Review on Facebook

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[FeministRebel]

I just did something that I've thought of doing for years, but never had the courage. I left an honest review for my old church on their FB page. Not because of resentment, not because of hate, not even because I do not believe in Christianity anymore... But because I feel it is my OBLIGATION to warn and let fellow believers know that this is NOT a healthy church where they can come and be freed in their faith. That it is a place with a lot of cult-like tactics, and control.

I should've done this 15 years ago.

Perhaps we all should. It might give courage to others to follow suit. I finally simply do NOT CARE if they attack me, or come after me, anymore. I am free of their mind games. Free of their threats.

Peace.

[margaret]

Good on you! Took courage!

[Differentstrokes]

Good for you! Would you be willing to share it here? I have often thought of doing the same, but I am scared of sounding bitter and angry....

[Janet Easson Martin]

That's great, FeministRebel.  If a church is detrimental to others' lives and trust in Jesus then members and  potential members should know.  Paul sent a public letter out to believers warning them of this type of destruction to their faith.

[Badger]

Protestantism started with a letter writing person.  If your review has 95 theses or less, I think you're doing just fine

[Neville Longbottom]

Good for you, Feminist Rebel! I also took the liberty of writing accurate, negative reviews of my former church on their Facebook page as well as Google. It made for some interesting private and public discussions from current and former GCC people.    There is a lot of freedom in realizing that they no longer have any control over you! Relish it!

[OneOfMany]

Your post led me to go to Evergreen's Facebook page. The banner for the page says "The Beauty of Criticism" scroll down and one of the top posts displays a book that is titled "Talk less, Say more.".

In the context of current events I find this offensive.

Which Facebook page had your review Feminist Rebel? I would like to read it.

[FeministRebel]

I out myself with this, but alas... I don't care.

https://www.facebook.com/lizmari.m.collazo/posts/10155701289353691:0

[OneOfMany]

I out myself with this, but alas... I don't care.

https://www.facebook.com/lizmari.m.collazo/posts/10155701289353691:0

Yes!!! Way to stand up! I must get the courage to speak out like this. Well done!!

[Phoenix]

Read the review.

Just to be clear, you do understand the many or most churches on the conservative, Christian side will not believe in evolution, right?
Was that really part of the reason you left, or is just one way you disagree with the church?

[Badger]

Read the review.

Just to be clear, you do understand the many or most churches on the conservative, Christian side will not believe in evolution, right?
Was that really part of the reason you left, or is just one way you disagree with the church?

I would agree with you Phoenix, that most evangelical churches wouldn't teach evolution.  I don't think most denominations tell you exactly what to believe in regards to creationism.  For example, I remember reading a GCC associated church Bible study in which the reader was told that one would have to believe in new-earth creationism because that is what scripture says.  The study's take away was you believe everything in the Bible exactly how it is written.  Personally. I believe in an old world creation in which God could have created how ever he wanted.  The important part of Genesis is for me is that it was intentional and God was the creator.

I don't think most denominations instruct their laity exactly what to believe beyond this.  Some GCC churches are making a gray area, black and white.  How old or young the earth is and exactly how God created is up for debate.  Whether Genesis is allegorical vs literal is also up for debate.  To say one knows exactly how God created or how old the earth is going beyond our abilities to know and taking scripture beyond it's scope as well.

[Phoenix]

I don't think most denominations tell you exactly what to believe in regards to creationism.  

I would not feel comfortable making that statement, I have only been a part of two and both ardently believe in young earth.  I will say I know others around the area at other churches and their churches are young earth also, but I think I digress.

I think the key is about how a church handles someone who disagrees.  The extent of the disagreement also matters.

While I applaud the courage to post the review I think including the evolution comment in the review distracts from the point because many would see that word and dismiss other vital parts of the review.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I agree that mentioning evolution could be a distraction, but I guess it depends on who your audience is.  I, for one, didn't know that my former GCC church was incredibly conservative.  I was attracted by the people were so welcoming and loved Jesus.  If I had been aware of some of their beliefs I might never have tried it.  But being a young person, it never occurred to me to "vet" their doctrine. As it stands, while I have many doctrinal disagreements with GCC, my criticisms of them remain that they misapply scripture to teach abusive techniques to manipulate people. 

