The Rock, Evergreen, and proper Biblical Hermeneutics.

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[KnowingGod]

While I attended the Rock a church I asked a question regarding Mark Darlings and the other pastors on staff seminary training. The response I received looking back is scary. “Seminary? More like Cemetery training.” Another response to this concern was because the apostles never attended a seminary college GCC pastors don’t eaither. While I’ve heard of a select few pastors within the national GCC organization attending seminary training, the majority don’t. While Mark Darling and the pastors at the rock had genuine faith and passion for the Word of God, it’s important to realize how important it is who we allow to operate the Word so to speak to others. You don’t need to be a seminary graduate to read the Word of God, but proper training to teach to a congregation is necessary to avoid the errors often taught within GCC. Would you ever allow a surgeon to cut into you if they never attended medical school? The Pastors at The Rock haven’t been trained in proper Biblical hermeneutics so they teach off of their own life experiences and add a few scripture into thier sermons. If you attend the Rock when was the last time you heard a sermon on a major Biblical doctrine such as the Atoment, Justifcaion, etc..? The apostles were given revelation through the Holy Spirit after they walked with Jesus Himself on earth. Since reveleation is no longer given to men and women but rather illumination to the Christian through the Holy Spirit, proper training like seminary is very important to have as the Word of God should be treated with reverence.

John McArthurs teaching about this was very good.
https://youtu.be/L2_4TWZBc54

[Linda]

Also, the apostles all sat under the teaching of Jesus and had personally seen him (including Paul who met Him on the road to Damascus). So there was that.

Interesting how they lump all seminaries together. I guess their logic is, "All seminaries are "cemeteries", however our GCLI program is perfectly accurate. Join us. Will you?"

[DarthVader]

On another thread, I made the point that Paul, the Apostle chosen after Jesus ascension was, by any reasonable definition, seminary trained, and God used his training to take the gospel to other cultures which valued learning and knowledge, culturally, like the Greeks and Romans. I see him much the same way that in our culture, Tim Keller, for example is very effective sharing the gospel and gets invited to places like google HQ, several universities, to be a speaker, on stage with agnostic and aetheist academics, and can hold his own.  Like Paul found, it's not just enough to know the bible, you have to be able to put in into the cultural and philosophical framework of the world at any given time to engage your listener (e.g., seek first to understand then to be understood).

On the flip side, the idea that after a few years of undergrad and seminary, bam, you're ready to be a pastor of a church also has it's flaws, and it would be great to find a model that integrates the idea of apprenticeship along with seminary training better than most churches do.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I believe there are several factors involved in someone being qualified to be a pastor, but nearing the completion of my seminary degree, I have found this education invaluable. 

One of the main benefits has been to recognize what is orthodox and what other hundreds of matters are simply different expressions of Christian faith that have biblical backing as well as centuries of history.  It is humbling to place ourselves within Christian history.  It is humbling to realize that passionate, intelligent believers can practice different doctrines and that in very few things can we know for sure we are correct.  This also works against the temptation to believe we are the only ones practicing Christianity the "right" way.  Granted, we need to land somewhere on many different beliefs, but to do so with an awareness of the other options and a clear understanding of why we believe like we do helps us hold our beliefs and be in community with other believers in the Church.

I think even how pastors approach the bible, assessing genres, analyzing themes and how each section fits in to the overall theme, what does the sociohistorical context mean for us today...if you are not aware of your presuppositions, you will hold as fact a highly subjective interpretation.  I think GCLI creates generations of leaders who are not trained to consider presuppositions and just assume that what has been passed down to them is accurate.  Most biblical scholars do not hold to a literal simple plain text reading of Scripture. 

I personally wouldn't be part of a church where the preachers/teachers did not have formal bible college or seminary training after my own seminary experience. I think it's fine if there is a staff of people pastoring or ministering in other ways, but someone needs to have that foundation to determine and teach doctrine. 

That being said, my former pastor who earned and MDiv ended up in the newspaper so it's not the end all, be all.