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Author Topic: Raising children/discipline; old GC* vs. the new GCC/GCAC  (Read 8927 times)
askingquestionsaboutGCI
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« on: March 18, 2008, 02:37:23 pm »

From my "Introduction" post:  With the change of leadership has (interestingly and oddly enough) come LESS of an emphasis on how to raise the kids, more acceptance of public/private schooling -- but at the same time, I've seen a HUGE increase in wild behavior by kids at church (of all ages), a few out of marriage pregnancies, and vocabulary used on and off podium that may be "culturally acceptable", but is offensive to many. [/b]

I'm not even sure exactly what my question is here -- I guess I'm wondering if people have seen differences in "styles" of parenting ideas in their churches over the past few years, and if so, what is the result?

I'm not a major fan of some of the "old" discipline ideas I've heard about from the early days of GC*.  However, when we first started attending (approx. 1990), the kids were CERTAINLY better behaved than they are now.  Is this a difference in philosophy, or were those kids scared/threatened into behaving?  I don't know......

The interesting thing I'm seeing is how the indoctrination of whatever someone desires turning into "God's Will" is filtering down to our teens.  I'm seeing all kinds of nonsense which is supposedly "God's will", and then the other teens will back them up as their "safety in a multitude of counselors".  Yikes -- it's scary......

For reasons that escape me, many of the kids at church feel free to tell me things that they don't discuss with other adults.  Just this past Sunday, one of the girls (about 19 or 20 years old) came over to tell me that she'd been "thinking and praying" and had made a decision to move to Texas.  Of course, her boyfriend moved there recently, but that "really had no part" in her decision -- yeah, right!!!  She said she missed her sister, who'd moved there after she married; said she could live with her, establish in-state residency, then got to the big university nearby; she was in the process of locating a job; and "all that was left" was to tell her parents!!!  YIKES AGAIN!!  Now I'm in the uncomfortable position of knowing about this before her parents do -- and I'm supposed to do WHAT with this information?  And this was no secret to the teens -- five of them were standing with her while she was telling me all of this, all of them nodding their heads in approval.

In the last several years, we've had at least five out-of-wedlock pregnancies (three of these from kids of the pastor team); one kid with huge issues about the law and drunk driving (again a kid of one of the pastors); one of the pastor's kids just got arrested recently for grand larceny (burglarizing local churches with a bunch of other kids?Huh); a huge move away from modest clothing; and so much more......

Are any of you seeing this in your GC churches, or is mine really an aberration?
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 02:52:32 am »

Sounds to me like you need to initiate the Biblical procedures to remove (permanently) those pastors: remember what it says about their children? Those guys fail.

Sounds harsh, but needs to be done.
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Immortal_Raven
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 11:02:55 am »

One idea here is the breaking point.  These kids could have been browbeaten/threatened/coerced into behaving.  Then they reached the teenage years.  And most teenagers have that point where they outright defy their parents.  And since these kids may have been suffocated for so long, it's liberating for them to misbehave.  It's also the path of least resistance.  So the kids may be just getting out all those feelings that they've had but were scared to act on.  

It's true the church may be becoming a little more tolerant on discipline.  I personally don't know.  I haven't attended a GC church in over 2 years.  Seriously though, I think part of it has to do with home schooling.  These kids are isolated from other kids their own age.  As a result, these kids are socially awkward and not prepared for when they enter society.  All of a sudden their "bubble" world pops.  Now they've got to deal with sex, drugs, rock and roll, crime, freedom, and a ton of other things.  Since they can't handle it, they turn to one of those vices like sex in the case of pregnancies, alcohol with the drunk driver, etc...  

Home school and small private schools can be good.  I went to a Christian school that was very strict.  But I also played soccer, ran track, and did other socially interactive things with peers.  But these kids tend to be isolated from everything.  I'm not a psychologist, it's only a hobby of mine.  But these kids' mal-adjusted social tendencies have a good chance of stemming from being coddled and suffocated as young children.  THat's just what I saw in my old church over 2 years ago.

As for the teenager say it was "God's Will" for her to move, I'm kind of at a loss for words.  Everyone in GC churches and several other churches will say that when it suits them.  Just pray for her and hope things turn out for the best.

-Immortal_Raven
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"They gave you lies, and in return you gave them hell."-Tears for Fears
"Chance favors the prepared mind." -unknown
lone gone
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2008, 07:01:53 am »

Having an Uncle who was a Lutheran minister and watching him deal with his five kids, I can comment on the PK ( pastor's kid) behavioral phenom.

 Kids break out and mis-behave, even kids of ministers. After they grew older all five of his kids went on to become church workers and caregivers. They all have done well.  

Today's youthful mis-behavior is worse than when I and my cousins were growing up. We didn't have as much sexual sin or drug involvement  35 years ago. That isn't to say it didn't happen.

King David by inspiration of the Holy Spirit spoke about his contrition regarding his youthful sins.

What is happening in today's world is that we are simultaneously becoming more tolerant and more shocked by bad behavior. It's the same behavior we have always had around us but it's more public and more blatant.

