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Author Topic: A New Question for ECC Supporters  (Read 27431 times)
araignee19
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2018, 12:15:36 pm »

I will reply with my favorite new word.....Ad Hominem!

So then no answer to my followup questions? Sad
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 12:20:14 pm »

I am discussing attendee and former attendees?HuhHuhHuhHuh? Ok then. If you say so.


Yes.  Us.  Tearing us apart.  Judging us.  For discussing church and sermons and leadership practices. 

You are so far into group think, you can’t even speak logically about this. 


Apart from the recent Suzanne stuff, which is a whole other animal, the difference between the people who post here analyzing GCx practices and those who post against them is that there isn’t even an attempt by you folks to understand or analyze.  And you think if you shame us we’ll just suddenly give in to your commands and be quiet. This ain’t GC, babe.  We don’t have to do that anymore. 
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Greentruth
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2018, 04:28:06 pm »

Hey, Isthisreal, since you aren't gone like you said you would be, would you mind answering the followup questions I posted instead of continuing to use ad hominem attacks again? Kinda curious your thoughts.

Seems to me you had made the statement you wouldn’t engage us big bad ECC supporters anymore. Sorry, couldn’t resist. This form is evil,it keeps drawing us back again and again and again and: you know what I mean. Not to make light of this, but it is obvious when the handful of regulars here get the opportunity, they gang up and let the talking points fly
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araignee19
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2018, 04:52:50 pm »

Actually, I didn't say I wouldn't engage with any ECC supporters. I said I would no longer respond to Jeremy, DLM, HughHoney (supposedly a Suzanne supporter, by the way), and Arrogantcat, and I don't think I have. I also said I would not respond to anyone who acted like them, but that I would likely respond to posts where it seemed the person wanted to have honest discussion. So far, you have not gone to the terrible extremes those people did, so you are not lumped in with those people in my mind. Yet. Getting closer.

I disagree this forum is evil. But since you think it is, let's get back to the topic of this thread and see who can give me a good explanation of how your participation on it is different than mine. So are you going to answer my return questions, or continue attacking the asker and forum regulars?
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 04:54:56 pm »

Hey Araignee, what year did you leave your GC church?  Wink
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Greentruth
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2018, 07:35:06 pm »

Actually, I didn't say I wouldn't engage with any ECC supporters. I said I would no longer respond to Jeremy, DLM, HughHoney (supposedly a Suzanne supporter, by the way), and Arrogantcat, and I don't think I have. I also said I would not respond to anyone who acted like them, but that I would likely respond to posts where it seemed the person wanted to have honest discussion. So far, you have not gone to the terrible extremes those people did, so you are not lumped in with those people in my mind. Yet. Getting closer.

I disagree this forum is evil. But since you think it is, let's get back to the topic of this thread and see who can give me a good explanation of how your participation on it is different than mine. So are you going to answer my return questions, or continue attacking the asker and forum regulars?

I guess you didn’t see the sarcasm I meant in the evil form comment,not to make light of this? But getting close...   I answered your question, and only commented on you post criticizing another for coming back after saying wouldn’t. Tell me though, when a form buddy goes off topic, nothing said. But if someone responds to that form buddy they get rebuked? And I haven’t seen anyone who doesn’t go off topic. Sorry, off topic again
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araignee19
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« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2018, 08:32:05 pm »

No, I did not see sarcasm, so thank you for clarifying. Sarcasm is very difficult to express in written communication. 

I have said things to many "forum buddies" both in private messages and openly. Once on this thread actually. Started entire threads about things I think my "forum buddies" were doing wrong (presumption of innocence thread, for example). I love civil disagreements and discussion, and I just truly do want to see both "sides" act mature and godly in this, even if we disagree. I do think both "sides" could be better at this, but I honestly do see a lot more personal attacks (as opposed to attacking ideas) towards the forum regulars than I see from them, which is why I maybe call the ECC "side" out a bit more publicly.

But yes, that is off topic. I absolutely wish everyone would be better at staying on topic. I could improve this myself, and I am making an intentional effort lately (hence my efforts to keep this thread from being derailed).

So getting back on topic, I still am not sure why you think this website is an offensive attack, vs defensive (or even passive). Would you try to clarify a bit more?
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Greentruth
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« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2018, 09:47:42 pm »

I just wrote a half hour response and timed out, so this is going to be short and to the point. What is accused by some here is a lie much of the time. I was there when the door opened, just as an example, and no matter how you want to spin it, the door was opened. Some of the accusations are so over the top, with cult even entering in. Simply, a few have an agenda to take the church down, of that I’m convinced. And the ones who have been duped, are those that follow blindly, some who have never even entered the building. I look forward to leaving this form, for good. It’s not a healthy place.
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Greentruth
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2018, 08:00:17 am »

One other thought. Much of what is accused here reminds me of this charismatic church up by the small town I grew up. The locals gossip non stop, did you hear what he said, he did, how much money he gave and I bet the Church gives it back. Scam to get out of paying taxes, eve. Though a new ministry building goes up. I asked a pastor his opinion of this church once. He said I think your in the right place, but he said not to judge another church. God has many different ways He reaches the lost. If someone raised a hand during hymn singing in the church I grew up, they would have labeled you looney.

I think a very good way to assess being involved in what this form pushes, would be to ask your current pastor or a clergy you know if this is good. I would bet any amount of money, the vast majority of pastors, clergy or Bible teachers would say this is not a healthy activity. Actually I would make the challenge to anyone to discuss this with their pastor, and ANY pastor that would advocate this activity be posted to bolster what you say is good here. Any Bible teaching pastor.
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Huldah
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2018, 08:38:10 am »

The slander and gossip going on is against my church family. My FAMILY. It is way bigger than Mark and Suzanne drama that I know nothing about.

