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Author Topic: collegiate campus church  (Read 23318 times)
tsessef
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« on: July 22, 2017, 09:16:57 pm »

Hi, I used to go to a gcmc/collegiate campus church (an h2o). It took me a while to see the warning signs. They've convinced themselves they're different and aren't like the churches on here, but I experienced a lot of what is on here. Seems like the staff's job is really just trying to get people to do stuff, esp.  go to the fall retreats and mission trips. It's good to be able to read about other people's experiences.   
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margaret
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 01:40:14 pm »

Welcome, tsessef. Glad you're here.
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2c57
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2017, 12:14:42 pm »

I was a part of two different GCMC/Collegiate churches. The general vibe was that you had worth if you showed up to church, or small groups, or hang outs, or spring break trips, or LT’s, etc. If you invited your friends to an event, then you definitely had worth. If you didn’t invite your friend, then you weren’t doing enough. You might have been singled out as “bad soil”. I remember a pastor singling out a single person by name, and saying that the staff shouldn’t spend time with him because he wasn’t going to be a leader and wasn't "good soil". Going to LT was the most important thing you could do as a Christian. Internships, summer jobs, summer school....none of that compared. There was a sense of shame and disappoint if you didn't go to an LT, Fall Retreat, Spring Break trip, etc.

I was caught up in pushing all of the church events for awhile, until I realized that I felt like I was just pressing people to go to events, so that we could get more people to go to events, so they could get more people at our events…It was less about knowing God and more about producing numbers. It was less about helping people follow Christ, and more about producing a person that could attract others to the church. I felt like people were valued based on what they could produce for the church, and not on being a child of God. It was honestly exhausting.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 05:19:59 pm »

WELCOME 2c57!

Your post above pretty much sums up my time in GCx; and I believe most people's experience in GCx, whether they admit it or not.

Yes, being zealous for GCx and selling it's organization to others in order to build its pyramid was of prime importance. It didn't seem quite so exciting to those in charge if you led someone to Christ and they didn't come to the GCx church.  I totally agree that you were esteemed based on the numbers of people you brought to GCx whether they previously knew Christ or not.  In fact, during my time there christians who attended churches beside GCx were looked down upon; no matter what they were doing for God.  

There was a lot of undignified coercion going on.  To the point of harming people's relationships with family, friends, and romantic ties.  The harassment and intimidation was soul crushing!  I mean that in the most serious way.  It stole confidence and assurance of believers' personal relationship with God.  It shoved them and their God-given gifts to the sidelines!  After a while many were made to feel unworthy and DISQUALIFIED to even serve God.  

This man-made FEARFUL picture of God was ERRONEOUSLY painted for us, so that we would fearfully stay and we would fearfully "obey"!  The pressure was scary and very stressful. This "God" had little patience, very limited mercy, conditional love, fake kindness, and very distant forgiveness.  It was VERY different from the REAL JESUS, our unconditionally loving Shepherd who is infinitely full of tender mercies and joy toward us.

Your post seems to be a picture of people serving an idol.  The Bible speaks of captive Israelite slaves used to build a man-made image intended to receive glory instead of God.  We were for the most part those "slaves" burdened with a heavy weight we were NEVER intended to drudge along.

NO WONDER many believers once held captive under GCx's burdensome spell want little or nothing to do with church.  They were falsely taught a VERY DEMANDING, ENSLAVING and HEAVY-HANDED image of God and his church.


Thanks for speaking the truth,

Janet



« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 06:08:25 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Ned_Flanders
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2017, 12:27:28 pm »

I wonder if the current GCx Churches try to keep people from dating relationships like the old ones did. 

One big turn-off for me was that some of those people seemed to want to live like perpetual college students.  Does it seem weird to anyone else here that a 30- or 40-something person would still be hanging around with college students? 
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2c57
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2017, 06:56:47 pm »

Dating was a very negative concept in one of the Collegiate churches I attended. The other one didn’t seem to mind much. However, I was at an LT with students from several other churches, and I heard a talk from a Collegiate pastor about how people shouldn't date. So, I think the idea still has roots there, even if some churches are changing.

Both churches I was involved in were college-focused. They met on campuses and the vast majority of people there were college students. In that case, I can understand a 30- 40- something pastor or staff member spending some time with the students. I think spending an occasional Friday with students makes sense. Or maybe attending a church cook out with students. I could see going out to lunch with students after church every now and then. I can even see meeting with some students to talk about Bible stuff or spiritual things.