The next part I say respectfully: The idea that mentioning evolution will weaken her criticisms is the same principle that I feel in that, me being a woman, automatically weakens any perspective/criticism/idea I would have.  I know John Hopler and GCC always want to deal with criticisms directly with one of their leaders, as that is their interpretation of Matt 18 (which IMO is a misapplication when used for institutions).  I don't know that I would even put myself in to that type of situation.  I wonder if perhaps I should be willing, but if I sit down with my former pastor, I am not sitting down as his equal.  And I just don't know why I would participate in that. My husband could meet and say the exact same things and he would be taken seriously--but we just don't operate that way in life anymore so I don't know how "reconciliation" is possible in that way. 

While I applaud the courage to post the review I think including the evolution comment in the review distracts from the point because many would see that word and dismiss other vital parts of the review.

[Phoenix]

And I respectfully ask you to look at my post and tell me where I used the word weaken?

Distraction: "a thing that prevents someone from giving full attention to something else."
Weaken:  "make or become weaker in power, resolve, or physical strength"

The words are very different.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Phoenix, didn't mean to change your words.

The parallel I was trying to make: If mentioning evolution prevents some from giving full attention to the other issues mentioned, me being a woman prevents them from giving full attention from any issue I mention.

And I brought up the interpersonal communication bit because the pastor was quick to jump on there about PMing him privately, but I know how I would feel about communicating one on one with my old pastor (the one who told me that women were genetically inferior going back to Eve). Thumbs down.  BTW, I have "done Matthew 18" when it came to church issues. But not with people who think it is inherently sinful to learn anything from me.

[GodisFaithful]

I was just looking at Matthew 18.

This is way off the thread, but I wanted to respond to Rebel.

I'm not one to take God's word lightly and say that I will only obey if I think it is going to work. It is interesting that Jesus mentions taking the problem to the "church" before the church was established. I am just going to venture to say the the church that Jesus was talking about is established on plenty of other teachings about the church. It would be a healthy church, where the leaders are humble servant leaders and do not abuse their position of power and authority.

I had a situation years ago in a church where we only stayed three years (had some great times with families there but the structure turned out to be a disaster.) Anyway, the pastor and his mother sort of ran the church. And she stopped talking to me because we made a decision about our daughter that she did not agree with. I knew it would get worse if I talked to this lady, and I knew that talking to the pastor would also be a disaster. I did not take it likely that I did not try to reconcile, but Matthew 18 seemed out of the question in this dysfunctional system and we quietly left, didn't say anything negative when we left. Soon after, the lady had a falling out with her son, the pastor, and she left the church. I knew that the issue was actually something different than me. (This church no longer exists. The pastor never wanted any accountability.)

Matthew 18 can work to resolve conflicts when pastors are humble, when the ground is level at the foot of the cross. 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, didn't mean to change your words.

The parallel I was trying to make: If mentioning evolution prevents some from giving full attention to the other issues mentioned, me being a woman prevents them from giving full attention from any issue I mention.

And I brought up the interpersonal communication bit because the pastor was quick to jump on there about PMing him privately, but I know how I would feel about communicating one on one with my old pastor (the one who told me that women were genetically inferior going back to Eve). Thumbs down.  BTW, I have "done Matthew 18" when it came to church issues. But not with people who think it is inherently sinful to learn anything from me.

Got it.   

[Huldah]

My take was similar to Phoenix's. That is, I thought the criticism came across as saying that creationism and denying climate change were examples of abuse rather than simply areas of disagreement.

[Mango]

This thread and FeministRebel's FB post are quite illustrative of her world-view as well as the views of those who are supporting her and are frequent posters on this forum. Wow. Evolution, Global Warming, Feminism, I mean who doesn't want their church focused on these Biblical essentials.

[Huldah]

Mango, Feminist Rebel's views on these issues are her own. While I disagree with her on some of these things, I fully support her right to speak out on her beliefs.

For the record, I'm a political and religious conservative. I'm a creationist. I don't believe there's any scientific basis to man-made climate change, although I refuse to debate that here; I'm just mentioning it to point out that the forum old-timers are not all leftist, as you seem to be implying. But even if we were all leftist, atheist, socialist, evolutionist, or whatever, how would that make our negative experiences at GCx churches less real? The truth is still the truth, no matter who's saying it.