I haven't been around the forum for a couple of days, but I've been thinking about this remark.

Leaving aside the issue of whether this forum deals in gossip or slander (I believe it does neither; we try to be truthful and accurate here), you're overlooking an important point: if you're a born-again Christian, then we are your family, too. We're your brothers and sisters in Christ just as much as anyone at ECC is. If you know the Lord, you're going to spend eternity worshiping the Lord with us. You may feel that you're defending your family (which I understand, having felt the same way while I was part of your church movement), but you're also attacking your family. We're all members of the same family, those of us who've been forgiven in Christ.

Even those forum members who no longer profess Christ are here because they were wounded by members of your (our) family, specifically those family members who are part of your church movement.

Until you see us (those of us who've left GC) this way, you won't begin to understand what this forum is really about.

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Greentruth
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2018, 09:45:39 am »

I have seen in less than 24 hours that some don’t think it’s prudent to follow the Bible here, ok to get in line with co exist mentality. I have seen MD be compared to self admitted and convicted criminals?  Accusations have not been proven, and the accusers refuse to answer questions about issues that look to be fabricated, at best. You see, not so many are willing to jump on a fast moving train over a cliff. I would challenge again. Give us one clergy from any Bible teaching church that would advocate what is and has been going on for years. And the name of the church this pastor presides at. You do that and I promise to never speak on this form again. I think that is more than fair, considering you claim righteousness in what you are doing here.
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araignee19
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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2018, 09:47:46 am »

The slander and gossip going on is against my church family. My FAMILY. It is way bigger than Mark and Suzanne drama that I know nothing about.

I haven't been around the forum for a couple of days, but I've been thinking about this remark.

Leaving aside the issue of whether this forum deals in gossip or slander (I believe it does neither; we try to be truthful and accurate here), you're overlooking an important point: if you're a born-again Christian, then we are your family, too. We're your brothers and sisters in Christ just as much as anyone at ECC is. If you know the Lord, you're going to spend eternity worshiping the Lord with us. You may feel that you're defending your family (which I understand, having felt the same way while I was part of your church movement), but you're also attacking your family. We're all members of the same family, those of us who've been forgiven in Christ.

Even those forum members who no longer profess Christ are here because they were wounded by members of your (our) family, specifically those family members who are part of your church movement.

Until you see us (those of us who've left GC) this way, you won't begin to understand what this forum is really about.



This is exactly why I keep using quotes for "sides." The vast majority of the people here are all believers, and are all on the same side, even though we disagree with many things. Why are we attacking each other personally? I think everyone here is doing the exact same thing: posting to defend what they hold dear and refute what they believe is wrong. I don't personally see anything wrong with anyone doing this, as long as it is done maturely and without personal attacks. What I'm frustrated by is that one of the "sides" that is doing this has consistently used personal attacks to say it is wrong to do this. I see this as a huge bit of hypocrisy.

I'm still not satisfied with the answers I have received for why ECC supports are in the right to be posting here, and I and others are not.  Maybe some are convinced, but I think the arguments I have seen so far are weak. I'm personally still open to hearing from others, and do believe there may actually be a good difference. But haven't heard it yet.
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araignee19
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2018, 09:49:12 am »

I have seen in less than 24 hours that some don’t think it’s prudent to follow the Bible here, ok to get in line with co exist mentality. I have seen MD be compared to self admitted and convicted criminals?  Accusations have not been proven, and the accusers refuse to answer questions about issues that look to be fabricated, at best. You see, not so many are willing to jump on a fast moving train over a cliff. I would challenge again. Give us one clergy from any Bible teaching church that would advocate what is and has been going on for years. And the name of the church this pastor presides at. You do that and I promise to never speak on this form again. I think that is more than fair, considering you claim righteousness in what you are doing here.

I would like to point out that this is off topic, as this thread is about posting about things other than the Mark/Suzanne issue. Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this. Thank you.
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Greentruth
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2018, 10:04:56 am »

It’s obvious you don’t agree with my assessment, which is fine, but for your self, I would discuss this with a clergy you trust. Again, you post just one clergy and the church they shepherd, and I will delete my presence here forever.
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araignee19
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2018, 10:35:36 am »

No offense, but yeah right.  Roll Eyes

I have sought counsel and advice and thoughts from people I trust about my participation on this forum. I am at peace with it, and can listen to my own conscience on this one. I don't hate the idea of asking a pastor for thoughts, but I absolutely would not share their information here. Plus, trying to defend ones own opinion with "expert testimony" is fraught with issues. For every pastor you can find to support one issue, I could find one to refute it. That is not how I will argue this.

What you recommend still also doesn't get at that point of this thread, which is how is what you are doing any better than what I am doing? The question is not "does a pastor support what I am doing?"
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Linda
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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2018, 02:59:26 pm »

Quote from: Huldah
if you're a born-again Christian, then we are your family, too. We're your brothers and sisters in Christ just as much as anyone at ECC is.

Exactly, Huldah.

There is one Bride. Only one.

To speak of a 501c3 tax exempt organization legally known as a "church" as "my" church is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Church is. It is highly sectarian at best. Cult-like at worst.

This fundamental misunderstanding of "church/Church" is why someone would say "You are my Bride, today we are borrowing the home of another man's Bride."

Number one on the apology statement.

Prideful Attitude.

http://www.gcxweb.org/Misc/WeaknessesPaper.aspx

I have in my hands a letter from a man who sits on the national board who says he never ever heard the charge of pride labeled against GCC! Apparently, he forgot he apologized for it in 1991.




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