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Author Topic: Evergreen Experience (Part I)  (Read 18315 times)
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2018, 06:16:17 am »

Lisa, thank you. Very well said. I sent you a PM.

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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2018, 06:21:10 am »

Lisa, it is so hard to know where someone is in their healing process when they tell their story.   I didn't know if this was all fresh, you were feeling intimidated by the rude responses by some commenters, or just delving in to your story for the first time.  I really weighed even responding to you on the forum vs PM because I didn't want to create new activity on the thread that might encourage the wrath of the people who deny abuse.  I'm so glad to see you can more than hold your own!

Thanks for using your experience and training to share some important truths about assault and abuse.  Sadly, it is obvious how much such education is needed.
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2018, 06:23:15 am »

Lisa-
Thanks for sharing your painful story.
Some understand it and some do not.  
Thanks for having the courage to speak out on this forum.  Your story matters, and you matter.

I was with you when you courageously spoke to John van Dyck, to Doug Patterson and Mark Bowen at your house, to Brent Knox and Mark Darling at the church office.  You did your part to tell your story.  You addressed the issues of not having a system of accountability or a way to address concerns. You told them you were appalled at their lack of accountability and no way for member's to resolve complaints.  You told them how hurt you had been by the Plymouth pastors, pastors wife and the church body at Plymouth. ( New Hope) That is on them now.

To be treated like a " project" or be shunned in a relationship is extremely hurtful.  It still hurts my heart when I think about what happened in your experience at Evergreen.  
Your friend- Heidi van Dyck Anfinson

Heidi - Thank you so much for this post!  You have been by my side this entire time, even though you had such strong ties to the church.  You supported me when I confronted the leaders of the church and stood by me even when we had differing opinions.  I know what a stress this situation with EC has been on you and the toll it has taken on your life.  I appreciate your honesty and that you took responsibility for your actions.  Most of all, thank you for believing everything I told you, no matter how difficult it was for you to grasp what was happening at your church.  You are a true friend and I will never forget all that you have done for me!




« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 06:25:56 am by Lisa1863 » Logged
GretchenGail
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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2018, 06:40:14 am »

Guys does no one here stop and think "Hmmm, someone posting anonymously, their side of the story - I wonder what the nameless people they're referring to would have to say about their side of the story?" This is not the format or place to be posting these stories and it hurts other victims of sexual abuse (like my own mother and wife) who have boldly come forward with their faces and their lives and found freedom, healing, peace, love, grace and understanding in the same church and around the same people. Lisa we have no way of knowing if you're making this all up, if you are who you say you are, nothing. We have nothing to go off of. If all these things really happened to you (before and after the church) this kind of posting will not bring you any healing or peace whatsoever. It will continue to let the people to feel hurt and abused you, abuse you over and over again and it allows people to abdicate their own personal responsibility in all the relationships that have been burned. Just because you read a story on the internet, doesn't mean it's true. It's this kind of anonymous posting that allows people spread lie after lie, with no consequence. It just stirs doubts and fears and anxieties into every corner of a persons faith and relationship, which according this very website, is now defined as abusing another person.

As a rule, I don't engage with people who are unable to have an emotionally mature conversation, as it is a waste of my time and energy.  However, in this situation I am putting aside my usual stance to give you some information that I hope may be of use to you. 

My name is Lisa Burkett.  The only reason I didn't originally post as myself was because I was trying to avoid calling out people involved in my situation.  They already know who they are and I have told all of them personally how their actions have affected my life. 

As far as your accusation that I did not "boldly coming forward" as a survivor of sexual abuse and sexual assault, you are greatly misinformed.  I was honest and open with my past experiences back when I was a EC member and continue to be today. In fact, I founded an organization five years ago that trains PTSD service dogs for first responders.  As part of my willingness to help others who have experienced trauma, I have publicly (in my business plan, on our website, in presentations I have made, and at public events) and privately shared my story with others who have PTSD, as well as the general public.  As far as EC goes, in addition to my friends, I shared my story with five pastors either in a counseling setting or as a part of my attempt to hold them responsible for their lack of accountability to each other and to the congregation at large. 

