Ravi the rapist — another sexual exploitation exposed

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[PietWowo]

Back to the subject of the thread. I decided to go back and listen to one of Ravi's speeches. I was kind of wondering if, in hindsight, there might be some red flag that would foreshadow the dreadful turn his life took. The speech I decided on was his 2004 speech at the Mormon Tabernacle. It was really controversial when he chose to speak to Mormons on their own turf. That upset a lot of Christians.

Wow. I had forgotten Ravi's power to use moving language and parables. He was really, really good. It was so strange to listen to him preaching against the very things he indulged in. (I don't know if he was harassing women as early as 2004, but he was already claiming fraudulent academic credentials by then).

However, on a negative note, Ravi's explanation of the gospel didn't take Mormon-speak into account. Mormons use many of the same words and phrases we use, but they define them very differently. (I'm sure everyone here already knows that, of course.) Ravi made no effort to challenge the Mormon understanding of who Jesus was. He simply allowed them to hear his words through their own filter. I suppose someone could say, in his defense, that perhaps he didn't have a good grasp on the differences between Mormonism and Christianity. But then, the previous year (2003), he had co-edited a revision of Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults, so it seems unlikely that he was that uninformed.

Anyway, it just seemed like such a tragedy that he went down such a dark path.

And other than the failure to address Mormon error, there were no red flags that I could detect.

I agree with that. The Youtube videos of "Wretched" by a guy named "Todd" had a very similar video and he mentioned another thing too... You might watch it.

I personally think that God can use people regardless of their lifestyle.... (Not to at all encourage an ungodly lifestyle). I know a man, who started a huge ministry. They saw tens of thousands of people get saved and many churches started. He started one of the biggest Bible Colleges in the world. What hardly anyone knew during that time for 12 years he lived in an adulterous relationship with his secretary.... When they found out, he had to step down of course. He kept on being faithful in sharing the Gospel worldwide. He passed away. But even though he had been such a disappointment to so many people. Many, many people are extremely thankful for him, because he shared the Gospel with them. The big sad thing is that this man, who was so fruitful could have been so much more fruitful. The same with Ravi. It's sad.... But God used him. So we can rejoice in that. Remember Paul in Philippians 1, even though people preach the Gospel from bad motives we can be thankful that the Gospel is preached. But again what a huge set back on a huge ministry.

[PietWowo]

Re-reading this thread, you said: “I have looked through the documents on Mark Darling's situation“.

What documents have you seen?
Who showed you these documents?

That will be revealed at the seventh trumpet!!!

[PietWowo]

Yes, false teaching harms people, because lies harm people.  However we should forgive. If you want to read good examples on that read the story of Corrie ten Boom in "The Hiding Place" and of Elizabeth Elliot with the Auca indians kiling her husband.

First, you're assuming that we haven't forgiven.

Second, Corrie forgave, and then went on to spend the rest of her life speaking and writing about her experiences. Elizabeth forgave, and then wrote a book about the murders. If anything, these examples support what we're doing here.

That's good then that you all have forgiven!!! But remember the message of Corrie was not about how bad the SS'ers were in the concentration camps. It was a message of forgiveness....

The same with Elizabeth. I know one of the kids personally, whose dad was one of the five missionaries. Their message is not about tribal killing in Equador. It's the message of forgiveness....

Just like when we share the Gospel, our message is about what Christ did for us and His great love for us.... We don't talk about how horrible the Sadducees and the Romans were. That's not the focus of my message.

[Linda]

If you have seen the report (that we were told only the Board of Trustees was allowed to see), then ECC leadership has misled the victims. My thought is that the document you are referring to is “The Reckoning” and not the report submitted by Joan that contained actual confidential testimony.

I hope that is what you are referring to, but organizations like RZIM has shown, can come up with convoluted spiritual reasons for making unwise choices.

 

Re-reading this thread, you said: “I have looked through the documents on Mark Darling's situation“.

What documents have you seen?
Who showed you these documents?

That will be revealed at the seventh trumpet!!!

[Huldah]

PWW, as Linda pointed out, this thread is to discuss Ravi Zacharias. We have all gotten off topic, and I was trying to get us back on track. If you absolutely must continue your favorite themes of The Innocence of Mark Darling and The Error of This Forum, please start a separate thread for that. Thank you.

[PietWowo]

If you have seen the report (that we were told only the Board of Trustees was allowed to see), then ECC leadership has misled the victims. My thought is that the document you are referring to is “The Reckoning” and not the report submitted by Joan that contained actual confidential testimony.

I hope that is what you are referring to, but organizations like RZIM has shown, can come up with convoluted spiritual reasons for making unwise choices.

 

Re-reading this thread, you said: “I have looked through the documents on Mark Darling's situation“.

What documents have you seen?
Who showed you these documents?

That will be revealed at the seventh trumpet!!!

A lot, lot more than the report that you have seen...

[Linda]

I haven't seen the report.

