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Author Topic: has anyone seen the *NEW* GCM website?  (Read 6484 times)
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« on: April 24, 2008, 12:31:15 pm »

I went to the website today to see if I could get some more information.  A part of me is still wondering if it's worth it to try contacting someone at "Headquarters" or whatever.   I noticed their website is completely redone.

I clicked on FAQ since I don't remember that ever being there before.   What I saw was the most bizarre, surreal thing I have ever experienced.

The entire section is completely different than what it was a year ago.  It's like they revamped the entire website because of this forum/GCMwarning site.  It states that GCM was started in 1989 and has no history before that.  It's not connecting to any other GC church. There's nothing about how there was an apology made in 1991 or whatever.

There's a statement about how there are some sites on the web that try to say that GCM is part of EVERY GC* church, which is apparently not true, even though an earlier question states that GCM and GCC work together in training and support.  As I read it, it didn't make any sense; however I could see how a new person or someone questioning the organization would want to believe the best of GCM after reading it.

How bizarre!  It still boggles my mind how quickly I went from thinking it was just a problem with the pastor to realizing that it's just so much bigger than that.

additionally, i found out that the gcm website is exactly the same on multiple urls; normally if a website has more than one the company will just forward the page to go to only one.  however, these are all existing under separate entities.  is there going to be a change in name again?

www.gcmweb.org
www.greatcommission.org
www.oneyear.org
www.gcmlt.org
www.gcmmissions.org
www.gcmevents.org
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 03:34:43 pm »

A few notes that, maybe, you can fill-in with some research.

Anything from Driscoll I'm weary of...he helped FOUND EmergING and what became Emergent Village...and he uses the very same name-changing tactics in rhetoric to dodge accountability: trying to argue "I'm not Emerging, I'm Emergent, there's a difference"...but funny thing is the faith-denyers, Christ-changers, and Truth-we-can-never-know preachers of "Emerging" were the first to define "Emergent", and Driscoll was among them...and still speaks their vocabulary and language (despite the reformed veneer), and refuses to mark, avoid, and not even greet, these people: even recommending many of their books with a weak "disclaimer" rather than a warning about the contents therein and what those literatures are founded upon.

Driscoll is a guy who said he left and started "his" church just because he didn't like the way his old one did things...sound like THE divisiveness the Word warns about, anyone?

And he has obtained notoriety, it seems, as much through his vulgar, coarse, shock-jock speech as much as preaching what's right, oh yeah, and because of numbers: he wouldn't be known at all if it weren't for the sheer numbers he draws...but why isn't his congregation calling him out for such irreverence and unholiness in what is supposed to be THE sacred gathering on earth amongst the Lord's redeemed?

Driscoll cracks jokes about those who criticize him...which reminds me of GC pastors who do the same to short-circuit any possible criticism. Driscoll even introduces contemplative-mysticism (mostly through book recommendations) but then implies that he doesn't (just recently saw a comment about not worry "there's no labyrinth" {paraphrasing}).

Anyone here know about John MacArthur? He's not exactly the most savory or popular preacher around...but he is one who'll go to pastors meetings and be the only one to rebuke them to-their-face and demand repentance concerning the follow-the-fads ignore-the-bible; even he's been outspoken about Driscoll's actions. When Driscoll was invited by Mr. Piper to preach their I wanted to cry.

So anyone coming out of this kind of spiritual weirdness...Reformed slightly-altered with unbelieving-mysticism or maybe it's rather and more precisely altered with unbeliever's let's-design-our-own-church liberalism (blasphemes God, steps on Christ's toes between Him and His bride) is to me, someone to mark. That thing about marking those who teach anything other than the apostles' teachings and avoiding them...I once read the "mark" means "keep an eye on", that is...you don't want to not know what going on and have their errors come-in another avenue.

