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Author Topic: Single Women  (Read 5088 times)
Genevieve
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« on: February 21, 2009, 11:27:24 pm »

In the "General letter from former leaders of GCI to concerned people and groups" (http://www.gcxweb.org/Misc/GCIFormerLeadersLetter.aspx), they mentioned the role of single sisters as a doctrinal eccentricity. What was that role? I've heard a little about single women helping with leaders' families. Is there more? What did this "helping" involve?

I did hear from a pastor's wife once about two single women who did her grocery shopping for her every week. When I asked why (perhaps a little rudely), she looked at me with wide eyes, blinked, and said, "Well, gosh, I think they just wanted to bless us."

Can anyone tell me more about this? Is stuff like this still going on?
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Linda
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 06:58:22 am »

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When I asked why (perhaps a little rudely), she looked at me with wide eyes, blinked, and said, "Well, gosh, I think they just wanted to bless us."
This is interesting. I honestly believe this woman probably thought that. I don't think GC elders see that the system they have set up is one where people are forever "serving" the pastors and not necessarily fellow church members.

This isn't unique to GC. I remember reading on John Piper's blog. In passing he mentioned that some ladies from the church clean his house. Now, I tried to put the best construction on it and thought, maybe there are some ladies in his church who need jobs and he is hiring them to meet a need they both have.

My husband wrote a note to the blog guru guy mentioning that it didn't really look good for a pastor to have members of the church cleaning for the pastor and the response was, "Not to worry, he doesn't make them work, they really want to serve him." The response made it worse.

Why don't people ever want to serve the mom with the special needs kid, or the elderly Alzheimer's neighbor who is mean. In churches where positions come from being "recognized" everyone wants to serve the pastor. Hmmmmmm.
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 08:25:06 am »

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Why don't people ever want to serve the mom with the special needs kid, or the elderly Alzheimer's neighbor who is mean. In churches where positions come from being "recognized" everyone wants to serve the pastor. Hmmmmmm.

Isn't this the case???  I do think the reason is to be recognized.  Single "sisters" in GC mostly are looking for marriage.  They will get the recognition and deemed worthy if they are serving.  Who best to serve?  But the elders wives. 

I did this for years.  I went to a leaders house, cleaned and helped grocery shop -- 1x a week for years.  I thought I was a best friend to this woman who incidentally dropped me the moment I left the church -- wouldn't call me or visit when they came in from out of town (after they left for another GC church). 

Servanthood is taught prolifically at GC -- yet I noticed church members didn't get served just the ones in leadership!! 

Now, years later in a different church -- I have the special needs kids and have asked for help in various ways.  The only way the church knows to help famlies with special needs kids is to pray for them. 
 



 
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Genevieve
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 09:35:27 am »

I'd forgotten about the connection between being recognized as godly and getting married. Silly me.

What was it like with the family? How were you treated? Was it your idea to "serve" this family, or were you asked (or preached at?)? What kind of stuff did they ask you to do? Did they ever offer to pay? Was it some way of fulfilling a "woman's role"?

Did single men ever pitch in to help a family?

I'm sorry they dropped you like that after they left town, and I'm also sorry nobody has stepped up to help you. Yuck.

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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 01:17:52 pm »

I was treated nicely by this leadership family.  Really, it was my choice -- but it was espoused by GC as being Godly and one of the things they always told single sisters to do.  I cleaned for this family, grocery shopped and of course watched her kids while she went out for I'm thinking at least 4 years.  I was never paid nor was it ever offered.  I can't imagine this has changed -- servanthood is one of their main values. 

No -- of course single men never served in this capacity.  They would serve by being a leader or a group, or discipling men, or serving at the church level.   

Definitely this was fulfilling a woman's role.  I was told at a point when I was thinking of going back to school not to bother because I would just get married and have children....  All the things I regret mainly was listening to their counsel!!  (and of course staying with this church for too many years!)
 
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anonymoustoday
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 02:03:53 pm »

This is a very complicated issue, not cut, cleaned, and dried.  Our GC leaders (long time ago) kept what amounted to singles dorms in their homes.  Each dorm "resident" (single men or women) paid rent, which in turn paid for the house for the leadership.  The leadership wives often did the household cooking and house work.  The single men did house upkeep (repairs to the house, cars, yard work, etc.), gratis. 

One elder wife babysat for a very poor family in the church since the husband worked his minimum wage job full time and the wife tried to finish her college degree.  The elder wife charged a fair wage for the service, and it did help the poor family, but I also know that they spent 25% of their meager income (all their disposable income) on this service.

One day, one of the elders spent the sermon yelling at our 40 member church for not giving enough money to fully support the elders and allow them to be full time in the ministry instead of making them do part time jobs on the side.  Let's see, free housing (the singles paid the rent), no house or car maintenance fees (the single men did that work), and the elders (each with a gaggle of kids) wanted to be able to be supported and financially indendent for the rest of their expenses through the giving of only 40 rather poor people. 

Service.  Servitude.  Whoever wants to be the leader must be the servant of all.  Ah, it's a young movement, they're still working on it.
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Genevieve
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 05:04:04 pm »

Oh wow. That's crazy to think that 40 people would completely support the elders who are already receiving rent and free services from the people! Yes, the difference between service and servitude. Very important distinction!
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Captain Bible
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 09:22:27 am »

For the status of single women in Gcx lets refer to Captain Bibles',

  GC Pyramid of Power!


                Church leadership Man

          Church worker Man              
                                   Church worker Man (single)
             Woman under the men        

           Single woman under every one
                            

Key:
(In order of importance)

Church leadership Man
: Pastor, Elders, Male staffers

Church worker Men:Evangelists, Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Blue collar stiffs, and Lackeys.

Church worker Men (single):Evangelists, Collage students in line to become high wage earner, Single hard workers,
Singles who want to be hard workers, Slackers, Sloths, and finally Unmotivated bottom feeders.   Wink

Woman under man: Mothers and Wives

Single woman under every one: Single Woman Staffer, Older high wage earner submissive woman. Young Beautiful talented submissive women, Slightly less Beautiful talented submissive women, talented submissive women, Submissive women, homely submissive women....      

...ending with rebellious independent women of any kind.

In Gc children have no power so I do not include them in the list.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 09:25:07 am by Captain Bible » Logged

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Rebekah
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2011, 07:43:28 pm »

So true! Great analysis!

I would argue, however, that a beautiful, single staffer woman is higher up than a homely woman not married to a leader.
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Ned_Flanders
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 11:06:09 am »

Definitely this was fulfilling a woman's role.  I was told at a point when I was thinking of going back to school not to bother because I would just get married and have children....  All the things I regret mainly was listening to their counsel!!  (and of course staying with this church for too many years!)

Now that I'm the father of two girls, there is no question I would encourage them to get a college- and more, if needed- education.  I absolutley hope they get married and it would be great if they married men with incomes that could support them and their children.  But I think it is so important for a woman to support herself in case she doesn't get married or, especially, she needs to get away from a bad marriage.  

I don't think tere is anything wrong at all with GCx's worldview of families where the man works and the woman is a stay-at-homeschooling mom for the kids.  Just one thing- IT'S NOT FOR EVERYBODY!!!
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