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Author Topic: Swerver  (Read 12273 times)
theresearchpersona
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« on: January 05, 2008, 10:43:34 pm »

Some of the attraction to the GCM teachings on courtship comes from people having messed-up in their past in sinful relationships.

I know this from knowing GCMers (friends). Not all taught is wrong, though the manipulative, arranged, or other odd-ball things may be. I know, for instance, a young woman who completely regrets that she ever dated a guy: that's a piece of her heart gone. Another man I know is hoping that he will not even kiss a woman for being his sister, "because that's gross", and so he's trying to completely save himself for marriage.

These are commendable, and even Biblical, convictions. I'm glad for these things, and am myself hoping for the same, though I'd very much like to get to know a young lady before marrying her, just not beyond the proper boundaries, of course.

What I'm interested in, though. With all the comments on messed-up teachings on courtship/dating, what aspects are wrong, and what from God's Word can properly be applied to those instances? I'm not only interested in official teaching, but also those which have passed-through the crowd and entered their hearts and minds.

Further, what about the GCM definitions and teachings concerning "favoritism", for which young men and women who take an interest in one another get rebuked for. What's right/wrong here?

Seriousness, please. And thanks all for even any consideration.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2008, 09:09:39 am »

All I can say about favorites is the Jesus had favorites.  He had an inner circle of disciples He loved and spent the most time with.

I think it naturally follows that we might have favorites ourselves... people we click with and enjoy spending time with.  I don't appreciate GCM's message that any time you are showing preference it is wrong.
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puff of purple smoke
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2008, 10:02:13 am »

The "Swerver" sermon was taken to such an extreme at my GC church that mid-way through my time there, the small group leaders decided to pass a rule that no guy and girl could be in the same room alone together without each of them bringing another guy and girl along with them. It was truly legalism gone crazy. And the same reasoning was used, the no partiality verse.

And yet, partiality happens all the time in GC. Small group leaders are partial to the people they are discipling when they meet with them privately. People living in GC communal houses are partial to their roommates, because they end up spending more time with them than with people who don't live there. Small group leaders are partial to their co-leaders, having leaders-only meetings.
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Linda
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2008, 10:18:33 am »

Quote
he will not even kiss a woman for being his sister, "because that's gross", and so he's trying to completely save himself for marriage

So, when they get married, she will no longer be his "sister" in the Lord?!

Quote
Further, what about the GCM definitions and teachings concerning "favoritism", for which young men and women who take an interest in one another get rebuked for.


I've always thought that the "favoritism" verses used to defend "courtship" were interesting coming from a group that doesn't seem to mind "favoritism" when it comes to commitment to the group for the rest of your life!

If the church is the body of Christ, being committed to one small part of it for the rest of your life is the ultimate favoritism in my book. It's the ultimate partiality!

Quote
the small group leaders decided to pass a rule that no guy and girl could be in the same room alone together without each of them bringing another guy and girl along with them.


This reminds me of something I read on courtship by a pastor who said that he had failed as a father if his daughter couldn't be trusted to chat with a guy in the church parking lot or share a cup of coffee with him at Starbuck's without proper supervision.

Also, what about people who are tempted by homosexuality? The small group leaders probably didn't think of that or they would have made a rule that no one can be alone with anyone else, ever!
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2008, 09:09:56 pm »

Yeah,

   well I admire the conviction the guy has anyways, as it's one he formed and holds...it's also something I appreciate. Personally I don't want to go kiss a gal and then break up...unmarried, it could happen; married...and I've entered a covenant with a woman before God (one of the few sanctioned) which requires we NOT break. I think his thinking on that, though, (not kissing a sister), is that one she's "just" (and he very much values that sisters) a sister, whereas in the other relation there is no dobut the sanction (as she's his wife).

   I agree about the favoritism thing, though; and as an aside it's fine to want to stay with people in being their friends, and in fellowship, etc.. But sometimes we do need to move, or take care of responsibilities, or think about family...and if one is able to find and test a Church that checks-out and is sound doctrinally etc. then that's even better: now one could go AND find an environment that's faithful, and able to provide teaching and examples for the family (though frankly I think a "biblical" church is one found after the search of a lifetime anymore).