I think the biggest indicator, to me, is his attitude towards men who not only deny, but wholly change, who Jesus is to suite their fancies: and then Mr. Driscoll will have photos taken sitting with these "friends" who he "just" has disagreements with...that's not even something to fight over: that's rebuke and walk-away-from situation: and never again greet. There's an early Christian "tradition" that John would not even enter a bathhouse (not, of course, like what "bathhouse" means today) because one of the heretics concerning Jesus's person was within it.

Lot's o time I'm willing to fight for people (and fight them to) in other areas of error...but if one finds they don't know, and even change, who Jesus is: and spread this, then it's bets-off, you. are. not. my. brother. or. sister. but. blaspheme. my. LORD. and. FRIEND. You expect this from unbelievers, fine, but professing christians are another matter.

Doesn't it concern anyone that, for instance, the guy who joined GC (was here a while ago and took off) came from a group named "Acts 29": it betrays arrogance a pride, a "we can do things our way" sentiment...like they can add unto what the Apostles did. ACTS is often called "The Acts of the Apostles", and while more accurately it would be "of the Holy Spirit" it's actually the correct title, because it emphasizes that what these men did as THE "special messengers" was final, foundations laid: obey or be surprised (though you shouldn't be...we warned you) at the "reward" you will received when you meet God...and He judges that you were disobedient in regards to HIS bride.

Whatever comes from Driscoll may not be all bad...however i have a strong sense of "wait a minute" in regards to the guy...like his veneer of orthodoxy hides much more subtle dangers. I HOPE I'm wrong, and correct me if I am, or if you know anything maybe post it. But there are parallels between GCM and Acts29 type-stuff, and it's no surprise that they can fuse-together their work and message...and not only this, but if you check Acts29/Mars-Hill websites stuff you actually find not just GCM, but GC church-related information.

Putting it this way with GC, someone might say "maybe some of the orthodoxy will rub-off", however it would just be a veneer...you have to FOUND right teaching on THE CORRECT FOUNDATION. You can't just tack it onto the old: the rent is made WORSE. GC doesn't get this...maybe Driscoll doesn't: and personally I really wouldn't want to start my own church because I didn't like the way the old one did things (I don't care if they say "no instruments" and stand rigidly so long as it's fervent desire for the Lord, correct doctrine, and truly reverent focus-on-Christ gatherings: though of course I don't hope people will stand rigidly or be stuffy): he never mentioned any doctrinal issues, it just wasn't, I guess, "relevant" enough...and anyone teaching "relevance" or "relevant ministry" is already in a big hole and error...Just read Jesus's teachings in the gospel and warnings about what the world and church relationship will be.
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 05:06:30 pm »

http://svchapel.org/Resources/BookReviews/book_reviews.asp?ID=378

Book Reviews     •
Confessions of a Reformission Rev.
by Mark Driscoll

Mark Driscoll is at the center of much discussion today—partly because he is difficult to pigeon-hole. On the one hand he is a powerful preacher who holds to Reformed theology and has spoken at John Piper’s annual conference. On the other hand he is crude, admits to cursing and is prone to anger and sarcasm (Driscoll manages to insult and make fun of virtually everyone). I am often told that Driscoll is a work in progress (aren’t we all?) and has greatly matured in recent years. That may or may not be, but as a reviewer I must review the book at hand which was published only two years ago (2006).

On a positive note, Confessions reveals a man who holds nothing back. Driscoll passionately and aggressively pursues what he believes is best for the Lord’s work. He defines reformissional as “seeking to determine how Christians and their churches can most effectively be missionaries to their own cultures” (p. 15). Would that more of us seriously considered being reformissional by that definition. Driscoll also is an entrepreneur and visionary (e.g. pp. 60-61). Although he is the pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, his heart lies in evangelism, not pasturing. His preaching is intense, doctrinal and in your face. He is not a man who pulls punches. There is much commendable in Mark Driscoll.