Regarding women fabricating stories about sexual assault:   I would like to share some statistics with you.  A government funded research study found that approximately 63% of women DO NOT report incidences of sexual assault to the police.  In addition, the percentage of women who report false accounts of sexual violence are 2-7%.  Based on those statistics, if 100 women came forward, at the MOST 2 - 7 of them would be reporting a false claim.  In addition, one of the reason a report is classified as false is that the victim did not come forward at the time (which can be for many other reasons than the report being untrue).  If you take that variable into consideration and reapply the statistical analysis, even fewer women actually lie about their experience. The link to a PDF file summarizing the study can be found at:  www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

In the event that you bring up the similarity between accounts of sexual violence as an indicator of a false report, I would like to offer you some information about how repeat offenders typically commit their crimes.  Offenders who habitually commit sexual abuse/sexual assault (and other crimes in general) develop a method when they engage in criminal activity.  When their tactics work, they use them to create a specific pattern in order to be successful at finding victims and committing crimes against them.  That is why when women report sexual assault/abuse incidences regarding the same perpetrator, they describe their experience with very similar details. ( I have a degree in criminology, an ongoing relationship with police departments [as part of my job] and am an attorney.  Just in case you want to argue that I don't have the knowledge to offer this information).

As far as what is going on with your father at Evergreen, it is not my place to definitively determine whether the accusations are true, but I am more than free to say that I support the women who have come forward (whether publicly or anonymously) and believe they are telling the truth.  This is my right to do, and in return, I respect your right to stand behind your father (in fact, I would expect nothing less).  However, when you disrespect others and their rights to believe differently from yourself, you only seem less credible.  (Just my opinion based on my experiences with people who get defensive when trying to present their views). 

I can tell you myself what the "nameless people" had to say about their side of the story.  Without calling any individual out (again, not my place), some responded by apologizing and taking responsibility for their actions (this happened both in private and in front of other people).  Others responded with denials, excuses and an unwillingness to hear what I had to say (also in private and in front of others).  I was thankful to those who stood up and admitted their harmful behavior and disappointed with those that did not.  I was extremely upfront with my responses, and we all should have left those conversations knowing exactly where we stood with each other.

I am not even going to address your comments about the purpose of this forum.  After reading the rules, I don't see anything that says what can and cannot be discussed here, only that people should be treated respectfully which I believe I have done in this post.

Also, it is absolutely not your place to tell me (or any other survivor) how they should go about their healing process.  Merely knowing women who have been assaulted and abused and their personal path to healing, does not make you an expert on every other woman who has been a victim.  (It doesn't seem like I should have to tell you or anyone else this, but apparently I do). 

Along these lines, do not presume to tell me what will or will not help me heal from my past - it is both arrogant and inappropriate to tell a complete stranger how to deal with any abusive experience. 

While posting anonymously is one way to precipitate a lie, it is not conclusive indicator that someone is, in fact, lying.  More likely, it is used as a way for individuals to protect themselves from the disparaging comments and accusations that people like you seem compelled to convey.  I would like you to understand that I do not feel the need to defend myself to you or anyone else.  I have been truthful in everything I have posted and proving it to you is not even on my radar.  I have offered an account of my experience and people can take it or leave it.

Your comment about about my posting stirring doubts, fears and anxiety into a persons faith and relationship (which I think you are referring to spiritual abuse, although you are not clear in this) is an unsubstantiated accusation.  This type of unfounded accusation seems to be the very thing you are accusing others of asserting.  Rest assured I am not an "abuser" on any level and people should certainly not be afraid I am attempting to spiritually abuse them.  In fact, I have not mentioned religious beliefs or spirituality once in this entire post.  It would be in your best interest to allow people to determine for themselves whether they are being abused.  In addition, telling people that they are believing my post as a form of validation for their "own UNDEALT with hurts" is not something you should assert unless you have a background in psychology (even then it would be sketchy to offer that kind of observation to another person in this forum).  As I believe I made perfectly clear in my original post, that is not something an untrained person is qualified to do.

Lastly, please do not talk about me as if I am not participating in this conversation.  If you have something to say about me at least have the decency to address me directly.  I have now revealed my true identity to you, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I welcome respectful questions and comments and will answer any post that is directed to me, but I will avoid engaging with anyone who is hotheaded or inflammatory.



