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Author Topic: Great Commission Churches in a Nutshell?  (Read 10365 times)
adam3000
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« on: June 26, 2014, 12:21:47 pm »

Hello Guys,

I'm curious about Great Commission Churches.

Can you give me the basics of their false teachings, etc.?

Or if this has been answered elsewhere, can you provide a link?

Thank you.
- Adam
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 03:43:27 pm by adam3000 » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 03:53:57 pm »

The basics of their false teachings are:

1. The number one, and most disturbing (IMO), falsehood is that "Unity trumps truth." In other words, staying loyal to the denomination and your fellow church members is more important than adhering to Scriptural truth.

2. You must commit to the denomination for life. Anything else is settling for a lesser Christian experience, at best, and betrayal at worst. Once God has placed you into a GC church, you aren't free to leave without the elders' approval. (You may not be told about this teaching until after you've joined. In my case, I was never warned or asked. I was simply told, after I joined, that I was no longer free to leave unless I was excommunicated.)

3. You must yield to the judgment of the pastor(s)/elder(s) in personal life decisions, because God has placed them over you. The pastor is the "husband" of the congregation, and the congregation must submit to him as a wife submits to her husband. (Notice the subtle idolatry here. Scripturally, it is the Lord Jesus Christ, not the pastor, who is the husband of the church.)

Historically, the church has been known to be overzealous in disciplining its members (for example, excommunicating people for a difference of opinion on minor matters, or even just for honest questioning). In the past, they've discouraged higher education or career tracks, and in some congregations, they may be still be doing that in a more subtle way. Although I've been out of the movement for a very long time, reports are that these are still problems that crop up from time to time, probably more so in some congregations than others.

There's more, but these are the big problems that come to mind. I'm sure you'll get some other very informative answers from other members of the forum. If you have time to look around the forum, that will fill in some of the details for you.

I hope your friend hasn't gotten in too deep.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 04:24:58 pm by Huldah » Logged
EverAStudent
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 07:14:28 pm »

Welcome to the forum.  

Per your question, I do not think a definitive list of errors and problems has ever been put forward.  However, one thread did contain quite a serious compilation of them:  http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/the-worst-of-the-worst-serious-error/

It seems to me that the most indefensible problems have been:
 - constant misinterpretation of Scripture
 - eschewing seminary training
 - isolating the congregations from non-GC teachers
 - pride in thinking GC will alone win the world for Christ, or, GC is the "best church" on the planet and all others are God's second best
 - coercing people to "commit to life to GC"
 - use of excommunication at the drop of a hat to keep people fearful and in line

An additional set of threads include:
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/bad-teaching-that-should-be-corrected/
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/what's-your-list/
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/what-gc-teaches-and-believes/
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/what-they-believe/
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/gcc-frequently-asked-questions/

But my favorite is:
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/gc-terminology/

« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 07:36:05 pm by EverAStudent » Logged
adam3000
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 04:49:43 pm »

Thank you so much for your help!
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Linda
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2021, 05:13:50 pm »

PWW,

I just stumbled upon a post by our old friend "EverAStudent". He complied these links of errors if you are really interested.

I'll post here to bump this thread so you can check out the links.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2021, 06:29:30 pm »

Thank you for doing this.... though again, all of that has to do with practice.... When I use the word "Doctrine," I'm talking about topics that one would read about in a Systematic Theology book.  What these are, relate how a local church and its member interact with each other. It's not that I don't think that it is important and we should talk about it. But in the thread that I made, it doesn't relate. Just like if I started a thread on how parents disciplined their kids in GCx, it would relate directly to the encouragement to have Christian roommates from the church as a single....

So, I am keeping the thread very focused.... Though I read through the list of GCx terms, that Jay put together and I thought it was pretty good.
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Huldah
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2021, 06:54:18 pm »

Thank you for doing this.... though again, all of that has to do with practice.... When I use the word "Doctrine," I'm talking about topics that one would read about in a Systematic Theology book.  What these are, relate how a local church and its member interact with each other. It's not that I don't think that it is important and we should talk about it. But in the thread that I made, it doesn't relate.

