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Author Topic: Identification of ECC BOT with names  (Read 39239 times)
ShineTheLight
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« on: May 21, 2018, 10:11:15 am »

All, thanks to the power of social media and those of us who feel having a secret board making high impact decisions is wrong, below are the identities of 4 of the 5 location BOT members and the overall makeup of the BOT.  In alphabetical order by last name is the group that will be making decisions when the results of the investigation are presented.

Location "lay" Members

1. Todd Goodwin - The Rock
2. Jeff Hudson - The Urban Refuge
3. Nick Wenner - Evergreen
4. Brad Zielke - New Hope
5. Lakeville - ?? What I do know as Lakeville had a vacancy when this all started and Mark Bowen appointed a woman (the only non-staff woman) to serve on the BOT.

Staff Members
6. Jim Bird
7. Lynn Newman

Some thoughts:
1. Harassing these people with a million emails would be in no one's interest - please don't, you are all adults.

2. I don't know most of them personally - (only one).  That being said, the questions I would have are as follows:
a. Todd is a leader at The Rock (per The Rock website he leads a house church or something)..All of the key leaders at my location are good friends of the pastors.  I would love to hear from Todd how he feels objective enough to serve as Mark's judge and jury - has he not spent extensive time with Mark and his family? Been to Mark's home? Friends with Mark's kids?

b. The Lakeville BOT member was appointed by Mark AFTER the allegations were made, so as someone pointed out to me, Mark had to "recuse himself" from his role as Chairman of the BOT, but got to pick the Lakeville BOT member knowing he was under investigation, which seems like a suspect circumstance (e.g., I can't vote, I have to recuse myself, but you can vote for me - convenient if you are accused of something).


3. Of the 7 BOT members, in my mind, 4 are compromised in their lack of independence from those under investigation  - the 2 staff members who normally work for all these pastors, The Rock BOT member who no doubt knows Mark & Mark's family well, and the Lakeville member who was appointed by someone under investigation (Mark Bowen) AFTER it was known he was under investigation.

I cannot guarantee the accuracy of all names but believe I have been given good information. If someone wants to send me the Lakeville BOT members name, I will post when I get it and keep you anonymous as was done here.
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Huldah
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2018, 10:33:49 am »

Thank you for doing this, ShineTheLight.

Harassing these people with a million emails would be in no one's interest - please don't, you are all adults.

Agreed, 100%. All the BOT needs from us at this point is our prayers.
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LisaFeist
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2018, 10:42:15 am »

Thank you again for keeping your eyes and ears open during this time. And to undoubtedly see the errors in how this has been handled. You are encouraging change and asking all of the right questions, and I do believe you are encouraging others as well who may have been too afraid to say something in the beginning. Thank you.
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Greentruth
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2018, 10:57:13 am »

Who knows, maybe when the board gets the results from the independent investigation they may decide its to volatile to make a decision,and hand it over to a lawyer in a defamation lawsuit.  Either way the investigation goes it would be plausible, as the Church and many of the members would have good cause from many here, and on social media, that have been doing a lot of defamation. Might want to keep that in mind when throwing people’s names around and making accusations about them, as I see on Suzanne FB

This is totally my aspect and mine alone. I have seen before where an organization has no choice in order to protect themselves and all involved. Lawsuits occur at the drop of a hat these days.
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Huldah
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2018, 11:06:32 am »

Who knows, maybe when the board gets the results from the independent investigation they may decide its to volatile to make a decision,and hand it over to a lawyer in a defamation lawsuit.  Either way the investigation goes it would be plausible, as the Church and many of the members would have good cause from many here, and on social media, that have been doing a lot of defamation. Might want to keep that in mind when throwing people’s names around and making accusations about them, as I see on Suzanne FB... Lawsuits occur at the drop of a hat these days.

So as not to hijack this thread, I'll be starting a new one called Lawsuit for anyone who wishes to carry on this train of thought.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 11:11:40 am by Huldah » Logged
ShineTheLight
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 11:12:35 am »

Thank you again for keeping your eyes and ears open during this time. And to undoubtedly see the errors in how this has been handled. You are encouraging change and asking all of the right questions, and I do believe you are encouraging others as well who may have been too afraid to say something in the beginning. Thank you.
Thanks Lisa and Huldah. I hope I’m doing the Lord’s work pushing ECC to handle this in the way I would want if my daughter were ever to be a potential victim. But I have a healthy amount of self doubt. Some might say not enough given I chose to post the names, but it’s all in God’s hands now (and always has been). Thanks to those who made a hard decision to share info to make this post possible. I don’t know your names but I respect how hard this was.
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Linda
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 11:13:22 am »

Quote from: GT
Might want to keep that in mind when throwing people’s names around and making accusations about them, as I see on Suzanne FB
Is this some type of threat to intimidate women who are alleging abuse to keep them silent? Pretty sure it’s not libel to tell what happened as long as you tell the truth. Also, wouldn’t a decent church board be appalled if the allegations are true and do something about anyone who abused someone OR anyone who covered up abuse?
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Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Greentruth
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 11:19:38 am »

Quote from: GT
Might want to keep that in mind when throwing people’s names around and making accusations about them, as I see on Suzanne FB
Is this some type of threat to intimidate women who are alleging abuse to keep them silent? Pretty sure it’s not libel to tell what happened as long as you tell the truth. Also, wouldn’t a decent church board be appalled if the allegations are true and do something about anyone who abused someone OR anyone who covered up abuse?