But there is also much that should disturb us about the man:

• He is crude. From barnyard words (pp. 67, 94, 128, 129, 134) to the gross description of the affects of the stomach flu (p. 177), to sexual innuendos (pp. 59-60, 94-96, 128), to repeatedly referring to “God the Ghost” (pp. 7, 26, 34, 47, 74), Driscoll’s language is often shocking.

• He is an admitted curser (pp. 47, 50, 71, 97, 99, 128, 130). He is known as the cussing pastor in Donald Miller’s Blue Like Jazz (pp. 96-97) and there is no indication in this book that Driscoll has reformed his foul language.

• He is also ruthless. Driscoll has a mission (to ultimately grow a church of 10,000 attendees – p. 164) and any who does not fit into that mission is dispensable (pp. 45, 63, 112, 131, 135, 148-150) or fired (pp. 146-147, 196). As Mars Hill grows to megachurch status, one has to wonder what has become of the multitude of people harmed in the process, especially as Driscoll admits his fits of anger when not pleased (pp 99, 128, 130).

• Separation from worldly activities does not fit Driscoll’s missional strategy. He speaks often of drinking and frequenting bars (e.g. pp. 51, 131, 146), buying lottery tickets (p. 58), admiring and learning from foul-mouthed entertainers such as Chris Rock (pp. 43, 70), stealing a sound system (p. 62) and setting himself up for sexual temptation (which he resisted) (p. 128).

• Purity in the church is inconsistent. While Driscoll certainly desires to see Christians live morally, he is willing to use unbelievers in ministry, especially in his worship and concert bands (pp. 68, 158) It is one thing to reach out to those involved in such sins; it is another to use them in ministry.

• He has an unbiblical understanding of demonic activity and recommends the books of C. Fred Dickason and Neil T. Anderson on spiritual warfare (pp. 122, 123, 184).

• He is totally open to charismatic-style leading from the Lord through voices, dreams, visions and words of knowledge (pp. 39, 74-75, 85, 121) as well as tongues (p. 190). This is perhaps the most concerning issue related to Driscoll.

• His church has grown on the back of questionable activities such as non-Christian rock concerts (p. 40), hip-hop and punk-rock worship (pp. 93, 100, 126).

• While Driscoll has distanced himself from the more radical emergent movement (pp. 21-23), he is still associated with the Leadership Network (pp. 7, 82) which promotes emergent.

I found it interesting as well that Driscoll claims emerging churches reach out through relationships not programming, yet the whole book is about programming. Even the chapters are arranged (and titled) around the size of Mars Hill at various times. Nothing (or at least very little) is really said about relationship style evangelism; the emphasis is on what brings people to church services. Nor is there any discussion of the biblical model of the church. The implication is that the church is more shaped by culture than Scripture (pp. 21, 73).

Mark Driscoll is much admired today because his strategy is working—that is, his church is growing (p. 155). But there is much need for careful reflection here.
reviewed by Gary E. Gilley, Pastor-Teacher
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2008, 07:33:25 pm »

Thanks TRP for posting this review.  Gary Gilley, the reviewer, is a well respected pastor-teacher, and author.  One of his books "This Little Church Went to Market" is aimed at the seeker type churches.  Obviously GC fits into this catagory ~ (something which I know full well).  I too have heard of Driscoll's unbiblical and unloving use of language.  God does not need or use this type of "help" to save and sanctify His people.  He uses His Word and Holy Spirit, also through people who are filled with His Spirit, and following Him as Lord and Savior.  I look forward to the Day when our Lord returns to clarify His Truth and ways, and most of all for when He makes me completely holy through glorification!  We all are in process but we must be willing to turn from sin as it is revealed to us through His Word, Spirit, and loving friends.  Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but  rejoices with the truth.  Plus there are many verses that speak about unholy speech.  Christians are only to speak that which is edifying, loving and grace-filled.

And this I pray that, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.  ~ Philippians 1:9-11
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2008, 07:43:30 pm »

That does strike me as historically dishonest.  It does wipe out the Blitz Movement and the McCotter  era.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
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