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Author Topic: Women and GC  (Read 251968 times)
MidnightRider
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« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2008, 08:24:25 am »

Quote from: "theresearchpersona"
...
I AM in a situation where I'm having to try to be faithful and not train-wreck a gal while also dealing with the GC stuff: I'm around the Christians...I'm not participating, however, with GC...and when I'm around the GC I'm there guarding, say, the unbelievers that might be there from being taken captive, and there talking to them about the Bible and contering anything unbiblical that I might.
...
GC thinks we're the enemy...they don't seem to get that many here are just very much concerned...and protesting all that's unbiblical.
Persona,

You know the situation better than any of us so anything I say is just advice. And I apologize in advance for poking at a sore spot.

I would like for you to look ahead 10-15 years. You will very likely be in a situation where you have alienated the girl so much she left you, and GCx got tired of your resistance and "encouraged" you to exit their fellowship. How will you feel then?
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namaste
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« Reply #141 on: June 28, 2008, 04:13:34 pm »

What's wrong, boys?  Don't like that women make up 51% of the electorate? :wink:

Oxford Researcher: Men Will Be Extinct in 125,000 years
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=4725121&page=1

Looks like GC better revise its position on females and leadership...if they want their "non-denominational-denomination" to survive.  :lol:
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Om, shanti.
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« Reply #142 on: January 04, 2010, 09:16:47 pm »

Yes, I agree with the original post. My GC church didn't know what to do with all of the older intelligent, ambitious, outspoken single women.

We'd been with the movement for several years, but as we grew up, grew in confidence, acquired the ability to think critically and think for ourselves, and gained a greater understanding of our freedom and power in Christ, we found that it went both ways. GC didn't know what to do with us, and we didn't know what to do with GC. We wanted to pursue lives that didn't center around men or children. We wanted to learn, flourish, and grow into our potential, as full & equal members of a community. So we left. We found other communities where we could flourish. My current (non-gcm) church is pretty egalitarian, but still committed to intelligently pursuing biblical truth, a much better fit for me.

But blessings on those of you who are sticking around & trying to affect change within a GC church. You're more patient than I am.
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Rebekah
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« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2010, 09:45:33 pm »

I'm glad you left. It really goes to show what a church is (and isn't) made of when only certain categories of people can fit in. What is this, a social club? hehehe They always made a jab about church being nothing more than a social club at "other" churches.
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #144 on: January 23, 2010, 01:20:33 pm »

Looks like GC better revise its position on females and leadership...if they want their "non-denominational-denomination" to survive.  :lol:

They would be unbiblical to do so.

However, it's not as though any level or part or aspect of their leadership is biblical already: any part that even appears to be, at first, is twisted. Besides that, however, I found that in the DT's, despite the official positions on things, women had authority over men all the time. Besides that, women were also permitted to be leadership over women even officially--which is okay...if they're seasoned older women: these were not, so they just helped perpetuate immaturity, and sometimes a haughtiness--I know a certain one that told puff "you're following the devil" after he dared asked whether anything they (who built this site) had said was deceptive/lying, untrue, and she could not; then again, she may have just been repeating a line the higher-ups said of those who built this thing.

Oxford Researcher: Men Will Be Extinct in 125,000 years
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=4725121&page=1

And although I understand your joking reasons for bringing this up I want to help put an old myth to rest. This is a very old myth, not grounded in science, but like many scientific "proclamations" keeps getting picked-up and re-cited. It's also outdated matter: the Y, despite its minute size, was the iron man of genes to sequence because it's recursive; the researchers who accomplished this described it (and much simpler than it really is) as looking at thousands of New York cities where the only difference were a couple of mail boxes in each. The Y, unlike other chromosomes, like a mirror-in-a-mirror, is able without a partnered chromosome to repair itself: so the coming demise of men is far over exaggerated.

Speaking of which, I actually considered in school writing a paper on a chicken-and-the-egg problem regarding sexes that, if evolution held, men would have to have been first: sure, Adam-and-Evecome to mind first for sure to anyone who'd encounter that paper, but on a genetic basis it would be quite serious if one has no pre-commitments to evolutionary philosophy into which to force the data to fit. It doesn't quite have to do with the Y, but that could be part of the reasoning too, if one really wanted to give extra detail.


« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 01:30:54 pm by theresearchpersona » Logged
Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #145 on: June 27, 2018, 09:22:35 am »

I just found this thread and much of what was expressed here was my experience as a woman in GCC, hence my username.  I didn't fit in to the quiet, submissive, "don't threaten people with female intelligence" role so my pastor literally wrote to me, what was supposed to be affectionately, that I was a "rebel, but in a good way."  I honestly wasn't sure how to take that at the time because being a rebel in GCC certainly wasn't a good thing.   Undecided

At any rate, I think that many of the issues mentioned in this thread (I have not read through all the pages yet so I hope there's nothing super weird in the middle) are part of the reason ECC is in trouble today dealing with the abuse of women and subsequent cover-up, all by pastors.  I know some Christians here are complementarian, but that can look very different and I am not making generalizations about that approach even though I disagree with it.  But I think in GCC "complementarianism" looks like the subservience and inequality of women.  Which is what allows abuse to flourish.  I pray that this issue with abuse will give them pause to consider how women are viewed and treated in their movement.  Because when a male pastor can abuse women sexually and other male leaders not only fail to stop him from doing so, but also adamantly praise and defend him shaming the victims, this sends a clear message about who is valued in GCC.  It ain't women.  And it's not really the sheep either. 
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PietWowo
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« Reply #146 on: July 19, 2018, 10:14:56 pm »

OK, maybe this stuff is taught more openly, Yikes!

What is the big deal with submission anyway? This church is completely obsessed with the topic. Read the gospels I don’t think this issue even comes up. How about just have a normal church where people aren’t ordered around by rank and gender.

There is more to the Bible then just the 4 Gospels, which would need to understand in light of the Old Testament anyways. Besides that, you don't even accept the Word of God as such.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #147 on: July 20, 2018, 07:23:11 am »

There is no requirement on this forum that people adhere to any set of religious beliefs and certainly not that they share yours.  And even if people profess a certain faith, some random stranger who is trolling a forum is not going to be considered the authority on the interpretation of their sacred texts anyway. 

This is cult-like thinking.  "you're in the out-group because you don't believe the right things" and "I have more knowledge than you."  Excuse me, I mean cult leader-like thinking.  Being a cult involves more than just "doctrine," contrary to your opinion.



OK, maybe this stuff is taught more openly, Yikes!

What is the big deal with submission anyway? This church is completely obsessed with the topic. Read the gospels I don’t think this issue even comes up. How about just have a normal church where people aren’t ordered around by rank and gender.

There is more to the Bible then just the 4 Gospels, which would need to understand in light of the Old Testament anyways. Besides that, you don't even accept the Word of God as such.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #148 on: March 08, 2023, 06:02:17 pm »


For Women Formerly in the GCx Culture


I wished I had learned this at the beginning of my journey walking with Christ. It would have encouraged me not to feel like a second class christian. It would have caused me not to squelch the Holy Spirit’s voice when it didn’t mesh with man’s voice. It would have helped me not to suppress and significantly alter my personality to please much mistaken men, but instead be myself and the spirit-gifted person God was calling me to be.

This message on GRACE & GRIT is so for us -women formerly in GCx. (But, if these aren’t your personal convictions, that’s okay.) The first of four parts “Tap Into Divine Strength” (25 minutes) from Living Proof’s GRACE and GRIT Conference is SO ENCOURAGING and MOTIVATING. It resonates with me through and through. We don’t need to throw away our confidence because some GCx leaders belittled it. Who are they?!? We are who God says we are and can do what God says we can do.

Especially now, in the light of how John MacArthur and others have wrongly counseled and treated women in their congregations, we can be awakened to the ‘strength and might of God and put on our blood bought robes of dignity’ as Moore as explains. I hope you are inspired and built up by this Bible study lesson from Beth Moore on being a saavy women of God.