Hi Lisa, I want to say that I'm very sorry you were sexually abused and have been through so much in your life. My heart is heavy for you as I can empathize with that kind of pain. I was raped when I was 16. I had a hard time defining it as rape because the college kid who abused me was an ex-boyfriend. We had not ever been intimate before and this was a month after we had dated. Even though there was alcohol involved, my memories are crystal clear. There were many people around and thankfully, a friend of mine at the time was able to walk in and break up this horrific abuse. I'm also thankful this man was arrested. It was awful and not the only time I was a victim of sexual abuse. I have also known many women to make false accusations, especially in the work place, abusing their power of being a women with a strong voice. It has upset me to my core. This has been incredibly painful for our family. I am the proud daughter in-law of Mark and Kathy. I became a Christian in 1999 because Mark and his family shared Christ with me. I do not believe Suzanne's story. I knew her and that's all I'm going to mention of her. I know my family. I know my husband and you are wrong here, he is not hotheaded. My question for you, as an attorney - with your personal story of abuse, why don't you represent Suzanne as her attorney for free?
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2018, 06:52:22 am »

Lisa, I don’t think you could have stated that any better.  I was horrified reading some people on here throw around how much worse their past abuse was.  Are we comparing abuse now?  Is it now a game of who’s abuse and assault stories are worse?  What do I win As a woman if I parade my own painful experience JUST to diminish another woman’s?  Especially if I were to use words like, “what I experienced was ACTUAL assault and abuse”.  I have no words to describe how incredibly condescending that is.  As a survivor myself, I want to say to thsee people SIT DOWN.  
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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2018, 06:58:40 am »

Lisa,

I am so sorry for what happened to you.

I am sorry you were verbally abused on this forum.

I am sorry you were disrespected here.

I am sorry you came here, told your story, and were interrogated.

I am sorry you were treated unkindly here.

Quote from: Lisa
While posting anonymously is one way to precipitate a lie, it is not conclusive indicator that someone is, in fact, lying.  More likely, it is used as a way for individuals to protect themselves from the disparaging comments and accusations that people like you seem compelled to convey.  I would like you to understand that I do not feel the need to defend myself to you or anyone else.  I have been truthful in everything I have posted and proving it to you is not even on my radar.  I have offered an account of my experience and people can take it or leave it.

So true.

I find it interesting that when people are unable to articulate their point in a rational, logical way, they resort to the ad hominem. You didn't do it right. You are bitter. You won't tell us who you are, you are anonymous so you must be a coward or lying. Fill in the blank.

I am taking a self-imposed break from posting for a couple days because it's useless trying to reason with people who don't see how irrational they are, but I wanted to come on and welcome you here, thank you for telling your story, and let you know how sorry I am for what you experienced.

God bless you,
Linda



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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2018, 07:19:39 am »

Before I start, I think some common ground is finally available - Lisa your work with PTSD victims is tremendous. I've been doing music therapy for vets with PTSD for about 10 years now - I love when people take their trauma and turn it around to help others

I've avoided my credentials up to this point because it really bothers my conscience. The pharisees were quite proud of all their knowledge and special training and they constantly broadcast that. But now, in context, apparently it will be useful. I am a certified advocate for victims of sexual violence. I went through extensive training through a local womens shelter to get this and paid my own money to do it. I've also been performing music therapy along with mentoring and coaching teenage victims of sexual and domestic abuse for the last 2.5 years. I'm also married to a survivor of sexual violence AND was raised by one. I've spent more time in and around victims of sexual violence than every user on this board, combined. If, in the eyes of the users on this board, that still doesn't qualify me to have an opinion on sexual violence, then that says a lot more about you, than it does me. See, the disciples didn't have psychology degrees, neither did anyone in the church, for all of human history, and somehow the church has always been the place to go and find healing from the rape and sexual violence that has plagued humanity for all of time.

It also doesn't take a psychology degree to know that there are always 2 sides to a story. Coming onto a website and posting anonymously (initially) your story of church hurt on a site WHERE NONE OF THE OTHER PEOPLE CAN POST THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY isn't a way to get healing. It's a way to get pats on the back from people you don't know, but it's not a path to healing. All GCC pastors are barred from engaging on sites like this, and for good reason, but Proverbs tells us that a man's story seems right, until the other side is presented. All this does is fan the flames of malice that have been burgeoning inside of every user on this post, who has freely shared all their stories of hurts and abuse without a single critical question, or alternate story. I'm confident most Christian Psychologists would agree with me that this isn't healthy or RIGHT. My own wife shared her story on Suzanne's FB page and got exactly zero pats on the back from anyone on this board, and neither did Andrea, who posted her story yesterday. Which tells me that unless a person share's a story of spiritual abuse at the hands of an ECC pastor, they're not welcome to share their stories at all, which once again tells me all I need to know about the folks on this board.

