Case study

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[nateswinton]

I knew a handful of people this has happened to, including myself. They don’t excommunicate like they used to, instead they ask you to leave, make you feel uncomfortable so you do leave, or convince your friends you are divisive who in turn stop talking to you. Either way, if they want you out, you’re out.

I almost wanna be naughty enough to do my own little case study…

Almost.

[puff of purple smoke]

I almost wanna be naughty enough to do my own little case study…

Almost.

Haha, you’re funny nate. Here’s some ideas to get you in trouble:

Suggest they re-distribute the church error statement to every congregation in the movement. Tell them there are too many small group leaders unaware of this, and it is causing people to fall back into the abuses the church apologized for in 1991. This act would be proof of their continued dedication to the reforms promised back then, and they could even renew their commitment to reform with a small additional statement.

Or

You could suggest they make a formal denouncing of Jim McCotter’s teachings and leadership practices. This is one of the things Larry Pile and those “Wellspring Hooligans” have asked for and never gotten.

Also, ask them when that promised Book Of Government is coming out, any day now I’m sure..

[nateswinton]

Puff,

Hmmm… You and I think along the same lines… How to prudently do things along those lines and maintain respect, humility and love?

The book of governance is drafted, I believe. I’ll see if I can get a copy. Dave mentioned it last week.

[Dipping my toes in....]

Suggest they re-distribute the church error statement to every congregation in the movement. Tell them there are too many small group leaders unaware of this, and it is causing people to fall back into the abuses the church apologized for in 1991. This act would be proof of their continued dedication to the reforms promised back then, and they could even renew their commitment to reform with a small additional statement.



Purple Puff - Wow, I think this is one of the better ideas I’ve heard here. I think there’s a lot of good people within GCM that see the problems, but just don’t know where to start in addressing them. This would give people a really concrete place to start in evaluating their leadership.



I would take your idea one step further, though - reissue the statement with contact info list for reporting abuses, as well as a good protocol for raising your concerns (i.e., take them to your pastor first and seek resolution, then to his boss, etc, etc.)I don’t know the verses off hand about resolving disputes, but put them on this list too! Enable people to pursue their concerns in good ways.



Having a reporting process could also help open leadership’s eyes to where the “hot spots” are. From things I’ve learned on this site, I think I’ve started to get an idea of why my old GCM church was a “hot spot”. I’ll try to be pretty general, but say you have an individual that gets a bee in their bonnet sometime in the late 80’s to plant a church. This is right before the time that error statement was released. These folks were born, raised, and discipled under the “old” ways and set off on their own to plant a church. Is it that hard to believe that abuses of the past would still rampant in GCM churches with leaders like this? Especially if the “team” that left to plant the church was very small to begin with……

[Genevieve]

Dipping toes in and Puff,
I totally agree. The old days seem to be alive and well in some churches and not in others. It would be nice if there was an official reporting process, which would reinterate that these practices are indeed condemned.

Great idea!

[hope]

i think the re-distribution of the error statement to small group leaders and a process for reporting abuse are excellent ideas.



nate- you should suggest these to dave bovenmeyer.

[nateswinton]

Hope,

I’ll be testing the water with Dave and others and see what people think about circulating all this kind of information.

[snoopy]

It’s not going to happen, guys.



Never.



(I hope this prediction is wrong, by the way!)

[nateswinton]

Snoopy,

Maybe I’m just getting moody because the I’m doing all this partly for the sake of semi-hopeless naysayers, but that last comment was a little discouraging snoopy. Thankfully, though, I’m doing it *mostly* because I can sense God’s leading to persue these things.

[snoopy]

Hey, Nate.



Cheer up. That’s why I put in the last line…I really do hope I’m wrong!



I do appreciate your pursuit of the truth. Don’t get me wrong. We all hope you succeed.



The thing that many of you don’t know about many of us is that we have spent hours, over years, in meeting after meeting with leaders under the assumption that a lot of this was a big misunderstanding. We see you doing the same thing and pretty much “know” where you will end up.



But, we all hold out that we are wrong and that God will use someone like you to break through the leadership stranglehold and let the light shine in.



So, God bless you, Nate.

[Dipping my toes in....]