The results of the report were supposed to be confidential. Only the BOT was to see the report.

ECC pastors were not to have seen the report.

I am calling your bluff.

If you stand by your statement that you have seen the report, then ECC leadership has broken their confidentiality agreement.

The report states:

"The full investigator’s report is a confidential document for the EC BOT only and the EC BOT will not release the entire report.  Other than what is reported here, its contents will not be shared or discussed with anyone including Evergreen staff and pastors. The EC BOT will also not release the names of all the witnesses who participated in the investigation."

PLEASE DON'T RESPOND HERE ON THE RAVI TOPIC. I COPIED AND PASTED THIS TO A NEW TOPIC SHOULD YOU CARE TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION OF THE DARLING SITUATION THAT MANY OF US HAD NOT DISCUSSED FOR MONTHS.

[PietWowo]

I'm not telling you which report I've seen...

[Janet Easson Martin]

Recently I heard from someone whose husband received his PhD from Nyack College and is a pastor under Christian Missionary Alliance.  She shared they are in a process of removing all of his content, if I heard correctly.  An author they know who had previously published a book with a foreword by Zacharias has discarded the books, and is printing one with a new forward.  

As we have learned Christian & Missionary Alliance (C&MA), which ordained Zacharias, revoked his ordination on Feb. 12.  Many published this statement from them, “It is with great sorrow that The Christian and Missionary Alliance . . . acknowledges that one of its licensed workers, Ravi Zacharias, now deceased, engaged in a pattern of sinful behavior that has caused enormous pain to many and undermined the witness of Christ’s Church,”

“...RZIM is already in the process of removing Ravi's content from the ministry's website and social media, "including publications, videos, and other forms of content...”. “RZIM Canada: ‘The messenger’ Harms the Message” is the subtitle in an article from ChurchLeaders.com. This Canadian branch is closing their doors.  I think the Branch in Africa may have closed theirs also.  

ChurchLeaders’ also reports “Apologist Lee Strobel is revising “The Case for Faith” to remove an interview with Zacharias.

(From: https://churchleaders.com/news/390621-rzim-canada-and-christian-and-missionary-alliance-cut-ties-with-late-apologist.html)


The obvious questions many of us (formerly in GCx) have been asking are:

What wasn’t McCotter publically rebuked calling out his error and spiritual abuse as the scriptures demand, and his position as a leader revoked, (especially in light of the accountability “safety” measure of plurality of elders)?  

Why weren’t his teachings and practices viewed with horror and disallowed in the GCx Church Organization, rather than carried forth?  Why were his teaching materials still used and distributed over 30 years after it began, and 20+ years after the “The Statementof Error”?  


Why is McCotter honored and frequently pictured in the GCx 50 Year “Jubilee” Video rather than remorsefully denounced?


Why would McCotter leaving the organization absolve them from guilt in sharing in his sins by hiding them, remaining silent, and accusing his victims of slander, and evil intent?  




Could brutal “spiritual abuse or spiritual rape” be somewhat similar to “sexual abuse or rape” by it’s ravaging harm in it’s long lasting but often invisible effects?

[Huldah]

When a false leader is exposed, there's always pushback from his followers, friends, or family who can't accept the truth. These people frequently point to all the people who've benefited from the false leader's ministry. "How," they demand, "can he be a false teacher when he led so many people to the Lord or encouraged so many people in their walk?"

It's a fair question.

Recently I heard an interesting point of view. Someone--sorry, but I forget who it was--pointed out that there were probably people who got saved as a result of the preaching of Judas. Judas was one of the original Twelve.  He was probably even a decent preacher who knew the Word. He studied directly with Jesus, after all! The other disciples, who spent years in company with him, never suspected that his heart was completely unregenerate.

God can use his word to accomplish his purposes even when that word comes through an unbeliever.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't expose false teachers. We should. We're commanded to expose them. For all the good that they may stumble into, they also do real harm to real people. The people who say that it "harms the cause of Christ" to expose unrepentant false teachers are wrong. Covering up for wickedness is what harms the cause of Christ. If the church tolerates leaders who practice things like greed or sexual exploitation, then the church has no credibility.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Agree, Huldah!  So glad you brought this misused point to our attention.

That seems to be an excuse GCx leaders and churches have used for years to hide their abusive false teaching and practices - ‘but people are getting saved’.  As if the good things should erase the bad.  Would we tell that to a battered wife?  How about to a child molested by a pastor?  Should we tell that to Ravi’s victims?  That abusive church leaders must be allowed to freely continue on so the gospel might not be hindered?  We all realize how sick that logic is.  The gospel is being perverted by their sinful actions - period.  

Men don’t save men.  God’s Truth and His Spirit must open their eyes to rescue men from sin and eternal darkness.  He can use anything he chooses.  Many people in Muslim countries are coming to Christ through dreams.  God spoke to Joseph about Mary in a dream.  Jesus spoke to unconverted Paul in a Vision.