Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
March 28, 2024, 06:49:41 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Weird...  (Read 8081 times)
theresearchpersona
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 418



« on: February 04, 2009, 03:46:27 am »

I was just sitting here, and suddenly something hit me.

You see, with the "testimonies" of GC, that were often about how Christianity gave a satisfying intellectual framework more than any other, or they would be telling all about "GC, GC, GC", such as "I learned Christians can be cool, and this is a better life...", and other such things, there were really very few people, perhaps, that seemed ever to even have a Christian testimony: a biblically valid one. It wasn't uncommon to go through 1 John and hear people say "yep, that's me, that's me, it makes me thankful that..." (these were the verses about testing ones self to see if one is in the faith at all!).

Then there was the behavior. Very often there was a lot that was respectful, very often things were holy, but...when the opportunity came, rules were thrown-off, people would go streaking (I know both the males and females did this kind of thing), they'd be disorderly and anger people, they'd consume all the media everyone else does irregardless of content and invite everyone they could for "outreach" as so and so on film was being hacked-up, people were screaming God's name in vain, and the violence intensified...

None of this struck me as godly, and I'm not ranting against movies, nor professing we are perfect, or whatever. But it didn't seem to improve, ever, unless some leader was tired of people not being effective enough to bring more bodies, to increase numbers, numbers, numbers.

And so it struck me, I love them, their on my mind, I care for them...but I don't know if I believe, at all, their profession as Christians. The teachers are false, and the leadership does not teach the apostles' doctrines: they are speculators, and some of the worst handlers of scripture I've ever seen. They profess to be teachers, but just repeat from the fad and book of the month, declare their own baseless speculations, or others'. Few seem to care if these things are challenged, holiness does not seem important, nor orderliness (irrelevant to the world).

Besides speaking-up for the truth, I don't even know that I care to "go back". I would think that's hard to say, and perhaps it's just a momentary lapse, but maybe there was love there, but the type of love they showed, as fervent and warm as it may have been, yet seems strangely absent from the biblical kind, inconsiderate and unburdened by want of truth, zealous, but without knowledge.

I'm sitting here flabbergasted, I don't know what it is, and I don't know if I ought to immediately fight this off, and re-establish desiring to go-back to renounce what is darkness, the men walking in it, and plead for repentance...or rather preaching the gospel despite those men, without twisting things, without presuming they are Christians, perhaps not presuming otherwise, either, (I don't know yet), but Christ seemed strangely absent all this, and making and establishing that "more satisfying life in Church" and "in relationships" did strangely seem to neglect the "in fellowship with Christ" part, biblically defined, that is.

And I'm not angry, or bitter, or currently perturbed, warped. I'm wish no harm, nor am I thinking harshly...maybe I would be proven wrong by some there, maybe not; maybe I ought just stay away (because it does seem like in all this, the actual pure, complete, unwarped gospel is hard to find: some kind of bare outline decked with weird twists and pressed into strange methods is present, and perhaps this does do some people good, but it's sooooooo odd; we're told not to even greet someone who presents another gospel).

I'm actually straining for words, they're lost on me. Thinking about them, I could cry right now, for what they're truly losing, the riches in Christ, God's glorious mercy, His freedom (from worldiness, friendship with the world, discernment-lessness, walking unwisely without the fear of the Lord, etc.). You just can't be friends with the world, and with God, and you can't, as it is written, love the world and have the love of the Father within you.

Somebody else...at the moment I feel the need "speak", but really, really, haven't much right now to say! EAS? Terry? Lone? Someone?

For those who do drive-by comments, rant at us cranks or judgmental slanderous evil monsters (the preceding is all tongue-in-cheek, by the way), if you come around professing your love for Jesus, fine, but then why are you slandering those here? Listening to false teachers and not proving all things? Trying to make Christ attractive or be relevant to the world? In fellowship with those who think that they can somehow by their own works increase others' chances to come to God by any of this (read John 6 in a decently formal translation, N/KJV, NASB, ESV, whatev', and then tell me that you should be trying to be relevant)? Show no care for the matters brought into question here, the documentation of it all, the men who strove so hard to correct things graciously and lovingly (as evidenced in their documents)? Believe GC when it says it was/is being persecuted when it seems like what was going on was that other Churches themselves, not necessarily the unbelieving world, were actually warning their members, and other Churches (it was GC that was trying to practice sheep-stealing, mind you)?

Even that to the drive-by's, however, is just straining for words, because for the usual "I", I should be disturbed, but strangely I'm at great peace.

addendum: I ought to say what brought this on, as I was thinking about it, I never saw anyone show or express any shame, or perhaps it's better to put it as "mourning", ever, whether for past sin, or for things that were done "for fun". I'm rather convinced that Christians have godly sorrow that "worketh repentance", and that we don't just do whatev' just because we can, because it's fun, because it makes us relevant, because we assert our liberty (in fact, I'm pretty sure that we first consider our brethren, that even if something is questionable, in love we put their own conscience first, while also examining themselves: the Holy Spirit may, after all, I think, be using them to convict us if we'll just pay attention and hear--whether or not they're saying anything, or perhaps if they just disappear sometime, and don't return: that should make wake-up and think). I know we're not perfect, but for this to never really be demonstrated... and if someone comes by here quoting passages that Christ takes all our shame away, or mourning over sin, I'll quote you Paul in the situations where the church had not shame at those in blatant sin, and that they were to immediately put those people out of the church. Actually I'll do part of that one right now, "You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst" (1 Cor 5:2). I think that it should highly perturb us if our brethren leave us not because of unbelief, but because they can't stand our worldliness. I know this personally, as the more I was with GC, around its influence, the more I couldn't even understand my own. So I don't want to hear some GCer coming here telling me I'm being judgmental, either: I don't consider myself any good at all, nor better or superior, rather that I was quite guilty of participation, perhaps worse because my conscience kept saying "you know better".
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 04:03:37 am by theresearchpersona » Logged
lone gone
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 279



WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 05:35:14 am »

Brother... after reading your post I was struck by the fact that you have had an epiphany of sorts and are simply working your way past the powerful emotions. I have had these as well.... to suddenly be overwhelmed with , for instance, the realization that I was so misled.... or to be overwhelmed by gratitude that God in his infinite mercy has indeed led me out of that and into a new place.

I am sure Abraham had high expectations of the land that God was going to show him. Maybe when he got there is was a relief and he felt great joy. But then after a while it didn't seem so special... and then God asks him to do strange stuff like sacrifice his son etc.

Once we are freed from slavery it can result in a roller coaster of emotions. I have every confidence that our Heavenly Father is guiding you, guarding you, and blessing you.

In regards to the testimony of many in GC,  what we hear from them is intended for public consumption. It is about the same as we hear from many other assemblies where a "theology of Glory" is held to. No one wants to hear that someone was convicted of their utter sinfulness before God and had learned to cling to a bloody Jew on a rough old cross as their Savior. It's not dignified. It's not cool. But that is indeed the "theology of the Cross" and it is the truth.
Logged
theresearchpersona
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 418



« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 06:39:49 am »

p.s. I do want to make clear that those kinds of observations, that is, those stated above, I don't think they apply to absolutely every individual in particular, and I really do hope I'm just mistaken, or that the sheep are just weary and sick and unfed, so that really they'll repent of such things, of worldliness, friendship with the world, etc.. However, I also realize that, as said, I don't know that I trust or accept many of the professions. Some I definitely would, I believe: others, um... I won't, I guess you'd say, judge before the time, where it's unclear; I would say to GCers to examine themselves, and that the leaders who are teaching that 1 John is not for Christians are false teachers who need a boot to their rump out the door, (with crowds going before the crying "be warned, this man, ichabod") though they're the big influential guys too, and it's unlikely you'd ever find yourselves capable of doing anything about them within GC, perhaps ever.

Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2520



« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 08:14:11 am »

Quote from: lonegone
I have had these as well.... to suddenly be overwhelmed with , for instance, the realization that I was so misled.... or to be overwhelmed by gratitude that God in his infinite mercy has indeed led me out of that and into a new place.
I've been here, too.

I also connect with what TRP said. I always wrote it off as either the "seeker" mentality or showing them grace because they were "untrained" men. Once, someone took the Lord's name during a drama. We called them on that before the next service if I remember correctly, but most other things we let go.

It's funny, with all the emphasis on "character", there was a lot of "honest" talk from the pulpit that demonstrated lack of self control (again from some, not all). Leaders talking about getting mad and throwing things, habitually speeding and getting pulled over, I gave up on asking my kids to not use the word "sucks" because when your pastor uses it in sermons it makes it hard to enforce. There was lots of smoking and drinking. It's a great way to evangelize, you know?! (And I mean bourbon, gin, and whiskey not just beer).

Again, I overlooked all of this because of the log-speck thing, but looking back, I do think that the character argument for leaders was overrated in some. I say that not because I think they are horrible people, but really because no one who is not in the inner circle could ever really know a pastor except from what they said up front.

I am amused when I hear a leader say that you really shouldn't be listening to teachers if you don't know their "character" and imply that if you don't know them personally, they aren't qualified to be a teacher. Really! So, that would mean that everyone who attended Faithwalkers should not attend a seminar unless they personally knew the speaker and his family. It's funny how that gets overlooked. GC people are forrever listening to messages from people they don't know in the movement, but that's okay!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 09:00:28 am by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
EverAStudent
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 716



WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 10:49:12 am »

Quote from: researchguy
I'm sitting here flabbergasted, I don't know what it is, and I don't know if I ought to immediately fight this off, and re-establish desiring to go-back to renounce what is darkness, the men walking in it, and plead for repentance

You are facing up to the reality of that mix between survivor's guilty and relief of freedom.  You want to "save" the enslaved, yet, without becoming a slave all over again, how? 

Quote
I'm actually straining for words, they're lost on me. Thinking about them, I could cry right now, for what they're truly losing, the riches in Christ, God's glorious mercy, His freedom (from worldiness, friendship with the world, discernment-lessness, walking unwisely without the fear of the Lord, etc.).

 Cry

No one can force spiritual regeneration on another.  But we can petition the sovereign God who can!
Logged
theresearchpersona
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 418



« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 06:07:07 am »

Hey Puff, might you move this thread to the Healing forum area?
Logged
puff of purple smoke
Administrator
Household Name (300+ Posts)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 604



« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 07:45:37 am »

Hey Puff, might you move this thread to the Healing forum area?
Okay
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1