Nate -



I read your last post and got a bit worried. I am TOTALLY not asking you to do any of what you are doing. I’m under the impression that you’re taking the actions you are due to your own concerns. But if you’re not, please, please don’t be doing this for me - not even an eensy bit! I don’t want that! I’ve tasted a bit of a price you may pay for going down this road, and I do NOT want you experiencing that on account of problems I’ve had. That’s my battle, not yours! If you aren’t genuinely concerned about the church you’re in, I’d say enjoy it!



Actually, I’ve often wondered why you spend so much time posting on this site, cause it seems like you really enjoy your current church! If you’re comfortable sharing, I’d like to hear some more about why you participate so heavily on this blog and what you’re hoping to accomplish.



And last, we’re not all “semi-hopeless naysayers”! I have hope that the movement can grow and reform. And I hope it does! I’m just not sure where I fit into doing anything more about that, if at all.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I agree with Dipping. But if you are considering pursuing this avenue… more power to you and may it go well with you!

[nateswinton]

Dipping and Snoopy,

I’m definately aware that no one asked me to do anything. (Ha ha ha) I’m definately able to say with confidence that no one has ever asked me to look into these things.

When I say I’m doing this partly for some of your sakes, I mean to put a realistic hope in you, a hope based on tangible results. A glimpse of idealism actually surviving reality. That’s a personal ambition. When I see someone stay idealistic (about the right things) and not give up - and eventually succeed, I know it’s inspirational for me at least. I want my life to count even in the sense that I give inspiration and hope to others.

I also have the drive of curiosity behind me a little. I’ll be honest. That’s there.

The bulk of my ambition for doing these things and digging deep, though, is the belief that it’s simply right. I can’t look away now that I’ve seen some of these things. A buddy of mine called me up last night and told me that something that I and a few others had done had really hurt him. He felt bad telling me and didn’t want to make a big deal of it. But I made a big deal of it and told him not to ever second guess himself when he thought of telling me I had done wrong by him. I told him that I would have to answer to God someday for everything, and that especially now that I knew what I did wrong, I was going to make it a big deal. I was going to do everything in my power to make sure I and others never hurt my friend like that again.

Now that I’ve looked at these hurts in GC’s past, I want to do everything in my power to make sure that the buck stops. I remember hearing a story once of a man who had three generations of severe alchol abuse in his family. He had struggled himself with it. But he had made a decision that his son would not be an alcoholic. He was going to stop the family trend with his own life. He said “It stops here!” That story has meant alot to me, and might flesh out my ambition and motivation some for those of you that are wondering.

Why am I invested so much in this website? Because I genuinely care about you guys and the concerns you bring up.

What kind of a fool ignores feedback like this and tries to look God in the eye and say “I’m obeying you”? A believer ought to care about justice and the oppressed. A believer ought to want to bring things that are in the darkness out into light. A believer ought not be afraid of men, only God. And I have a healthy fear of God. I know that he is inherently pleased with me and that I don’t have to earn anything. I want to do these things because I love Him. How can I say I love Him if I don’t treat His people with impartial love?

That’s why I’m doing these things. There are the two personal ambitions of idealism and curiosity, but obedience and love are the primary drives.

[snoopy]

“The bulk of my ambition for doing these things and digging deep, though, is the belief that it’s simply right. I can’t look away now that I’ve seen some of these things.”



Amen.



You go, Nate.

[Dipping my toes in....]

Thanks very much for elaborating, Nate.



You seem like a good-hearted person. I respect what you’re trying to do and even if at bare minimum, all you succeed in doing is growing as a leader within GCM that’s open to differences of opinion and open to criticism, and teaching that attitude to others, then you’re doing your part in making GCM a better church. You’re in my prayers,



- Dip

[nateswinton]

That’s what I’m always telling my idealistic buddies (one who is often severely optimistic in some areas) - if you want to change the world, be willing to start with yourself.

[nateswinton]

And thanks for the encouragement, guys. I got an email from a woman in the church a few days ago telling me how encouraged she was with my life lately, and it almost made me cry. Sometimes we can go months at a time without knowing we’re making any progress or doing anything really “right” because no one ever says anything.

[wynter]

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