Our issues here are clearly Christian vs. non-Christian. The Bible vs. other forms of training. We're speaking different languages folks. I clearly the believe that the Church, Christ-following believers and the best-selling book in all of human history has always been enough to bring lasting healing and change to victims of any kind of abuse. I think the devil would love for us to think that we no longer need the Bible to find healing, that there are other (better?) places to get healing, that the church isn't safe, that we can all safely "define" our own form of "abuse" without any negative repercussions whatsoever. This is the most depressed, anxious, suicidal, mentally ill generation on record - I think one of the reason why is that people, for the first time in a long time, are looking outside the Christian church to find healing, and it's clearly not working and is ALSO hurting innocent people like my parents, who have spent their lives loving and caring for hurting people.

You know what the craziest part is? I was at the Plymouth church, as a youth leader, right around the time this was all happening to you. Since none of the pastors there (including John) are able to defend themselves can I just say I had the opposite experience with all of them than the one you describe here? I know that's not worth much. It's clear you were hurt, but since we can't hear ANYONE else's story besides yours (and how that doesn't bother you, I will never understand), I'd like to state for the people that can't defend themselves that I always found them to be loving, kind, imperfect, non-abusive people.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 07:36:27 am by jeromydaviddarling » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2018, 07:39:11 am »

Lisa,

Welcome to the forum.

As a sexual abuse victim myself (I was only 13 when my abuse from a friend's uncle occurred), I wanted to tell you how sorry I am that you endured the abuse you did. Even more heartbreaking and appalling was the emotional and spiritual abuse you experienced at the hands of your "pastor".

I admire greatly your courage in telling your story and risking further shame, discredit, and abuse.

May you find a safe place here.

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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2018, 07:46:26 am »

Lisa, I don’t think you could have stated that any better.  I was horrified reading some people on here throw around how much worse their past abuse was.  Are we comparing abuse now?  Is it now a game of who’s abuse and assault stories are worse?  What do I win As a woman if I parade my own painful experience JUST to diminish another woman’s?  Especially if I were to use words like, “what I experienced was ACTUAL assault and abuse”.  I have no words to describe how incredibly condescending that is.  As a survivor myself, I want to say to thsee people SIT DOWN.  

Yuck, who said that? I missed that😢
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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2018, 07:49:30 am »

Lisa,

I am so sorry for what happened to you.

I am sorry you were verbally abused on this forum.

I am sorry you were disrespected here.

I am sorry you came here, told your story, and were interrogated.

I am sorry you were treated unkindly here.

Quote from: Lisa
While posting anonymously is one way to precipitate a lie, it is not conclusive indicator that someone is, in fact, lying.  More likely, it is used as a way for individuals to protect themselves from the disparaging comments and accusations that people like you seem compelled to convey.  I would like you to understand that I do not feel the need to defend myself to you or anyone else.  I have been truthful in everything I have posted and proving it to you is not even on my radar.  I have offered an account of my experience and people can take it or leave it.

So true.

I find it interesting that when people are unable to articulate their point in a rational, logical way, they resort to the ad hominem. You didn't do it right. You are bitter. You won't tell us who you are, you are anonymous so you must be a coward or lying. Fill in the blank.

I am taking a self-imposed break from posting for a couple days because it's useless trying to reason with people who don't see how irrational they are, but I wanted to come on and welcome you here, thank you for telling your story, and let you know how sorry I am for what you experienced.

God bless you,
Linda





Who told her she didn't do it right? Who called her a coward? Who told her she lied?
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« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2018, 07:59:44 am »

Lisa, thanks for sharing.  I’m sorry for your pain and am amazed at your strength.  Wow. 
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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2018, 09:05:07 am »

Guys does no one here stop and think "Hmmm, someone posting anonymously, their side of the story - I wonder what the nameless people they're referring to would have to say about their side of the story?" This is not the format or place to be posting these stories and it hurts other victims of sexual abuse (like my own mother and wife) who have boldly come forward with their faces and their lives and found freedom, healing, peace, love, grace and understanding in the same church and around the same people. Lisa we have no way of knowing if you're making this all up, if you are who you say you are, nothing. We have nothing to go off of. If all these things really happened to you (before and after the church) this kind of posting will not bring you any healing or peace whatsoever. It will continue to let the people to feel hurt and abused you, abuse you over and over again and it allows people to abdicate their own personal responsibility in all the relationships that have been burned. Just because you read a story on the internet, doesn't mean it's true. It's this kind of anonymous posting that allows people spread lie after lie, with no consequence. It just stirs doubts and fears and anxieties into every corner of a persons faith and relationship, which according this very website, is now defined as abusing another person.

