Numbers

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[IWishToRemainAnonymous]

https://cdn.subsplash.com/documents/KX3PVG/_source/fb0aaa83-3e9d-4599-80e4-171475bb03d8/document.pdf

[ReaperofGCM]

Wow, dare I ask how you came across this information? Love the little tid bit in this PDF with the comparison to big box stores.
According to this the organization is bleeding money.

[IWishToRemainAnonymous]

It was in the notes accompanying this. They are restructuring.

https://subspla.sh/hdhdfdv

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Down $100,000!  I would be impressed by those who sent a message by withholding their funds and perhaps marching with their feet.  But it all depends on why they left.  Was it because abuse was covered up or exposed?

[toprunner2786]

Can someone upload a new PDF? seems like the link might be down?

[Linda]

Ha! It looks like they took down the power point info with the charts and the hardware stores. Let me know if I'm missing something.

In fact, it looks like they took down the audio of the entire meeting.

Never fear, I have it downloaded. With this group, you always have to download before you comment because they are in the habit of removing things.

I actually thought that the statistics were to be expected, but the most interesting part of the power point was the restructuring of the leadership team done by a handful of ECC leaders and a group that was hired to advise them. Ironically, the actual church was left out of this decision, you know, leave it to the "experts" that you are paying to tell you what you want to hear. The purpose of the leader's meeting seemed to be to tell the church that a decision might be made and it might take them a while to accept the changes.

Under the proposed structure, they had two men heading up the whole shebang. A teaching elder and an administrative elder. These two men set the entire vision for the three remaining Evergreen churches. Urban is out at this point. This is the 2020 plan.

There were 4 teaching pastors under them. I think they said that the teaching elder was one of the 4. The teaching pastors were "under" the two head honcho pastors.

Then, under those 4 on the organizational structure were some administrative types as I recall and one pastor for each location. But, the location pastors and the teaching pastors were under the authority of the two head honcho pastors.

All of these were under the nebulous "BOARD". Of course, the missing bit here is who appoints the board? If the pastors appoint (and potentially therefore remove) the BOARD, then technically, the BOARD is under the pastors. It was hard to hear, but from what I could tell, one very astute woman at the meeting asked that very question. I don't think they had a substantive answer.

I can try to find the part on the audio where the numbers were quoted. Might take me a few days to get to it. In the meantime, did anyone take screen shots. Note to self: ALWAYS TAKE SCREEN SHOTS

[Linda]

Upon further review, I took screen shots. I'd be happy to answer questions about attendance numbers and proposed leadership structure.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I don't want to make you do too much work, but I am curious about the attendance numbers. 

[MovedOn]

I have the slideshow. Should I just post it on here?

[Rebel in a Good Way]

If you are able, that might be the easiest.

[MovedOn]

Rebel, I can't get the slideshow to post. Sorry! Send me a message if you want to discuss further.

[Linda]

I hand copied the chart starting with 2001 which was the all time high church attendance number. This number would have included ECC Bloomington, ECC New Hope, ECC Lakeville, The Rock, and The Rock Berlin.

(The earliest number they gave was 1988 and the attendance was 203.)

The 2004 number would have included the 5 churches above plus Urban Refuge.

The 2018 number would be ECC Bloomington, ECC Lakeville, ECC New Hope, The Rock, and Urban Refuge.

Where I noted things after the percent increase or decrease, I copied the notation they included calling that category "Church Plant/Notes"


2001     2894      4% The Rock Berlin
2002     2679     -7%
2003     2580     -4%
2004     2458     -4% Urban Refuge
2005     2150     -13%
2006     1967     -9%
2007     1955     -1%
2008     2243      15%
2009     2213     -1%
2010     2293      4%
2011     2410      5%
2012     2378     -1%
2013     2348     -1%
2014     2261     -4%
2015     2213     -2%
2016     2116     -4%
2017     2020     -5%
2018     1706     -16% Investigation    

[Phoenix]

Ha! It looks like they took down the power point info with the charts and the hardware stores. Let me know if I'm missing something.

In fact, it looks like they took down the audio of the entire meeting.

Never fear, I have it downloaded. With this group, you always have to download before you comment because they are in the habit of removing things.

I actually thought that the statistics were to be expected, but the most interesting part of the power point was the restructuring of the leadership team done by a handful of ECC leaders and a group that was hired to advise them. Ironically, the actual church was left out of this decision, you know, leave it to the "experts" that you are paying to tell you what you want to hear. The purpose of the leader's meeting seemed to be to tell the church that a decision might be made and it might take them a while to accept the changes.

All of these were under the nebulous "BOARD". Of course, the missing bit here is who appoints the board? If the pastors appoint (and potentially therefore remove) the BOARD, then technically, the BOARD is under the pastors. It was hard to hear, but from what I could tell, one very astute woman at the meeting asked that very question. I don't think they had a substantive answer.

I get concerned when conclusions are drawn without all the details.  This information you found does not seem to be complete.

I know someone still at EC Bloomington.  They chose to stay to see if Evergreen could pull out of this reformed.  We were like minded on some topics of church governance and he seemed hopeful as recently as early May.

(To all the regulars, I am not trying to start anything.  We left, I get all your points.  I also know that at least one eyes wide open person is still at this location seeing what happens.)

[Linda]

I get concerned when conclusions are drawn without all the details.  This information you found does not seem to be complete.

Not sure what you mean by complete.

I actually have screen shots of the documents that were removed and have the audio downloaded. PM me your email if you want me to send the screen shots.