Grace and Grit - Part One - Beth Moore

https://youtu.be/LU2uvpJUCwY


« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 08:18:14 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2023, 08:14:20 pm »



I got incredibly indoctrinated into the Pearls' "Created to Be His Helpmeet" books through GCM.

I should add that I was at GCM through our whole marriage--starting at Mosaic, that met in a movie theater, and ending at Linworth Road Church in Columbus. ... I don't think anyone in leadership "out-and-out" told me that women were supposed to be relegated to nursery work and cooking---but women were generally only doing nursery work and cooking. Those of us who were working hard in other areas were just kind've ...weird.  I couldn't fit in, I couldn't identify with the other women there, and I honestly thought it was alllll my fault. ...

I feel like I came into a group that didn't really shake off the spectre of the early teachings of GCM about the role of women.  Or maybe they still totally embraced these teachings, and just thought they were "expected" or "normal" for "Christian" women. ...

I joined a community called "No Longer Quivering," a secular group for people coming out of the Quiverfull or Patriarchy movements, and for the first time, heard that GCM was an active supporter of things like Shepherding, Patriarchy, and extreme oppression of women.  I was honestly shocked.  All that time we were in GCM, about six years, I'd NEVER heard that GCM had any sort of checkered past, or had to "heal" from or repent of abusive practices.  I truly love and respect the [M’s], and lots of other people in the church....but......I'm really surprised that no one every even spoke of the church's past. ...

I spent four years of my life trying to live that book.  Now, after only two or three days of knowing, "GCM was pretty wacky, even though Linworth was a lot LESS wacky," I feel like years of guilt and shame have been lifted off my shoulders.  I feel more and more like I can be myself, without having to apologize for it.  Yes, I'm strong, outspoken, bold, female, and....geeky and weird.  And that's not somehow "wrong" or "less feminine" or "less Godly" than anyone else there.

-Taylor




« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 07:46:20 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #150 on: July 14, 2023, 05:46:04 pm »



I attended one of the newest church plants, RW's current [GCx] church in Manhattan, KS…  It has been quite enlightening to see that my observations/the fact that some of the teachings gave me the wibblies weren't all that far off base. … I started attending back at the beginning of Summer 09, when the church was about a year old. … I no longer attend, but I have a number of friends who do and I am fairly concerned about them.

The main problem that I had was with the attitude towards women that I started picking up on a few months in. … I'm not really the leader sort, but I think that a church should listen when a woman had something to say, because I do believe that God speaks to women and does reveal revelations to either gender.

Another problem I had was the fact that while most of the congregation are college age, relatively few attend college.  I have to admit, they're getting better about it, but I feel like they're all constantly on the verge of dropping out.  For a while there it was pretty bad, the young men in the group kept dropping out and jumping from job to job.  They seem to be headed in the education route for now, but it's all temporary, which leads into a third frustrating thing.  My friends came from a wide range of backgrounds, and, as far as I could tell, had a wide range of goals in mind.  All of a sudden, they're all feeling the call to church plant.  Which is why all the educational goals are short-lived, because they'll be headed to Lawrence, KS (another nearby college town) or Wichita, KS within the next two years to plant churches there.  There really isn't much room within the church for any dreams or goals other than to spread Great Commission churches.

Another friend of mine recently made the "migration" (escape?) from the GCC church to the church that I've been attending since this summer, and we got to talking about the church we had been attending and GCC.  My friend wasn't feeling the call to church plant, and would have been totally willing to stay and build up the church that would be staying, but eventually my friend got frustrated because the church had nothing for them to do. I hadn't even heard about all the scandal in GCC's past, (not surprising, considering how much they seem to smooth over it), but many of the old complaints resonated.

I would hope that my friends would see through it if I were labelled as someone to avoid…

…for a while I tried to figure out how I felt about the teachings regarding dating and the roles of women in a church and marriage, and to try to conform my views with that of GCx policy, but I'm just not that type and I couldn't smother my own personality enough to become the meek little wife they expected.  I plan on having a career in the field that I firmly believe God has called me to…

-ResistingTheResistance,   2010



« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 06:05:27 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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