As a rule, I don't engage with people who are unable to have an emotionally mature conversation, as it is a waste of my time and energy.  However, in this situation I am putting aside my usual stance to give you some information that I hope may be of use to you. 

My name is Lisa Burkett.  The only reason I didn't originally post as myself was because I was trying to avoid calling out people involved in my situation.  They already know who they are and I have told all of them personally how their actions have affected my life. 

As far as your accusation that I did not "boldly coming forward" as a survivor of sexual abuse and sexual assault, you are greatly misinformed.  I was honest and open with my past experiences back when I was a EC member and continue to be today. In fact, I founded an organization five years ago that trains PTSD service dogs for first responders.  As part of my willingness to help others who have experienced trauma, I have publicly (in my business plan, on our website, in presentations I have made, and at public events) and privately shared my story with others who have PTSD, as well as the general public.  As far as EC goes, in addition to my friends, I shared my story with five pastors either in a counseling setting or as a part of my attempt to hold them responsible for their lack of accountability to each other and to the congregation at large. 

Regarding women fabricating stories about sexual assault:   I would like to share some statistics with you.  A government funded research study found that approximately 63% of women DO NOT report incidences of sexual assault to the police.  In addition, the percentage of women who report false accounts of sexual violence are 2-7%.  Based on those statistics, if 100 women came forward, at the MOST 2 - 7 of them would be reporting a false claim.  In addition, one of the reason a report is classified as false is that the victim did not come forward at the time (which can be for many other reasons than the report being untrue).  If you take that variable into consideration and reapply the statistical analysis, even fewer women actually lie about their experience. The link to a PDF file summarizing the study can be found at:  www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

In the event that you bring up the similarity between accounts of sexual violence as an indicator of a false report, I would like to offer you some information about how repeat offenders typically commit their crimes.  Offenders who habitually commit sexual abuse/sexual assault (and other crimes in general) develop a method when they engage in criminal activity.  When their tactics work, they use them to create a specific pattern in order to be successful at finding victims and committing crimes against them.  That is why when women report sexual assault/abuse incidences regarding the same perpetrator, they describe their experience with very similar details. ( I have a degree in criminology, an ongoing relationship with police departments [as part of my job] and am an attorney.  Just in case you want to argue that I don't have the knowledge to offer this information).

As far as what is going on with your father at Evergreen, it is not my place to definitively determine whether the accusations are true, but I am more than free to say that I support the women who have come forward (whether publicly or anonymously) and believe they are telling the truth.  This is my right to do, and in return, I respect your right to stand behind your father (in fact, I would expect nothing less).  However, when you disrespect others and their rights to believe differently from yourself, you only seem less credible.  (Just my opinion based on my experiences with people who get defensive when trying to present their views). 

I can tell you myself what the "nameless people" had to say about their side of the story.  Without calling any individual out (again, not my place), some responded by apologizing and taking responsibility for their actions (this happened both in private and in front of other people).  Others responded with denials, excuses and an unwillingness to hear what I had to say (also in private and in front of others).  I was thankful to those who stood up and admitted their harmful behavior and disappointed with those that did not.  I was extremely upfront with my responses, and we all should have left those conversations knowing exactly where we stood with each other.

I am not even going to address your comments about the purpose of this forum.  After reading the rules, I don't see anything that says what can and cannot be discussed here, only that people should be treated respectfully which I believe I have done in this post.

Also, it is absolutely not your place to tell me (or any other survivor) how they should go about their healing process.  Merely knowing women who have been assaulted and abused and their personal path to healing, does not make you an expert on every other woman who has been a victim.  (It doesn't seem like I should have to tell you or anyone else this, but apparently I do). 

Along these lines, do not presume to tell me what will or will not help me heal from my past - it is both arrogant and inappropriate to tell a complete stranger how to deal with any abusive experience. 

While posting anonymously is one way to precipitate a lie, it is not conclusive indicator that someone is, in fact, lying.  More likely, it is used as a way for individuals to protect themselves from the disparaging comments and accusations that people like you seem compelled to convey.  I would like you to understand that I do not feel the need to defend myself to you or anyone else.  I have been truthful in everything I have posted and proving it to you is not even on my radar.  I have offered an account of my experience and people can take it or leave it.