Yes, you (PWW) are talking about doctrine in a narrowly defined sense, while the rest of us are talking about teachings in a broader sense. To the best of my memory, McCotter and his contemporaries were sound on the major doctrines such as the Trinity, the bodily resurrection of Christ, and so forth. Those really aren't issues that need to be discussed, since there doesn't seem to have been any major error (unless you oppose dispensationalism). However, the broader scope of teaching does need to be addressed, because the bad teachings of the church were the source of all the other evils.
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Linda
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2021, 07:16:31 pm »

One of the "deceptions" perpetrated by GCx is that on the surface GCx seems to have pretty "normal" Christian doctrine. That's why people get fooled.

It's not until you hear teaching on what they actually believe that you realize they are "off".

That said, I believe they are wrong on their doctrine of the Holy Spirit and their doctrine of The Church because of what they teach/believe about obedience to self-appointed elders.

But you only get there when you listen to hundreds of hours of sermons, Faithwalkers events, pastor's conferences, etc. Many of us have listened while taking notes. There are summaries of those teachings all over this forum.

Larry Pile called GCx a "TACO". Meaning a "Totalist Aberrant Christian Organization". Here is how he explained it:

"Groups with these restrictive characteristics I have labeled “totalist aberrant Christian organizations” (TACOs). They are “totalist” by virtue of their attempts to control almost every area of the member’s life. They are “aberrant” in that they teach doctrines and practices that, though they cannot be called actually heretical, they are yet “eccentric” in the literal sense of “off center” – out of line with historic, orthodox Christianity. Thus they must be recognized as genuine, if non-mainstream, “Christian organizations.” The term TACO is appropriate for another reason: the groups are so close to the truth, and the error is so subtle, that when one tries to get a grip on the problem one has great difficulty holding things together long enough to get a good “bite” on it!"
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Huldah
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2021, 07:31:08 pm »

That said, I believe they are wrong on their doctrine of the Holy Spirit and their doctrine of The Church because of what they teach/believe about obedience to self-appointed elders.

Wrong about the church, certainly. I don't know what they've been teaching about the Holy Spirit in recent years. To the best of my memory, they were fairly sound back in the 70's, but I'd really have to go back and look at my notes to be sure.

They just weren't all that doctrinal in general. The sermons were often anecdotal in nature. There were a lot of rules for life derived from the stories of David or Paul, and a lot of emphasis on the importance of being/becoming an elder or financially supporting the elders. I believe I counted up the sermons on elders in my notebook once, and they came to about 25% of the total. That seems so strange to me now. Elders spending 25% of their time extolling the virtues of the elders. Wow. How did I not notice how far off that was, back then?

So let's chalk that up as another bad teaching: the centrality of elders, and the importance of obeying and serving them, as opposed to the New Testament idea of elders being there to equip the rest of the body. ("Elders" in GC are synomous with "pastors.")
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PietWowo
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2021, 07:51:51 pm »

That said, I believe they are wrong on their doctrine of the Holy Spirit and their doctrine of The Church because of what they teach/believe about obedience to self-appointed elders.

Wrong about the church, certainly. I don't know what they've been teaching about the Holy Spirit in recent years. To the best of my memory, they were fairly sound back in the 70's, but I'd really have to go back and look at my notes to be sure.

They just weren't all that doctrinal in general. The sermons were often anecdotal in nature. There were a lot of rules for life derived from the stories of David or Paul, and a lot of emphasis on the importance of being/becoming an elder or financially supporting the elders. I believe I counted up the sermons on elders in my notebook once, and they came to about 25% of the total. That seems so strange to me now. Elders spending 25% of their time extolling the virtues of the elders. Wow. How did I not notice how far off that was, back then?

So let's chalk that up as another bad teaching: the centrality of elders, and the importance of obeying and serving them, as opposed to the New Testament idea of elders being there to equip the rest of the body. ("Elders" in GC are synomous with "pastors.")

Well, Biblically, I would say that "elders" and "pastors" are the same.... Having said that.... we need to look at the historical context. You can still see this in the Bedouin culture today. The father of a family would have sheep. He was the main shepherd. However, his children, between the age of 9-14 would take care of the sheep. Generally they were young girls, like of 11-12 years old. They would be called "under shepherds." The father would be sitting under some broom tree or so looking at the flock as his little kids did the work of the shepherd.

