For the record, one key difference between ECC and Willow is that ECC proper has not commented much about the alleged victims. There has been some unfortunate nods to personal frustration that has been discussed here (I'm looking at you BKnox), but for the most part they've been silent on the subject, which puts them a bit ahead of Willow.
HOWEVER, the problem with that is in their silence, they're has been no shortage of voices from within the church that have lined up to echo the Willow pattern: Call the women liars, question their credibility, make it appear to be a conspiracy to destroy these fine men. And in the silence and absence of other voice from ECC proper, this then becomes the default "voice of ECC", and that has been troubling. I'm of the opinion, and have encouraged my leadership at ECC, that there should have been more formal pushback from ECC proper against these internal voices. Something in one of the official updates such as "while we have seen some voices on social media questioning the credibility of the alleged victims, these voices do not speak for ECC. The leadership at ECC is troubled by these voices and finds them contrary to the loving standard in the New Testiment. Furthermore, we find it counterproductive during the ongoing investigation". This type of statement would have served two purposes: 1) It would have clearly separated the voices of those aligning with Jeromy and his Reckoning from the desired neutrality that ECC is trying to present, and 2) I believe it would have taken a fair amount of wind out of the sails of those voices, and they might have toned down their veracity and vitriol, which would have been good for all parties.
Thank you for saying this. I think that it is not unfair to draw the conclusion that ECC has given tacit approval to the online criticism by not issuing a public statement similar to the one you suggested. Also, suggesting that the situation is somehow unfair or unjust is a sideways way of passing blame to the women. Those "sermons" were very clearly intended to be public criticism of women who are claiming abuse.
One thing I might add to the mix is that ECC has been quick to imply that MD cannot speak as much as a denial, so apparently, ECC controls the social media commenting of it's employees. It is a curiosity to me, then, that they allow a current staff member, Jeromy Darling, to make rude, offensive, and discrediting personal attack comments about the women and about those of us who say we believe them. Again, the fact that "the powers that be" control the public commenting of some on staff, one could easily infer that they have no objection to the staff member posting and the fact that they have issued no disclaimer (such as the one you suggested) indicates to me that they have no problem with the comments.
To that extent, I do think ECC has followed the Willow Creek pattern of attempting to throw the women under the bus and portraying those supporting them as colluders.
Keep in mind that Jeromy, an ECC staff member and worship leader, said these things about the victims and those who support them:
To Huldah: "You've relentlessly hounded my father and my churches and this movement. You DID force me here when
you embraced and spread a lie. Show me the decency of READING the entire letter, not skimming it (otherwise proving you're terrified of the truth)."
To Me: "You want what most of the other regular users on this forum have wanted for years: the humiliation of our churches."
To GodIsFaithful: "I'm sure Jesus and Paul and any number of other godly men may have appeared that way at times -
you apparently haven't spent enough time in the Word as I'm only trying to model their behavior."
To Boggs: "This entire website stands as a billboard for the the loveless Christian life"
To g_prince: "I am however beginning to wonder how many pastors have been spiritually abused by their former congregants..."
On why he can violate the rules of the forum and out members: "First of all I outed a two people. Chris and Jason. Secondly, I do not recognize the owners of this website or this website itself as having any Authority in my life, Ergo I dont recognize the rules they set out. "
To me: "And for the record, when you disagree with a public figure - NO ONE EVEN NEEDS TO KNOW. The fact that you think your opinion about a pastor or politician, posted on a website, is valuable to the world is the height of hubris. You've never run a church and don't have the first idea how to. Leaving me to conclude that the only reason you continue posting on this website is for your own personal validation and self gratitude. In fact, since everyone on this site seems so interested in the latest spiritual topics and terms, let me introduce a new one here:
spiritual masturbation."
About Suzanne making up the story: "I KNOW no names have been submitted because
the evidence points exclusively to Suzanne making all of the victims up. "
About investigation the character of an alleged victim AND HER HUSBAND: "And for the record, this investigator is not only digging deep into my father's life, she's digging deep into John and Suzanne's."
To the group: "Since there is no Biblical basis for running a site like this I can safely assume that
most users on here are either grossly ignorant or are not real Christians at all. You guys could all be out volunteering, preaching the Gospel, saving souls, doing anything other than posting here over and over again, spiritually masturbating each other in an effort to validate your self worth and your knowledge, while perpetuating (or silently approving of) disgusting lies about my father."
To me: "Linda, disagreeing isn't hate. Even I know that. You've spent more time on this website than you ever spent in a GCC church or listening to my father speak. You have reserved much of your ire for a man you barely even had any conversations with, and you've dished out all your advice and warnings having never founded or a led a church on any conceivable level. This shows empirically that
you're both filled with pride AND hate while simultaneously caught up in a savior's complex the likes of which I've never seen before."Calling Suzanne a liar: "Suzanne said that my dad asked about her and her current boyfriend's sexual positions, but she didn't have a boyfriend when she met my dad and she and John did not have sex until they were married. Know how I know that? Because Suzanne used to tease John about their wedding night. See John was a virgin. And up until they first had sex he thought women got pregnant through their belly button. I actually always found that very endearing about John and his commitment to sexual Integrity before marriage.
Anyone care to unravel this lie?"
Suggesting Suzanne is mentally ill" "See either Suzanne thinks we're to stupid to catch these things,
or she's struggling mentally much more than any of you realize - which one is worse?"
To me when I quoted something his dad said to Terry and I at our last private meeting. Jeromy was not present.: "
Another fat stinking lie Linda. My goodness. There's enough (Ad nauseam) lies from you, just in this website, about my father, to fill a volume of defamation lawsuits. This is so fantastical and so disgusting I don't know whether to laugh or weep but it's now your MO."
Claiming the victims are lying: "Speaking of truth,
I know Suzanne, Natalie and Loey are lying not just because I know my dad so well, but because I actually know the other half of THEIR stories."
Claiming Suzanne is lying:
"Of course I'm saying she's lying. I've been saying that this whole time."Claiming Natalie wasn't abused and also mentioning her "failings": "Watching -
I know Natalie wasn't abused just from reading her blog. She's redefined "abuse" to include years of "subtle" spiritual abuse and
never talks about her own failings."
Evergreen, are you okay with a staff member saying these things? Because, honestly, this reflects poorly upon the leadership, the church, and the integrity of the investigation.
Jeromy, are you familiar with 1 Timothy 5:1?
"Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity."
How closely have you followed this advice from your hero Paul? Do you often rebuke your mother with harsh vulgar terms such as you have done on this forum? Or call her a liar when she quotes a conversation in which you did not participate. Do you often call your wife a liar or point out her failings publicly? Is it okay to be harsh when you are mad?
Peacemaker03, my tendency is to think that, sadly, ECC has followed the Willow Creek pattern and it will not go well for Willow Creek or Evergreen.
ECC pastors, I know many of you quite well and care about you. We have been friends for many years. Please. Do the right thing.
