Out the ECC Board of Trustees - No Transparency, No Justice

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[Greentruth]

Time to go to Church, peace

[Huldah]

Why should anyone believe your a member?

Accusations like this are just a distraction from the real issue, which is: What possible legitimate reasons could the board have for remaining anonymous?

Let's stay on topic here for once.

[Shamednomore]

A board that has no accountability to its congregants isn’t managing wisely.  When you say people in ecc tithe toGod, and they trust God to distribute money as needed, you are comparing your pastors to God.  This is exactly how GC thrives.  Leaders and elders have all the control.  So when they need to offer thousands in hush money, they can.  When they need to pay lawyer fees to defend a pastor who has been accused of inappropriate behavior by multiple women, they can.  God doesn’t defend secrecy and lies.  There is freedom and accountability in transparency.  

[Greentruth]

A board that has no accountability to its congregants isn’t managing wisely.  When you say people in ecc tithe toGod, and they trust God to distribute money as needed, you are comparing your pastors to God.  This is exactly how GC thrives.  Leaders and elders have all the control.  So when they need to offer thousands in hush money, they can.  When they need to pay lawyer fees to defend a pastor who has been accused of inappropriate behavior by multiple women, they can.  God doesn’t defend secrecy and lies.  There is freedom and accountability in transparency.  

Speak of distortion and manipulation. If you didn’t have the brood of vipers waiting to pounce for a kill, it would be way different. To ignore the facts of this matter at hand and make these kind of demands and assumptions is simply obstructive, callous and ignorant. This is coming from someone who doesn’t even attend ECC. I don’t know who the bot is at our church and don’t need to. The only reason a few here are caterwauling over it ,is to have another excuse to demean and try and control what they cannot.

[Shamednomore]

I’m not understanding why you are so passionate about it if you don’t go there and don’t give money there.  But to be clear, the brood of vipers was referring to the religious leaders within the church. 

[Shamednomore]

Also, GT, are you texting from church? 

[LisaFeist]

I prefer the word ululate to caterwauling.

Ululate: “howl or wail as an expression of strong emotion, typically grief” ululate.

It is a synonym to caterwauling.

#ululate

You’re welcome

[Huldah]

I don’t know who the bot is at our church and don’t need to.

But if you did need or want to know, would your current church tell you? And how would you feel if you asked, but they refused?

Again I ask, what legitimate purpose is served by keeping the names of the BOT secret from the members, or for that matter, from the public?

I don't think you understand the issues at play here, Greentruth. It isn't about whether an individual member wants to know who's on the board. It's about the board's willingness to be accountable to the congregation they serve. They're supposed to be servants of the local church, not masters.

[BTDT]

...but I will not engage with her going forward - I have concluded it is not fruitful.

STL, that seems quite wise to me. Instead of continued fruitless engagement, let's spend that energy in quiet, individual prayer for these ECC folks that have joined the forum. They're going through a lot right now, and in the end only God can open minds and hearts.

[I apologize in advance if this ends up posted multiple times. I was having a small side debate with the forum software.]

[Shamednomore]

Gretchen’s mom became a name in this because she told Suzanne she would burn in hell.
You really can’t be claiming that “because Blonde”, the board of directors can’t be public.  Talk about victim hood.  The board should be public knowledge.  There are current members who can’t find out who is on the board after asking their leaders.  So, the secrecy is NOT because someone forgot to update the website.  

Evergreen folks, I'd be interested in hearing your arguments for a secret board of trustees and against revealing their names. I assume you contribute financially to your church, which has assets in the $15 million dollar range and receives about $4.5 million in offerings every year. (Source: http://www.evergreenbloomington.com/uploads/Evergreen_Church_Audited_Financial_Statements_2016.pdf) Why are you willing to trust your hard-earned offerings to a board that won't even trust you with their names? This is not a rhetorical question. I would love to hear how you and other ECC members make peace with this in your own-hearts.

The board is not secret....and no one really cared until now.  They have never been "secret".  So does no one think that now is an odd time to be demanding who is on the board, during an active investigation in a time such as this.  A board that would  want zero outside influence into their situation and decision making.  And then you have a forum member that mass emails people, so sure, release their names so they can be added to mass email campaigns by Blonde...Jeromy, Gretchen, MD have been hit so far.  And then Gretchen's mom's fb.  Let's encourage that more.   As I have said before, you will see a list of names of people you have never heard of.  What does this change for you?  My guess is that the reason the board is not printed anywhere would be an oversight in managing a 5 location church, and that someone needs to remember to add to, and change the website every 3 years when board members change.   Additionally financial audits are available to the public, on the websites.  What do you think they are hiding?? 

[Godtrumpsall]

For the benefit of others, I'm answering the relevant questions raised in this post by GreenTruth but I will not engage with her going forward - I have concluded it is not fruitful.

1. I DID ask my pastor - months ago
2. I DID ask Lynn Newman - months ago
3. I AM a current member, I teach in children's ministry, I serve in other capacities, I have given faithfully.

This thread has taken no position on what the truth of any accusations is.  Knowing who provides financial oversight should be a basic requirement of anyone who gives money to any organization to not know/care implies a very poor standard of stewardship of your resources.  GreenTruth, I wish you nothing but the best. Please do not take my lack of engagement with you going forward as intended to cause hurt to you. I wish you God's love and peace.

So the yearly financial audits that are available to the public is poor stewardship? 