On that note, what kind of scriptures apply to the "c
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Daisy
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2008, 10:08:49 pm »

At the GC church I attended it is only "right" to spend time with one member of the opposite sex alone if you are courting them (a short dating period before marriage) or if you in leadership with him/her.  This probably accounts for the number of leadership duos that end up courting and married.  Situations which include a young woman and a pastor are included, another women or man is usually involved so that the pastor and woman are not in the same room alone together.
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lone gone
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2008, 02:47:01 pm »

Dear Research Persona and others

all I can say you certainly do NOT understand the will of God in this matter.

Your simple minded questions show a complete lack of maturity in spite of your obvious enormous learning. There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. You long for purity while thinking that it will lead to a lack of trouble later on.  Do you honestly think that God rejects anyone who doesn't lead a perfect life? Do you think that God blesses only the perfect?

You are behaving like Saul... you may one day be broken and become Paul.

You so much remind me of myself back then!!!!! I asked all the same questions and found out that God isn't nearly as precise as I wanted Him to be.

 Go and learn the meaning of these words.   " He who is forgiven much, loves much."
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randomous
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2008, 10:21:42 pm »

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus say "Go and sin no more"?
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skewed_grace
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2008, 10:00:02 am »

There were five of us in the room: two guys and three girls. One of the girls needed to go get something from her car. Since it was dark, a chivalrous thought of accompanying her momentarily crossed our minds.

"Sarah, i will go with you!", said the other guy, to which the two remaining girls looked at each other perplexed.

"John", quietly but with a sense of authority said Rachel. "i will go with you guys", she added. But before they shut the door, John wisely noticed that there were just me and the other girl left in the room.

Off five of us went to get the purse from the car. The balance was restored!

p.s. all the names are fictitious
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2008, 11:15:54 am »

The fox, goose, and sack of corn puzzle would be good preparation for these situations.   Smiley
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Immortal_Raven
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 03:03:40 pm »

All these rules and regulations made my head hurt.  I went to a men's overnigher at the church I used to attend, kind of a male-bonding thing.  We played Halo, dodgeball, arm-wrestling, etc...  Then in the morning we had a talk about proper rules for interacting with the opposite sex.  They gave us an 8 page handout with several hundred bullet points about "favoritism", "courting" , "Dating" and anything else.  So I read through it and discovered that I'd broken over half of these guidelines.  

So I started wonding what to do.  I starting showing this list to friends outside the church.  They laughed.  Over 100 people and not a single one of them agreed with it.  Then I talked to a friend with a psychology degree.  He offered the suggestion that these rules are for extremely weak-minded people.  I thought about it, and concluded he was partially right.  I'm not saying all the guidelines were bad, but some were ludicrous and symptoms of sin.  

For example, spending time alone with a women may send the wrong message.  The outright tell her the right message.  Tell her, "Hey, I just want to hang out as friends, nothing implied or expected." If she can't handle it or things become uncomfortable, then address the problem.  I have several female friends who love talking to me because I'm not trying to go out with them.  I'm a good friend they can talk to and get a guy's perspective from.

The getting permission from church leadership also seems wrong.  It's almost like an arranged marriage.  I saw so many couples struggling with a new marriage because they didn't know each other at all beforehand.  Then I saw my roommate and his girlfriend, both non-Christians, behaving better and in my opinion more godly as a couple than any of these "arranged marriages" I knew my wife for 7 years before marriage and we still have issues from time to time.

Also, it seems like courtship means that the marriage is a done deal.  I didn't see anyone start courting that didn't end up married.  Now I don't like seeing breakups or people getting "dumped", but I do think that some of these people could have benefitted from it.  I know people who have been dumped and people who haven't, and the ones who have deal with adversity a lot better.  I'll see if I still have that list so as to post it on here.

-Immortal_Raven
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"They gave you lies, and in return you gave them hell."-Tears for Fears
"Chance favors the prepared mind." -unknown
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