 The behavior of an individual can be projected onto the parent unfairly. How about considering the quality of parenting we receive from God our Father? Can we accuse God of not having parented us well when We mis-behave?

Each person has their own lessons to learn.
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askingquestionsaboutGCI
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2008, 07:44:26 am »

Let me see if I can a bit more accurate in my history here -- when the previous (long-time GC* leaders) were leading this church -- they were the ones homeschooling, had the fairly-well behaved children, etc.  That was part of the reason we even joined this church in the first place -- as we were already a slightly larger-than-average family, homeschooling our kids, we felt like we'd found kindred spirits, and that we fit right in.  

At some point in time, some of the leadership took a new turn in the homeschooling outlook -- and this turn didn't seem to originate in our church, but from the GC* organization "out there somewhere".  Seemed like the new "trend" in GC* was to put our high schoolers out in the public schools to "be witnesses".  I never felt there was any conviction or thought as to whether public school or homeschooling would be better for the individual child -- just that as a group, they should be out there witnessing to the masses.  

At that time, at least 3 of our 4 current leaders were NOT pastors in the church.  That's when two of those families put their kids into public schools, and the troubles began for those families. And as our church moved more and more into being "relevant" to the community, it seems like the influence on our high schoolers has been more to pull everyone DOWN instead of our kids pulling everyone UP.  Does that make any sense?

I guess my concern is that somehow this church has made a journey that went from well-behaved, respectful children to kids who are over-the-top independent, mouthy, immodest, and getting into plenty of trouble -- and I'm GUESSING it concerns the leadership -- I'm HOPING it concerns the leadership -- but I'm sure not seeing any signs of that concern.  In fact, the other concern of mine is that over the last few years, there has been LESS adult influence in the young people's group, and a lot more student "leadership" -- and to me, it feels like the blind leading the blind.  I think that kids of this age are usually not mature enough spiritually or emotionally to be leading and mentoring people close to their same age.

It just seems like in the area of parenting, this particular GC church made a polar-opposite leap, somehow missing the middle ground that I think we should've found!!  I'm not arguing FOR or AGAINST either homeschooling or public schooling; both have their place.  It just seems to me that once the decision was made to put these kids in school, somehow everybody decided that the kids were mature enough to handle all the decisions, pressures, etc of school on their own -- it was like the parents started backing off instead of being involved in the day-to-day stuff of the kids' lives.

And that's kind of why I put out the original question -- since it seemed like this "high school kids as witnesses" phenomen was GC-wide, not just MY church, I was wondering if other churches had seen any kind of disintegration of standards within their own teen groups.

And I also have conflicting opinions about the issue of leaders who can't seem to lead/control their own families -- some of those families issues happened after these men stepped into leadership, but some of them were already occurring BEFORE they were appointed as pastors -- and we as a church never had any chance to really do anything about it.  There was supposedly a brief "comment period" where you could write in with any concerns about these men's abilitiies to be leaders -- and though I sent in an anonymous concern, the party line at time of ordination was that they were unanimously chosen by the church.  Huh??

Anyway, I'm rambling......
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2008, 10:14:06 am »

Yep -- our local GCC church believes in putting kids in public school in MIDDLE school.  They give pressure if you go against the flow (home schooling or private Christian school) from what I have heard.
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lone gone
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2008, 12:53:02 pm »

The "church members as witnesses" concept had another weird permutation back in the 1980's. Jim McCotter and the other Ames leaders urged us all to attend local mainline churches to make friends and attract people to the Ames Fellowship Church. I attended a local Lutheran church since that was my former denomination. That lasted for about 2 months before I quit going to the Lutheran church. the reason I quit going?  It was making more sense than the GC church, the people were more real, and I was feeling guilt for even considering leaving God's chosen plan for me.

On the topic of home schooling.The AFC church also urged parents to home school.  I even went so far as to re-enroll at  Iowa State University and take Elementary Ed courses so that I could get a degree and Iowa certification so I could home school my kids.

Political activism was urged in 1976 when Jimmy Carter ran for President and many campaigned for him in Iowa. One brother got a job in Washington DC as a congressional staffer and he was heralded as someone we could emulate.  Around this time Jim McCotter started getting cozy with the Political Right Wing and became involved with the think tank he currently remains a member of.  I can remember when we went to Kansas City  to protest ( witness) at the Republican National Convention.
Jim and Dennis and others got passes to the convention and he made plans to unfurl banners from the top balcony urging the delegates to "Vote for God, Vote for Jesus". Even to a true believer , it seemed weird.

Around the time I left (1982) , the church's leaders were urging everyone back to college. College educated people made more money( so more could be given to God), They were respected in the community ( so you could relate better and your menial job wouldn't be a hindrance to the Gospel),and they wouldn't be a burden to the church ( since they could get medical insurance and not be financially strapped by medical conditions).

The whole history of the movement and it's teachings is a series of twists and turns, doctrinal winds and waves,  and pure Situational Theology.
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