Your comment about about my posting stirring doubts, fears and anxiety into a persons faith and relationship (which I think you are referring to spiritual abuse, although you are not clear in this) is an unsubstantiated accusation.  This type of unfounded accusation seems to be the very thing you are accusing others of asserting.  Rest assured I am not an "abuser" on any level and people should certainly not be afraid I am attempting to spiritually abuse them.  In fact, I have not mentioned religious beliefs or spirituality once in this entire post.  It would be in your best interest to allow people to determine for themselves whether they are being abused.  In addition, telling people that they are believing my post as a form of validation for their "own UNDEALT with hurts" is not something you should assert unless you have a background in psychology (even then it would be sketchy to offer that kind of observation to another person in this forum).  As I believe I made perfectly clear in my original post, that is not something an untrained person is qualified to do.

Lastly, please do not talk about me as if I am not participating in this conversation.  If you have something to say about me at least have the decency to address me directly.  I have now revealed my true identity to you, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I welcome respectful questions and comments and will answer any post that is directed to me, but I will avoid engaging with anyone who is hotheaded or inflammatory.



Hi Lisa, I want to say that I'm very sorry you were sexually abused and have been through so much in your life. My heart is heavy for you as I can empathize with that kind of pain. I was raped when I was 16. I had a hard time defining it as rape because the college kid who abused me was an ex-boyfriend. We had not ever been intimate before and this was a month after we had dated. Even though there was alcohol involved, my memories are crystal clear. There were many people around and thankfully, a friend of mine at the time was able to walk in and break up this horrific abuse. I'm also thankful this man was arrested. It was awful and not the only time I was a victim of sexual abuse. I have also known many women to make false accusations, especially in the work place, abusing their power of being a women with a strong voice. It has upset me to my core. This has been incredibly painful for our family. I am the proud daughter in-law of Mark and Kathy. I became a Christian in 1999 because Mark and his family shared Christ with me. I do not believe Suzanne's story. I knew her and that's all I'm going to mention of her. I know my family. I know my husband and you are wrong here, he is not hotheaded. My question for you, as an attorney - with your personal story of abuse, why don't you represent Suzanne as her attorney for free?

Hi Gretchen. I, too, am very sorry for the sexual assault you experienced.  No woman should have to go through that and I am glad you have the support you need to deal with the trauma you have suffered.  Thank you for sharing your story so publicly - it is a very brave and difficult thing to do.  I completely respect your right to believe in your family and would never tell you (or anyone else) that it was the wrong thing to do.  I believe differently, but that doesn't automatically make me wrong.   As far as the attorney question goes, I am not currently practicing because I am running my non-profit organization.  I'm also not sure why you asked the question about representing Suzanne.  Do you think that because I believe her I should represent her?  And for free?  Or because I was abused I should represent other victims of abuse?  If you want to clarify your question, I would be happy to answer it.
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2018, 10:39:27 pm »

I relate to a lot of Lisa’s experience.  Thank you for sharing it. It helps me to see it, identify with themes in it, and to recognize how horribly people (myself included) have been treated.
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Huldah
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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2021, 10:47:17 am »

Many months later, the pastor's wife told me that the reason she had backed away was that she hadn't believed I had been sexually assaulted.  She said she didn't tell me before because she thought she would be talking to a fool, which I assume meant that I wasn't a true believer.  She also said that she had prayed to God to show her that I had been assaulted and He hadn't done it, which indicated I was lying about what happened.  I felt like I was immersed in some surreal universe where God was accusing me of lying.  The only conclusions I could draw were that God was lying, she was lying or it hadn't happened.  None of which made any sense to me.  

I believe it was at that point where my already weak faith was destroyed.  (Emphasis added.)

For some reason I didn't see this thread at the time it was posted. I only recently discovered it.

First, Lisa, if by any chance you ever stop back to read here: I'm so sorry for everything that happened to you, and sorrier still that you were bullied on this forum when you came here to share your experience.

Second, this shows once again how a church can be doctrinally sound in its essentials, but terribly off base in its minor teachings and practices. Should we ever draw solid conclusions about someone else's experience, just because God refuses to answer a prayer in the way we want Him to? This seems like a very skewed way to determine whether or not something is true.

I don't know how widespread this kind of thinking was at Evergreen. Maybe it was just a one-off. I see it as possibly part of a larger pattern in GCx churches, because there was definitely a belief at Solid Rock that the pastors had special insight from God when counseling church members. And if it's from God, then it can't be challenged, right?

Pattern or not, it's troubling that a pastor's wife, whose position gives her a degree of influence and credibility, would reject someone's account of a serious crime, based solely on God's "failure" to prove it to her satisfaction within her timeline.
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