What seems to cross a line is when those pastors/staff spend every Friday with the students. Then maybe they see them on Thursdays for small groups, and they saw them on Monday in the dorms, and again on Wednesday for Bible study.…etc. I am even more uncomfortable with staff and pastors who meet regularly with students and pry into their lives. Again, I can understand meeting up with a student who needs to talk about something from time to time. But I saw staff and pastors act like pseudo counselors. One pastor even told my friend not to pursue counseling because he and the church could handle her issues. She was dealing with issues of abuse in her life.

Students are supposed to be getting involved in clubs and organizations. They are supposed to be studying and making friends. They are supposed to be involved in research and school spirit. I do think it is good for them to be involved in church and church community. However, I am afraid that Collegiate churches often demand all of their time which prevents them from exploring different things in college.

When I was a student, I was involved in other campus activities for awhile. I had a cool campus job for a few hours a week, and I did different clubs and attended sporting events. Over time, all of my time started going to the collegiate church. I felt that’s what I had to do. That was the behavior that was rewarded and encouraged. I let go of all my friends who were not part of Collegiate. I could still “pray for them and invite them things”, but spending time with them was seen as a negative thing.

My best friends became staff/pastors that were 10 years older than me. Over time, something else started to happen. The pastors/staff would switch from being my buddies, to being my behavior watch dogs. For example, I went to a party one night and had a drink. The next day, I received a call from one of these guys saying I needed to meet with them right away. They then confronted me about what they had heard, and told me that I needed to come up with some kind of plan to get out of those situations. They also said they weren’t sure I could be a leader if I didn’t “get help”. I was 21 mind you. So this person who was supposed to be my friend, pulled the authority card. It was very jarring for me. Was this person my friend? My leader? My boss? Did this person care about me? Or did they only care about my actions and how they affected the appearance of the church? The relationship lines were very blurred. The role from friend, to leader, to mentor, to boss, to staff member/pastor was constantly changing and I couldn’t keep up. Those relationships became very unhealthy very quickly. The staff members wanted me as a friend, because they spent all their time with me and the other students in my small group, but they wanted to wield their authority card whenever they wanted. So I was constantly on edge. It was not a two-way street, because I could not confront the staff if they did something questionable. I was either dismissed as being young, or I was seen as divisive.

I must admit that I did some of the things I am talking about. As an older student and for a bit after I graduated, I pried into students lives, and I demanded too much time and energy from students. I treated some students like projects, and I was hard on them. I am glad that I am out of the church and that I am able to see the negative things I did. I have tried to apologize to former students for these things. Part of why I joined this forum was to try to make some amends for being part of these unhealthy churches for so long.
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Ned_Flanders
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 05:34:53 am »

Hi 2c57,

What years (from when to when) were you involved in GCx, if I may ask?
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tsessef
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 09:56:20 am »

Almost all the older collegiate pastors are GC guys from the 80's or early 90's. Like the rest of GCX, not many have much for seminary experience besides online or Moody Bible Institute. Most of their counsel comes from other collegiate pastors. Greg Van Nada is seen as the infallible source of all knowledge. They don't have to be accountable to any outside organizations, like a denomination, besides other pastors who have the same background, approach, and blindness. 
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margaret
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 06:25:30 am »

"Behavior Watch Dogs"....PERFECT description!

The elder at our church once told me in so many words that his spiritual gift was was exhortation and rebuke. Basically, he felt called to point out everyone's faults.  No wonder he always felt like nobody liked him.
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Huldah
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 01:39:39 pm »

Margaret, I laughed out loud when I got to the last sentence of your post. I know it's not really funny, but still.
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margaret
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 03:46:55 pm »

It really is laughable!
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tsessef
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 11:35:12 am »

I attended an "h2o Manmakers" conference several years ago where all college males came together to listen to the charismatic pastors among them. One of the pastors, John Freeman, in front of the entire church, talked about how while on a spring break trip at a beach he masturbated to the college girls on the beach while he was in the water. The room filled with awkward laughter and he laughed himself and made a joke about jellyfish. He used that to talk about being open with the other guys in the group. This type of oversharing is rampant in Collegiate/GCM. Tons of emphasis on getting people to share their sins, and by them sharing, and in this case being very flippant about egregious sin, they can get 20 year-old guys to share their sins with each other and the staff. This helps build community, which ultimately is how they "secure commitments" as they would say.

These men are sick. They create systems where they have power, and they run the "churches" how they want to. Once you become a pastor, you operate by a different set of rules, leaving behind a trail of victims in your quest to "make disciples," aka get more people in your church. As they say, you can't pass on what you don't have, and very few of these men have dealt with their emptiness, so they're driven by a desperation success to feed their egos rather than by love of God and others.  

« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 11:39:46 am by tsessef » Logged
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