[LisaFeist]

God trumps all, where was it determined that it was a fake account? Please tell me. When I tried asking her she immediately deleted her comment. It was not a fake account. But whatever detours you I guess.

[Shamednomore]

No, it was not determined that it was a fake account.  That is a blatant lie.  And I agree with the beginning of this thread that members should not tithe until ECC becomes transparent.  And God and Christianity will not suffer.  GC is accountable for its actions and teachings and if they are affected in a negative way by the truth being exposed, they did the damage to themselves.  Imploding.  

Gretchen’s mom became a name in this because she told Suzanne she would burn in hell.

It was determined that this was a fake account, or did not come from her mom.  So common sense might tell me that since Blonde has made it his purpose to mass email MD, his son and daughter in law might also have a part in that fb issue.  And Yes!!!  They are victims to his attacks through email, such nasty content it would make your stomach turn.  But as others have pointed out, he is still a member of this forum.  Never blocked even though admins say they don't agree with his actions

I am a member, and have asked who the BOT were, and was told, without hesitation.  It is not secret.  But I can see people asking now, during a time such as this, that this information would not be shared, because at this point and time what are the intentions of the person asking?  When a man and a church are attacked on social media, by people once very trusted and loved, who are they to trust anymore?   And I applaud them on their level of discernment....because the people on here that claim to be members have an ill will toward the church.  Members that are taking the bait, and letting their imaginations run wild with no proof, and no patience to wait to see if the allegations have any merit. 

This, what is happening here, what goes on in this  forum and on social media all over the world will destroy the Church.  There will be no more Church, it will not survive such a deceitful and cunning attacks.  This is what persecution of the Church looks like in the developed world.  Leaders who are immoral and fall to sin, but also leaders that are moral, and stand for truth, and do not fear speaking what is in God's word, even when it is not popular, will be hated.  The Church will be destroyed from within, and from the outside.  This forum is just one tool being used. 

[Huldah]

I would very much like to know why you trust them when they don't trust you.

what does this even mean?  

It means that you trust them to manage your hard-earned donations, when they don't even think you can be trusted with the names of the trustees.

Why? Why is trust a one-way street at your church? Don't you think you're entitled to know the name of your own BOT?

How many years have you been out of a GCx church??

Irrelevant. My point about the lack of two-way trust stands or falls on its own merits. Why do you trust them with money you've worked hard for, when they don't even trust you with the names of the people who are managing that money?

EDIT TO ADD (because somehow I missed one of GTA's posts on the first read-through):

The board is not secret....and no one really cared until now.  They have never been "secret".

Are you saying you know who the current members are?

And after months of discussing the secrecy of the current board, and you defending the secrecy, you're now telling us that it was never secret all along?

If it isn't a secret, then why don't other current ECC members, such as ShineTheLight, know who's on it? If you know and they do not, does that mean that you're closely related to an insider? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'd like to understand if there's a two-tier level of privilege in your church.)

I hope you will clarify what you mean, because I don't understand whether you're saying that you know who's currently on the board or not.

[Godtrumpsall]

God trumps all, where was it determined that it was a fake account? Please tell me. When I tried asking her she immediately deleted her comment. It was not a fake account. But whatever detours you I guess.

suzanne stated that on her own page

[LisaFeist]

So because you saw that Suzanne commented on that and was so astounded that someone would say that, that’s your “proof” that it was a fake account huh?? Without even asking her??  The comment was so offensive she was being gracious in thinking it “may be” a fake account. It wasn’t.  But again, change the direction. And for the record, I don’t know anyone on here who agrees with the things blonde says, time to step off of that topic already. It holds no weight.

#ululating 

[LisaFeist]

yeah well you remembered incorrectly. But you threw that out there as fact.

So blonde being on here has to do with me, how? If blonde (whoever that is?) is on Facebook should I not be on Facebook too?

Back to topic. Current members, you really have a lot of power to promote change!

[Greentruth]

yeah well you remembered incorrectly. But you threw that out there as fact.

So blonde being on here has to do with me, how? If blonde (whoever that is?) is on Facebook should I not be on Facebook too?

Back to topic. Current members, you really have a lot of power to promote change!

Blonde was one of the original forum members who helped get it where it is today, along with Prince who recently stated ECC women are mentally not well, which would cover every Jesus Loving, Spirit filled, Godly women from any Spirit filled Church. Back to the topic, yes you are a part of what the originators have established and pushed, and that equates you with having NO power or authority to judge or convict anyone. Your lack of understanding, compassion and common sense on this issue DOES equate you to their actions.

[Greentruth]

So because you saw that Suzanne commented on that and was so astounded that someone would say that, that’s your “proof” that it was a fake account huh?? Without even asking her??  The comment was so offensive she was being gracious in thinking it “may be” a fake account. It wasn’t.  But again, change the direction. And for the record, I don’t know anyone on here who agrees with the things blonde says, time to step off of that topic already. It holds no weight.

#ululating 

I remember a Rebel in a good way saying it was deemed a forged post. What goes on hear or social media cannot be trusted, as anyone can manipulate whatever they want. This is the precise reason this whole jumbled ,accusation filled sham is nothing more than a fruitless effort to smear and attack ECC, from a handful of people who are going to throw themselves on the floor and kick and scream because they didn’t get their way to push their preconceived distorted agenda.

[Linda]

Blonde was one of the original forum members who helped get it where it is today,

This is not true. Blonde was no more involved in the forum than you are.