Twisting and manipulating my words again as usual. I never said ONE word do the women making accusations, I clearly stated the defamation of the Church and some members.
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Huldah
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2018, 11:21:47 am »

Link to spin-off thread dealing with lawsuits and intimidation of forum members: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/lawsuit/msg18530/?topicseen#msg18530
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Greentruth
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2018, 11:39:58 am »

Link to spin-off thread dealing with lawsuits and intimidation of forum members: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/lawsuit/msg18530/?topicseen#msg18530


Either thread would be the same comment. If some want to continue to manipulate the process by slandering or exposing names of people not even involved, you could end up with another process you really don’t like. In the world this would be a done deal for defamation.
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Huldah
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 11:44:03 am »

The point is not whether your answer would be the same in either thread. The point is showing courtesy, both to the person who started the thread and to readers who would like to be able to discuss a topic without unnecessary distractions.
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Peacemaker03
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 11:49:41 am »

Who knows, maybe when the board gets the results from the independent investigation they may decide its to volatile to make a decision,and hand it over to a lawyer in a defamation lawsuit. 

You say we're taking you out of context or your words are being twisted, but here is the line where you bring up the defamation lawsuit.  Please clarify, who would the church be pursuing a defamation lawsuit against?  People on this forum have assumed you meant the alleged victims, and that's how I read it as well.  But I will allow you to clarify.  I read this line as the BOT would hand the issue over to a lawyer to pursue a defamation case on behalf of MD and ECC against those that brought "false accusations".  If that is not what you meant, please clarify.  I'm sorry if you think we're twisting your words, but that's honestly what I thought you were saying when I read it.
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Greentruth
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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 11:51:49 am »

The point is not whether your answer would be the same in either thread. The point is showing courtesy, both to the person who started the thread and to readers who would like to be able to discuss a topic without unnecessary distractions.


I was speaking to the thread on how over the top it is getting with calling out possible bot members, and trying to manipulate the process of resolution in place.
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Greentruth
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2018, 11:54:38 am »

Who knows, maybe when the board gets the results from the independent investigation they may decide its to volatile to make a decision,and hand it over to a lawyer in a defamation lawsuit. 

You say we're taking you out of context or your words are being twisted, but here is the line where you bring up the defamation lawsuit.  Please clarify, who would the church be pursuing a defamation lawsuit against?  People on this forum have assumed you meant the alleged victims, and that's how I read it as well.  But I will allow you to clarify.  I read this line as the BOT would hand the issue over to a lawyer to pursue a defamation case on behalf of MD and ECC against those that brought "false accusations".  If that is not what you meant, please clarify.  I'm sorry if you think we're twisting your words, but that's honestly what I thought you were saying when I read it.

I have reread it and if that’s where your thinking is at you could take it that way. I was speaking to the thread,of which I have clarified, thank you very much.
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Huldah
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 11:58:51 am »

...how over the top it is getting with calling out possible bot members...

There have been a couple of suggestions, here and on another thread,  that this list may be inaccurate, although no one has pointed to any actual errors so far.

ECC leaders and alleged BOT members, if a name is incorrectly listed here, please join the forum or contact the admin and get it corrected, if it matters to you. Especially if you feel that you're being "defamed" by being associated with a BOT you're not part of, as some of your fellow ECC members have suggested.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 12:00:24 pm by Huldah » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2018, 12:22:07 pm »

It adds a level of accountability to the process. It also draws attention to potential conflicts of interest that some of the BOT members may be facing.

You do understand that if Mark is cleared of all wrongdoing by this board, the potential conflicts of interest mean that the final decision will always be suspect, even if Mark is really, truly 100% innocent, right? It's almost as if Mark is being set up for failure by the choice of BOT members. Ironically, his best hope for clearing his name may have been a truly independent investigation of the type Suzanne wanted but ECC rejected.

I'm not saying that the BOT isn't trying to do the right thing. I hope and pray they are. What I'm saying is that the admonition to "avoid every appearance of evil" has been ignored to the extent that a finding in Mark's favor might always be tainted, which would be a sad injustice if Mark is in fact innocent.
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ShineTheLight
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2018, 12:44:49 pm »

So now what?  How does this list of names of people you don't know change anything? 
So now what?  How does this list of names of people you don't know change anything? 

1. We can now all pray for them by name vs. just you & the rest of MD's supporters being able to.
2. For those who want to be able to trust 100% the decision this Board makes it allows ECC members to ask informed questions of their leadership such as:

a. Is Todd Goodwin impartial enough to be judge/jury over Mark?  How close is he to Mark and his family? Should he recuse himself?
b. Has Nick Wenner ever played a role in drafting legal documents for ECC, including NDAs of the kind mentioned by Suzanne's FB page?
c. Is it okay that Mark Bowen recused himself but then appointed someone who fully participates in the process?
d. Is it fair to Lynn and Jim to put them in the position of judge and jury for men they normally work for/with side by side and will perhaps again when this is all done?

Just a few of the question I'd have..
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ShineTheLight
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2018, 12:47:31 pm »

The point is not whether your answer would be the same in either thread. The point is showing courtesy, both to the person who started the thread and to readers who would like to be able to discuss a topic without unnecessary distractions.


I was speaking to the thread on how over the top it is getting with calling out possible bot members, and trying to manipulate the process of resolution in place.
I'll take my chances being sued for posting that a list of people might be on the board of a church...guessing it might be hard to find a lawyer to take that case..(especially since the only lawyer name has his membership on the BOT posted on his company website)..
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Greentruth
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2018, 01:13:56 pm »

Accusations, manipulation and speculation?  You don’t know who is doing what, when or where or why. You don’t know who will become involved, but it’s your life. I just wish some could let the process work itself out before trying to once again manipulate it. Of which I’m quite suspicious.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2018, 01:27:53 pm »

On the contrary, I very much hope the BOT will do what's right, and I think it's perfectly within their capabilities. 

Asking for accountability is not the same as saying someone is corrupt.  If anything, as others have stated, accountability is a gift.  It helps us keep from going down the wrong path.
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Glad to be free.
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