That has several implications.... An elder or pastor should never feel superiour. His role is one of an undershepherd as Peter points out.... Or in their culture.... The job of young girls.

I'm out of the country right now in South America and just yesterday, I was talking with two girls who were 11 and 12 years old. Guess what? They were shepherds.... I told them that this was wonderful and that at the Christmas story that the angels appeared to the shepherds, who were probably their age and young girls. God revealed Himself to a low class within that culture.... Pretty encouraging to me... 
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Huldah
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2021, 07:53:04 pm »

On second thought, Linda, could you elaborate a bit on the Holy Spirit? I don't know whether they changed their teaching over the years, or whether there was error all along that I didn't know enough to recognize.
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Huldah
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 07:55:34 pm »


Well, Biblically, I would say that "elders" and "pastors" are the same....

Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought otherwise. I was just adding that clarification for potential readers whose churches distinguish between a pastor and an elder.
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Linda
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2021, 08:07:22 pm »

On second thought, Linda, could you elaborate a bit on the Holy Spirit? I don't know whether they changed their teaching over the years, or whether there was error all along that I didn't know enough to recognize.

Sure. What I mean by that is when a pastor says you should give the controls of your life over to the elders, I believe it is misunderstanding the role of the Holy Spirit.

From Brent Knox: "And so even to give the controls over to God, that's hard, but the real kicker here is God is saying, "give the controls over to people that I work through, and these people are fallible, these people make mistakes, these people are weak at times. You-outta work through it anyway," that's what God says."

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Huldah
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2021, 08:22:06 pm »

Thanks, Linda, I get it. After I left Solid Rock, it occurred to me that some of the people there (not just the elders) were attempting to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in each other's lives. What the elders didn't police, the lower-ranking members did. A couple of the sisters were especially notorious for this. I guess bossing other women around made up for all the times they had to defer to the brothers.



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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2021, 02:20:35 pm »

Jim is answering GCI questions right now live!

https://www.facebook.com/JimMcCotterLIVE
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2021, 08:36:47 am »

The above post of advertisement for McCotter does not represent or support the vast majority of former members of GCx for whom this site was created. 


Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned.

“Knowing the correct password—saying ‘Master, Master,’ for instance—isn’t going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, ‘Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.’ And do you know what I am going to say? ‘You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don’t impress me one bit. You’re out of here.’  



Matthew 7:15-23     The Message (MSG)


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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2021, 06:41:41 pm »

I think you said this already, Huldah, but it just hit me that Vince advertising McCotter’s show here can bring uninformed people to this site to read about what his character is really like so they are less apt to get tangled up in McCotter’s web of deceit.  

God works everything together for good to those called according to his purpose.
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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Huldah
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2021, 10:49:47 am »

There's also a possibility that someone lurking here may actually want the opportunity to confront Jim about some of his actions or teachings. I'm not sure they'd get a forthright answer from Jim, but at least they have an opportunity to ask.

Of course, promoting Jim's livestreams here on a forum like this, where so many have been harmed by Jim's teachings, is tone-deaf at best, but we know that God can use even that for His glory and our good.
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2021, 06:16:45 pm »

Not convinced their question to confront him will actually make it in the same words and manner it was asked. I’m also not sure they would get an honest answer.

In the “Spiritual Gifts Conference Video” McCotter “offered” to take people’s questions, but somehow ran out of time to actually read or address them.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2021, 03:13:58 pm »

It's just soooo easy to talk garbage about another person, and I won't bore you with the DOZENS of verses that you should be considering before you do so, but you have an opportunity to GO ON THE SHOW LIVE with Jim so that your questions won't be changed even one bit, because they will come right from you in real time!  What's your excuse going to be next?  Jim has nothing to hide and will field ANY questions or accusations, or comments you would like to express.  You can even comment your questions and they will be copied and pasted. I really want you to be able to air your grievances so that you can hear directly from Jim.  You should be willing to do that.  You really should.  NO ONE should be willing to trash talk someone who claims to be a Jesus follower unless they are willing to talk to them directly.  Every Friday, you can come on live and talk about whatever you want to.  What is the possible genuine reason to avoid seeking to resolve this once and for all? 
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