim to Christianity than GC has, after all they have been around a lot longer than GC. Mormons also have just as much right to claim Christ as their savior as GC has. I was writing solidly from a GC standpoint. For the Record I do not consider myself a Christian. I have great respect for religious faith of all kind. I think the views GC holds are preposterous. I am just passing on the rhetoric I hear when I am home. I am trying to put a differing voice out here because I feel I have a different perspective on the matter.

[Linda]

Thanks for clarifying, Captain.

I agree. Everyone gets to believe whatever they want. We are all free to choose what we believe. I don't mean to say I think everyone is correct (obviously if 2 people believe 2 contradictory things, at least one of them must be wrong). Thanks for sharing your perspective. I appreciate it.

[nelliepooh]

I think the leaders are 100% confident that Jesus changes Lives and they hope he will change our lives. So we may become Christians. I don't know where they draw the line, but Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Orthodox Christians and Mormons, are solidly not Christians. After that it is like a football team. There is the GC team and then there are other teams. Mostly they ignore all the other teams and keep their “eye on the prize” so they can “win the race”.
The Gospel of Christ is their gospel. They have got it right after all these years of church history. A pastor in a GC church can't imagine another church that is fulfilling the Great Commission like they are.  

The Leaders have a worldview that polarizes us plan and simple. They are the ones who draw the lines in the sand and separate the sheep and goats. You are ether with them or against them, they will not change. The act of changing from their core beliefs is the vary act of betraying Jesus their savior.

I think most pastors of GC would say to us: “Get over it, after all we are serving God and that is all that matters. Stop spreading slander and stop attacking the Church. You should all see the error of your ways and submit yourselves to the churches authority”

I think that is what they would say to us. We are the ones who have the problem, we are the ones who have fallen away from the truth. You can pray for God to change their hearts, and I admire your faith, but they are praying the same prayer about you right now. So in all due respect, who will God listen to?

 

I think what is more important is who will listen to God?  God will listen to both my and their prayers but the only way there will be change is if people listen to God.  Maybe some see the form as slander and attacking the church but more important is how God sees it and personally the things that people post on here about are not slanderous, they are true things, slader is a false statement that results in a tarnished reputation.  They tarnished their own reputation.  As far as attacking the church well that's probably true but its not like we say that the church is all bad, but there are a lot of problems alongside the Godly things they do.